Is hitstun lower or base knockback higher?

[Quillion]

I know I shouldn't believe everything SmashWiki says because it's been slow to update and thus it's generally out of date with information, but since it's been a few months since Smash 3DS first released, they seem pretty confident in saying that it's base knockback that limits combos to u-tilt spam and/or 2 attacks. As far as I know, the hitstun multiplier is exactly like Melee's and Brawl's, but Smash 4 doesn't have the 13-frame "hitstun cap" that Brawl did. You can correct me if I'm wrong.

If they're wrong about this, I'll try to change it myself, though I hope others will try to improve SmashWiki, too.

 

[Tonzura Koite]

Less base knockback would be nice.
But more shieldstun would be the best for an overall more offensive game. I think that's really the thing people need to talk more about. It's really difficult to apply pressure when your opponent can just shield and suddenly gain the offensive advantage.

With more shieldstun (varying values for attacks), we can have more attacks that are actually safe for pressure/pokes as well as unsafe risk v reward moves. I think this addition would work well with Sm4sh's high shield degeneration and encourage more creative defenses. Grabbing anything out of shield or shielding solely to bait a grab seems like a bizarre reversal pf what a shield is supposed to be, a defensive measure- not a key offensive tool.

 

[Raijinken]

To this day, the only thing I feel could use tweaking would be slightly closer blast-lines.

I could support shieldstun for more pressure, but the last thing I want is for defense to fall out of validity. I feel similar about hitstun. If you simply increase hitstun too much, then certain characters will soar in popularity and power as they have more innate combo options due to their speed and attack style. You'd end up leaving slow characters in the dust again, unless hitstun was cranked up to Brawl Minus levels, which was excessive. Reduced base knockback is an option I'm more open to, though again, it can easily push certain characters into favor just through feasibility, and would leave others out (anyone with high endlag, in this case).

Now, if Nandai and Sakurai want to pursue this and give characters options to use it on a level playing field, by all means, that would be sweet. But I personally lean towards wanting character balance more than an aggro-centric game.

 

[Quillion]

To this day, the only thing I feel could use tweaking would be slightly closer blast-lines.

I could support shieldstun for more pressure, but the last thing I want is for defense to fall out of validity. I feel similar about hitstun. If you simply increase hitstun too much, then certain characters will soar in popularity and power as they have more innate combo options due to their speed and attack style. You'd end up leaving slow characters in the dust again, unless hitstun was cranked up to Brawl Minus levels, which was excessive. Reduced base knockback is an option I'm more open to, though again, it can easily push certain characters into favor just through feasibility, and would leave others out (anyone with high endlag, in this case).

Now, if Nandai and Sakurai want to pursue this and give characters options to use it on a level playing field, by all means, that would be sweet. But I personally lean towards wanting character balance more than an aggro-centric game.

We know that the first balance patch they put out edited some of the base knockback values on some moves. I think that's both more feasible and more realistic than editing the core hitstun multiplier.

 

[Roukiske]

I feel more hitstun would be nice. Knockback to me is okay as I see most of the cast running fairly fast and can probably catch opponents who are still in hitstun for 1 or 2 more hits before they get too far. I feel as though landing characters spikes on grounded opponents don't give enough reward since you land it and can't do anything out of it, might as well do a stronger fair or something.

I don't think a hitstun multiplier would work though, each individual move would need to be tweaked in my eyes and that's a lot of work on the devs. For example, Falcon is just a few frames short from landing down throw knee. Since defense is really good, I might actually be against getting a guaranteed knee from a throw since that might be too OP, maybe at lower percents where it wont kill or if other characters have something similar too (wow that would make matches much quicker).

Another beast to tackle is if there should be easy and accessible kill combos.

 

[Problem2]

If anything, we need more shieldstun. In particular, I think perfect shielding shouldn't be nearly as rewarding as it is. There are ways to apply pressure to normal shielding, but perfect shielding is nearly just that, perfect.

 

[LunarWingCloud]

Less knockback, I actually don't like how you can lock people in Melee with its hitstun. HOWEVER, while base knockback should be lower, knockback SCALING should increase to still allow decent KO potential in the cast.

 

[Quillion]

Less knockback, I actually don't like how you can lock people in Melee with its hitstun. HOWEVER, while base knockback should be lower, knockback SCALING should increase to still allow decent KO potential in the cast.

Several tilts are already more capable of killing around 150% or so, so there's that. Or are you talking about Smashes?

Because, honestly, I don't like how the Fragile Speedsters got the best finishers in previous games in the series. Fragile Speedster should excel at dealing damage, but not finishing. Mighty Glaciers should excel at finishing, but not dealing damage.

 

[Quillion]

Bumping because I want a clear answer again.