Is Ganon OP?

[SandwichPride]

In PM 3.5, they changed him so that he wouldn't be a clone of the hard nipple man, Captain Falcon. His down taunt is now his Warlock Punch but damn it's too OP!!! There are so many times when I use him and I get kills. What do you guys think. Too OP? UP? Please tell me I want to know.

 

[CORY]

In PM 3.5, they changed him so that he wouldn't be a clone of the hard nipple man, Captain Falcon. His down taunt is now his Warlock Punch but damn it's too OP!!! There are so many times when I use him and I get kills. What do you guys think. Too OP? UP? Please tell me I want to know.

so, you think he's op because his literally 1.5second startup grounded attack can kill? the only thing that's stupid about it is that it has armor (the official mistake is heavy armor vs medium armor, but i'm waiting for them to just take all the armor off of it...). otherwise, it's only usable on the ground and has something like 92 frames of startup. that's longer than warlock punch, and you can't start it in the air.

otherwise, no. he's a large, lower mobility character. he has ways to play slippery, especially with platforms, but he's still not quick or mobile. you have to make large commitments with his attacks, so approaching is a bit dicey. if the opponent doesn't know how to bait you out well, or is predictable, ganon will wreck them, because he's built around getting hard reads and making them count REALLY hard. once you get past that point, though, and stop being predictable and falling for fadeaway fairs or "you always roll center stage, time to wizkick", he's a much more managable character.

the stupidest thing about him, tbh, is his nair. it ac's once the second hitbox goes active, comes out on frame 5, deals 12% each hit, and is +3 to 0 on shield, depending on staleness. it's only sorta fair looking because ganon can't move very quickly to use it to control space even better. just waiting for the next patch to see what they do to adjust that.

otherwise, ganon's probably mid or upper mid, which is totally fine for his archetype.

 

[TACJ]

Well Ganondorf is suppose to be really strong, but that doesn't make him overpowered. He excels in the combo game and the punish game, but those are his best areas because he has so much power. Take in consideration of all aspects of Smash, specifically PM 3.5 and you'll see why he not overpowered. Ganon's recovery was buffed but it's not the best. He has a tough time getting back on the stage because his recovery isn't overpowered. He also has a hard time in the neutral game as most of his attacks are unsafe and can be punished easily. He has to commit to an approach a lot more than most characters to get things rolling in his favor. In short, Ganondorf my be overwhelmingly powerful, but that alone does not make him overpowered.

 

[HiroProtagonist]

Play Ganon vs a good Falco and come back and see if this question is still worth asking

 

[ShadowGanon]

Play Ganon vs a good Falco and come back and see if this question is still worth asking

This.

 

[SandwichPride]

yup. With a LVL 9 CPU, 2 friends, and random people.

 

[HiroProtagonist]

No, like a GOOD Falco. One that will laser camp you out and pillar you to death as soon as you try to do anything. Falco as a character perfectly exposes pretty much all of Ganon's weaknesses- he can't deal with projectiles, he's combo food, weak approaches, etc. In a game like Project M that has so many characters with projectiles or who can force you to approach, Ganon has way too many weaknesses in neutral to ever be overpowered even with his amazing kill power.

I'm sorry if we're all sounding a little dismissive, but calling a 90 frame-startup attack "OP" generally gives off the vibe that you don't have too much experience.

 

[SuperCoffeeBros]

Falco as a character perfectly exposes pretty much all of Ganon's weaknesses-

Ganon has the best punishes on spacies though. You don't have to get pillared, and falco's lasers aren't anything you feel like you have to hurry and approach against (1% a majority of the time).

Just wait for your opening, most people won't purely camp, they get anxious and approach very shortly. Wizz kick can also beat out lasers every time if timed properly. Also SDI his dair and tech away and you shouldn't have a problem getting pillared.

Run up jab is great as well

 

[UltiMario]

Ganon has the best punishes on spacies though. You don't have to get pillared, and falco's lasers aren't anything you feel like you have to hurry and approach against (1% a majority of the time).

Just wait for your opening, most people won't purely camp, they get anxious and approach very shortly. Wizz kick can also beat out lasers every time if timed properly. Also SDI his dair and tech away and you shouldn't have a problem getting pillared.

Run up jab is great as well

Umm, what?

Everyone has good punishes against spacies, Ganon does have especially brutal punishes against Falco, but they're really hard to do because Falco's fast fallspeed means you need to predict DI rather than react to it. You're not much more or less vulnerable to pillaring than other characters around similar weights and fallspeeds (you can still get pillared for a few hits without incredible DI and poor follow ups, pretty much), and Blaster has Transcendent Priority, and as such, will always beat Wizard's Foot.

I'd say between Ganon's poor performance against Laser Pressure, combined with getting mutilated by Dair, on top of the fact that his neutral game vs Falco is mediocre and his punishes require hard reads on DI, he's still performing pretty poorly against Falco.

Ganon is probably one of the skill gate characters in this game. His strength is opposite of the level of the players using him, he's pretty much the best character in PM on a casual level, but I still feel like that he's low tier once you get into upper level play.



Also from earier in the thread: imo stuff like Super Armor on kill Taunt is welcome to stay because he's so mediocre that keeping some funny gimmicks is fine. Any time you hit the super armor of taunt and get killed by it always means you either made a mistake, or a different (better) option would've killed you. The sword taunt, even with SUPER ARMOR, isn't a viable edgeguard tool in the slightest, just funny as hell.

 

[SuperCoffeeBros]

Umm, what?

Ya, I didn't know that about Falco's lasers, just tested it. I don't play falco very much so I guess I associate fox punishes with falco. Still it feels like Falco can fall with a few hits.

As far as DI, I thought you were talking about at high levels (really good falco), but I suppose you are right. Falco combos seem pretty predictable though. I don't feel like the MU is too lopsided, especially if you are patient and pretty good at power shielding. (: