Is it even possible to patch out Wavedashing?

[Deleted member]

Disable Wavedash (1.02) achilles1515
C2099D70 00000004
80830070 2C0400EC
40820010 38800000
908300E4 4E800020
7C0802A6 00000000

Removes wavedashing while keeping Melee's Air Dodge intact.

 

[zankyou]

DISCLAIMER This isn't a thread to discuss if wavedashing is good or bad for the game, or opinions on it, or why I would want this. It's to discuss the possibility of being able to remove it via codes or mods.

Is it theoretically possible to mod wavedashing out of the game while keeping directional air-dodging intact?

What would you expect to happen if a person airdodges into the ground?

 

[CAUP]

I would think yes by reducing the momentum of impact or making it impossible to land during the first frames of air dodge.

 

[Deleted member]

What would you expect to happen if a person airdodges into the ground?

For you to not be condscending?

I would think yes by reducing the momentum of impact or making it impossible to land during the first frames of air dodge.

Interesting.

 

[zankyou]

For you to not be condscending?

Interesting.

Unnecessarily defensive. Its a question that needs to be addressed. Wavedashing is a consequence of airdodging into the ground. you have to replace it with something.

 

[Doq]

What would you expect to happen if a person airdodges into the ground?

Simple. They just go into landing animation, but with no slide.

 

[SinsOfApathy]

What would you expect to happen if a person airdodges into the ground?

Stay in the airdodge state above ground, but stay in that state half the time you'd do it from air dodging and staying airborne.

 

[CeLL]

The answer is yes lol

This quickly turned into a discussion on the followup question of how without actually answering the original question.

 

[SinsOfApathy]

The answer is yes lol

This quickly turned into a discussion on the followup question of how without actually answering the original question.

How is half of the implementation. If someone asks, "Can you add characters to the roster?" or something equally outlandish, it's entirely possible, but we don't know how.

 

[Deleted member]

So now that people have come up with ideas for this, I have another question. Would it be difficult to create a mod or code or whichever? I wouldn't mind throwing a donation at someone for it.

The reason for this being is I plan on having a casual mod for Melee that makes the game less about additional inputs to make the skill gap at higher and mid levels closer to each other.

 

[Charmilio]

20XX already has the option for automatic L cancelling, and it's an easily findable code, so you're already pretty close.

Perhaps modifying friction? Though I can't see changing that without a lot of unintended side effects, such as ASDI.

 

[Godwin_Point]

I know I'm not really on topic, but it's just to say something about your "casual mod" idea.
Is it a mod to make the game more fun when you're playing with casuals, so that they don't feel as "cheated" by your techskill? Or do you see it as a way to help newcommer to transition to the real melee by lowering the entry barrier at first?

Assuming it's the second one, I'm just giving an opinion, don't take it as an aggression : o)
I really don't think that wavedash is that technical or difficult to learn, and I don't think it really creates a barrier between low and mid level player.

Wavedash is just a little slide, it doesnt give you improved survivability, and won't give much of an advantage before you know when you can use it.
However, If you take it out of the game, and let the player learn "melee without wavedash", It'll be harder for them to adapt later, because they will have learned a different neutral game.

If you think about L cancel for exemple : There's never a single instance when you don't want to L cancel. So the training wheel let you play with the combo that are usefull(drill shine and stuff) without having to practice the difficult timming. It kinda make sense in a "transitional mod", if you wan't to give them a preview of "what you can do" and let them access the neutral game without going throught the "technical gate" of l cancel.

I think it's important to learn early on what wavedashes bring to the game, otherwise you'll have a wrong perception of each characters abillities and zone of agression, and that will make it more difficult to transition into the real game.

+ The real technical stuff in melee would be DI/SDI, would you plan to get rid of it in your mod?
If you make it "auto survival DI, that'll make the player of your mod used to always go for the same punish(since they'll get used to the same trajectory everytime) but if you get rid of DI completly, they'll die really early from knee or sheik fair etc...

 

[Achilles1515]

Disable Wavedash Air Dodge Seizures Replace Wavedashing (1.02)
C2099D70 00000003
80830070 2C0400EC
40820008 4E800020
7C0802A6 00000000

Lol...it's funny. Otherwise just remove velocity when landing.

 

[Deleted member]

I know I'm not really on topic, but it's just to say something about your "casual mod" idea.
Is it a mod to make the game more fun when you're playing with casuals, so that they don't feel as "cheated" by your techskill? Or do you see it as a way to help newcommer to transition to the real melee by lowering the entry barrier at first?

Assuming it's the second one, I'm just giving an opinion, don't take it as an aggression : o)
I really don't think that wavedash is that technical or difficult to learn, and I don't think it really creates a barrier between low and mid level player.

Wavedash is just a little slide, it doesnt give you improved survivability, and won't give much of an advantage before you know when you can use it.
However, If you take it out of the game, and let the player learn "melee without wavedash", It'll be harder for them to adapt later, because they will have learned a different neutral game.

If you think about L cancel for exemple : There's never a single instance when you don't want to L cancel. So the training wheel let you play with the combo that are usefull(drill shine and stuff) without having to practice the difficult timming. It kinda make sense in a "transitional mod", if you wan't to give them a preview of "what you can do" and let them access the neutral game without going throught the "technical gate" of l cancel.

I think it's important to learn early on what wavedashes bring to the game, otherwise you'll have a wrong perception of each characters abillities and zone of agression, and that will make it more difficult to transition into the real game.

+ The real technical stuff in melee would be DI/SDI, would you plan to get rid of it in your mod?
If you make it "auto survival DI, that'll make the player of your mod used to always go for the same punish(since they'll get used to the same trajectory everytime) but if you get rid of DI completly, they'll die really early from knee or sheik fair etc...

I respect your view, but if we're getting into why I'm doing this or my views on this, I'll go ahead and express in detail why I want this.

There are a few reasons I do not care for Wave Dashing.

1. It is unintentional, although Sakurai knew of it it's existence, it was still unintentional. Normally I don't mind unintentional stuff being in a game, but my next part explains why I do for this particular exploit.

2. Wave Dashing completely changes the way the game is played. It becomes more about doing this input for spacing then it is playing Super Smash Bros. the way it was intended to be played, and the way everyone would play if this exploit of physics wasn't found. It was removed intentionally with Brawl because it literally does change the entire landscape of the game. The slide does in-fact give you a pure advantage over someone who doesn't use it. It lets you face one direction and move, thus keeping your "safety" mid-battle.

I personally feel Wave Dashing cheapens the experience of Smash Bros because you either do this mechanic or don't, and if you don't, you're literally lowering your chances to "win" against those who do. I don't like this form of competitiveness since it's an exploit and not a part of the game design.

3. Wave Dashing input is actually pretty bad on your hands, it's been shown how some top Melee players suffer injuries to their hands, and with the way Wave Dashing has your hands move and the way you grip the controller whilst doing this, it taxes your hands more.

It may not seem like a big deal to most people, but because this is an exploit of the game's physics and dynamically changes the game into something different, and something I don't care for, I'd rather not risk injury for extended use of this mechanic.

-

So with that said, I want to create a modification of Melee where some things like L-Cancelling and Wave Dashing aren't a thing (removal of wave dashing and auto L-Cancelling). This may just be for me and the people I play with in person, but I have no intention of playing Melee competitively due to Wave Dashing. It don't like it at all. I'm sure there are others out there that probably feel the same way, even if they are the minority it'd be a fun alternative for us who don't want to Wave Dash.

 

[Deleted member]

Disable Wavedash Air Dodge Seizures Replace Wavedashing (1.02)
C2099D70 00000003
80830070 2C0400EC
40820008 4E800020
7C0802A6 00000000

Lol...it's funny. Otherwise just remove velocity when landing.

So the code...works!

It does cause you to bounce a bit, not sure if it's possible to polish this, but from my testing in the video it gets the job done despite it looking a bit jank. Thanks!

 

[Godwin_Point]

Oh okay I can see what you mean : o)
Most of my post was mostly a "warning" in case your intention was to create a "gateway mod" for casual to get into competitive smash(since the absence of WD may have caused problem for them later)

But your project seems to be more along the line of "shield breaker", like a different game entierely : o)

As for the janky effect well...In a game where there's no WD, nobody will try to airdodge to the ground intentionaly, so that's probably okay

 

[Achilles1515]

Somewhat better.

EDIT: see below

 

[Achilles1515]

Ignore Above Post

C2099D70 00000004
80830070 2C0400EC
40820010 38800000
908300E4 4E800020
7C0802A6 00000000

 

[Aerros11]

Oh okay I can see what you mean : o)
Most of my post was mostly a "warning" in case your intention was to create a "gateway mod" for casual to get into competitive smash(since the absence of WD may have caused problem for them later)

But your project seems to be more along the line of "shield breaker", like a different game entierely : o)

As for the janky effect well...In a game where there's no WD, nobody will try to airdodge to the ground intentionaly, so that's probably okay

>____>'|l

I would just like to clarify that shield breaker adds global techniques; it doesn't remove any.

 

[Godwin_Point]

I know that don't worry ! I was refering to the status of the game
It's a mod to create a different version of the game on its own, and not a "training mode" to introduce people to melee