• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Smash Wii U Is it possible for 3v3 and 4v4 Tourneys?

Pippu

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 7, 2015
Messages
109
Location
West Texas
NNID
BaffDurtum
3DS FC
4468-1508-6788
It's been on my mind lately that it could happen with the new 8 player smash option

I havent seen a thread that talks about how they could be yet so I'd be interested in a discussion on how it could work/play out plus stages that would be legal and whatnot
 

S0 B00sted

Smash Cadet
Premium
Joined
Oct 29, 2014
Messages
37
It might be interesting to see Smash treated more like games such as LoL and CoD where there are teams of ~4.
 

Pippu

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 7, 2015
Messages
109
Location
West Texas
NNID
BaffDurtum
3DS FC
4468-1508-6788
The teamwork options would defiantly be interesting, and this could open up new ways for crew battles as well.
 

KoRLumen

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 28, 2010
Messages
247
Location
Calgary
NNID
KoRLumen
3DS FC
3437-3066-8679
I wonder if they'd keep the team attack on for that though. For large stages, it probably wouldn't be a problem, but... I would advocate against it.
 

Pippu

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 7, 2015
Messages
109
Location
West Texas
NNID
BaffDurtum
3DS FC
4468-1508-6788
There will have to be some experimentation with these. See what works and what doesn't. I would like to see a new meta in the sm4sh scene with these new tourneys. This opens up a lot of options and i'd like to see it
 

CrazyPerson

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 3, 2015
Messages
436
I like the idea a lot. Question is are enough teams going to be interested in any given region to make it worth while?
 

Duck SMASH!

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 5, 2015
Messages
418
Location
Ontario, Canada
NNID
C.Piglet
This sounds like a lot of fun. But I think it's going to be difficult to implement in any serious tournament.
I mean, one we'd have to limit characters to 2 stocks for sure... and best out of 3. If you disagree, look at how Sm4sh doubles at Apex went.
team attack off would remove a ton of the risk around team play and make it way too easy for some stupid tactics, like guarding a Robin or samus constantly charging up projectiles or something like that. It should stay.
 

J.P

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 17, 2015
Messages
396
NNID
150195
3DS FC
2466-2692-8715
Imo 4v4 isn't a competitive game. Too many chaos even on large stages, non existent team coordination and overall uncompetitive environment. However, if you really want to try a 4v4 tourney, I would recommend team attack off because of how chaotic the game is.
 

CrazyPerson

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 3, 2015
Messages
436
Imo 4v4 isn't a competitive game. Too many chaos even on large stages, non existent team coordination and overall uncompetitive environment. However, if you really want to try a 4v4 tourney, I would recommend team attack off because of how chaotic the game is.
There would be a lot of chaos.... but I suspect some top teams would learn to adapt to it and work together quicker.

It is new so it would take time to catch on... but I'd love to see it.

I will never be good enough to be a competitive player... but would be nice to see the best wit that.
 

J.P

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 17, 2015
Messages
396
NNID
150195
3DS FC
2466-2692-8715
There would be a lot of chaos.... but I suspect some top teams would learn to adapt to it and work together quicker.

It is new so it would take time to catch on... but I'd love to see it.

I will never be good enough to be a competitive player... but would be nice to see the best wit that.
If I recall correctly 4 v 4 was already tried before and most people shared my opinion. But I think 3 v 3 could be doable following your logic ^_^
 

UltimateXsniper

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 31, 2014
Messages
803
Location
Virginia
3DS FC
5198-2617-9626
3v3 and 4v4 would be interesting for tournament play. Would be centered much more on team play obviously. It will be chaotic but I would still love to see it happen.
 

Sean²

Smash Capitalist
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
1,657
Switch FC
SW-7479-8539-5283
It might be interesting to see Smash treated more like games such as LoL and CoD where there are teams of ~4.
I always played around with the idea of trying to make it like DotA using character bans and alternating character picks. Using stages like Temple and Palutena's Temple, maybe creating some large neutral custom stages. Characters could be classified as support/tanks/damage, etc.

I'm not sure of the results that would be produced, or if it would result in a campfest, but I feel as if a lot of teamwork and strategy could be used - making an interesting variation on the game we know and love.
 

Gidy

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 10, 2014
Messages
1,638
Location
Michigan
NNID
I-Gidy-I
3DS FC
0834-3126-6726
3v3 sounds more competitive than 4v4. It seems a lot more feasible especially since we have stages like Pyro sphere now.
 

Cenizas

The Zelda We Need, But Not the One We Deserve
Joined
Dec 28, 2014
Messages
1,569
Location
Gaylordsville Baptist Church, NY
3DS FC
1032-1809-6196
I like the idea 4v4 since teamwork and chemistry between teammates are extra factors added into mix of how a match can play out, even more so than doubles, obviously. It would be interesting as well to see how much a character's viability may differ between singles and the 4v4 meta.
 

Ultrashroomz

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 27, 2014
Messages
259
It definitely works as a nice side event.

Whether it'll work as something as a main event, we might have to experiment more.
 

Octagon

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 24, 2014
Messages
354
Location
Wisconsin
NNID
Firefly62813
3DS FC
4768-7531-8428
My friends and i have had a ton of 3v3 and 4v4 team matches and omg they are so much fun. The action that goes on is literally crazy, you could look at a 1v1 going on in the corner or a 3v1 in the other corner and its amazing to watch. If these were used in tournaments i'm sure a lotta people would watch and enjoy themselves a ton
 

Artryuu

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 19, 2014
Messages
296
Location
Canada
NNID
Artryuu
3DS FC
5086-2093-6692
There's going to be a local 4v4 tourney near me and I'm planning to attend. The rules there are 3 stocks, team attack on, but there's a catch. Each team chooses who their damsel is and the rest are knights that defend the damsel or try to knock out the other damsel :p. The game ends when the damsel of respective teams is knocked out. Should be interesting, can't wait to attend it.
 
Last edited:

Pippu

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 7, 2015
Messages
109
Location
West Texas
NNID
BaffDurtum
3DS FC
4468-1508-6788
There's going to be a local 4v4 tourney near me and I'm planning to attend. The rules there are 3 stocks, team attack on, but there's a catch. Each team chooses who their damsel is and the rest are knights that defend the damsel or try to knock out the other damsel :p. The game ends when the damsel of respective teams is knocked out. Should be interesting, can't wait to attend it.

That sounds hella fun and super strategic. Is the damsel allowed to fight or do they just have to stand there and act pretty?
Are the damsels female only or can it be any character?
 

Artryuu

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 19, 2014
Messages
296
Location
Canada
NNID
Artryuu
3DS FC
5086-2093-6692
Damsels are allowed to fight, but it isn't recommended for them to look for the fights, yeah they can be any character they don't have to specifically be female characters xD. Hopefully Big tournaments take 4 v 4 , or 3 v 3 in consideration, they are hella fun. ^.^
 

Pippu

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 7, 2015
Messages
109
Location
West Texas
NNID
BaffDurtum
3DS FC
4468-1508-6788
I can only imagine the teams of the damsel type 4v4.
 

Talazala

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 11, 2008
Messages
422
Location
Philly
There's going to be a local 4v4 tourney near me and I'm planning to attend. The rules there are 3 stocks, team attack on, but there's a catch. Each team chooses who their damsel is and the rest are knights that defend the damsel or try to knock out the other damsel :p. The game ends when the damsel of respective teams is knocked out. Should be interesting, can't wait to attend it.
I'm familiar with the idea, but where I am people refer to the damsel as the "MVP". I've had some ideas for a 4v4 where players have different numbers of stocks, and start in a number of designated locations.

The damsels or MVPs would have 3 stocks, being the core player. When an MVP is defeated permanently, the game is over. The MVP is not allowed to TAKE stocks, but is allowed to GIVE stocks.

Then there would be 2 "assistants" players, who have 2 stock each. These two have the job of supplying the MVP with a steady support for however long they can, by backing up the MVP and taking stocks from the other team. Assistants cannot TAKE or GIVE stocks.

The last player would be the "beserker", who only has 1 stock. The job of the beserker is to do as much damage with his one stock as possible, or stay alive as long as he can through the entire match. The beserker is the only player allowed to TAKE stocks.

Ideally, this is how I would imagine a match going:

the match starts off with 4v4. the assistants and beserkers each remove the proper number of stocks from themselves. Then, the players take their positions on the various legal positions on the stage. The match starts at a designated time, let's say 7:40.

Opening 4v4
This is the point in the game where beserker can have the greatest impact on the game, possibly setting the game for or against their favor.

Opening Strategy 1
The teams rush toward eachother as in a standard 4v4 set up. Your team's beserker has plans to immediately rush the other MVP, and try to deal large swaths of damage to him and possibly take an early cheap stock. Your MVP and assistants go vs the other team in a mixed 1v1 and 3v3 setting. The beserker will jump in at any time if he can get an easy hit and possibly put the other MVP is significant danger.

Counter-strategy 1
The other team realizes this, and can do any of the following:
-Pick a very slippery, evasive character and play keep-away, foiling your beserker's plan.
-Have a very abusive beserker/assistant combination. Basically, their beserker and assistants will leave their MVP and try to KO your MVP, because they believe they can do it faster due to their superior 3v1 abilities.

Essentially, the idea to this counter strategy is that their MVP will waste his aggressor's time, put them out of position, and slowly whittle them down.

Opening Strategy 2 (Similar to counter-strategy 1)
Your MVP has strong defensive and long range utility. The assistants and beserkers will try to 1v1 each of the other team members.
Situations:
1. If the other team tries to bum rush your MVP, your MVP will use an ability to either knock them back or set them in retreating position. Your team will then go in to deal some punishment. The point of this strategy would be to ensure that the net damage the opponent team receives is greater than the net damage your team receives. This will put your MVP in danger, but this strategy relies on giving the other team higher net damage, so that your team will have more stocks in the end game.
2. If the other team simply 1v1s each of your players, then that works as well.
For this strategy, you must make sure that your team composition can at least somewhat handle both situations.

Counter-strategy 2
the opponent team has realized your team is playing strategy 2.
-They simply choose a very strong 4x 1v1 team, and try to outplay you 1v1. Their goal is to keep you 1v1ing at all time, and prevent any 2v1 situations, and they do this by having 4 fast-pressure characters that can quickly punish their 1v1 opponent if they start straying.

MVP/beserker position swap strategy
Basically the same as strategy 1, but your MVP is the aggressive one, trying to clean out the beserker's 1 stock and turn the game into a 4v3.

Counter swap strategy
-The other team realizes this and will elevate their Beserker to "MVP status" temporarily to deal with the threat.
-Or they could let your team go after their beserker, allowing him to deal whatever damage he can while the rest of their team piles on damage on you from the side without prejudice. This is especially dangerous because the beserker will be sacrificing himself to deal tons of damage to your team.


4v4 to 3v3 transition
At some point the beserkers will be KOed (hopefully) an the game will turn into a 3v3, consisting of the MVPs and their assistants. This would be the phase of the game where assistants will have their greatest impact.

3v3 is a lot closer to 2v2 than 4v4 I believe. It's hard to come up with strategies because making power plays at this time is riskier and the MVP will have less stocks to mess around with. Still strategies still can be devised.

2v2 and 1v1 endgame
By now one of the assistants is permanently gone and only the MVP and one assistant is left. This will play out like a regular 2v2, eventually boiling down to a 2v1 or a victory for one of the teams. It may even turn into a 1v1, as the MVPs naturally have more stocks and the remaining assistants would have high % and may easily be finished off.


There you have it, a prototype for an ideal 4v4! It's a bit opener heavy, but opening strategies do tend to dictate non- 1v1 strategy games.
-------


Basically, there is a lot of strategy/rules that can be developed for 4v4.
That's just something I came up with.
 
Last edited:

Jiggly

Drop the mic, cause these fools sleeping on me
Joined
Apr 17, 2014
Messages
2,021
Location
The FBI Surveillance Van outside your house.
NNID
Jiggly101
Imo 4v4 isn't a competitive game. Too many chaos even on large stages, non existent team coordination and overall uncompetitive environment. However, if you really want to try a 4v4 tourney, I would recommend team attack off because of how chaotic the game is.
VGBC has streamed some 4v4 tournaments, it wasn't chaotic for the players. It wasn't a button mashing tournament, it flowed with great teams just like 2v2, but it's harder to watch due to multiple things happening at once.

I loved the 4v4 matches I watched, they were a lot of fun to watch.
 

Casval

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 16, 2015
Messages
242
Location
Chicago
NNID
RX-104
There you have it, a prototype for an ideal 4v4! It's a bit opener heavy, but opening strategies do tend to dictate non- 1v1 strategy games.
-------


Basically, there is a lot of strategy/rules that can be developed for 4v4.
That's just something I came up with.
That sounds awesome. Now I want to do it. If only I had seven friends.
 

16bit

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 7, 2014
Messages
189
Location
Long Island, New York
NNID
imsl1msh4dy
3DS FC
3136-7059-5966
I like this idea, as I've seen a few tournaments do it and have it turn out relatively well. It's still new, so it will take a while to adapt to it, so it would be most ideal to have the metagame settle before this happened, though.
 

Pippu

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 7, 2015
Messages
109
Location
West Texas
NNID
BaffDurtum
3DS FC
4468-1508-6788
Going to talk to the TO of the locals I go to to see if we can implemnt the mvp type game in.
It seems really fun and well thought out and I think he'll go through with it


I also just really want to try this out because I don't have eight friends
 
Top Bottom