Is fox good for tournaments?

[Zeldaslasher]

Is Fox good for tournament's like he used to be? Or am I better off learning other character's like shiek or greninja?

 

[EndlessRain]

In Smash 4, everyone is good (well except Mii Swordfighter :/ ) and it really does just come down to who you like more. Sure, there are characters like Sheik and Diddy who are especially good, but this game is exceptionally well balanced.
If you want more of a straight answer, then yes and no (~~I'm so helpful~~). He is generally agreed to be one of the top 10 characters, but he doesn't match up that well against Sheik, an exceedingly common and very, very good character.
Also Yoshi just screws you over about 70% of the time lol.

Basically, yes he is great but learn to use someone else as well just in case. And pick characters based on how much you enjoy using them, not their position on the tier list. This is the first Smash game where that is actually viable, and you are far more likely to get good with a decent character you like than with a slightly-better-than-decent character you hate using.

 

[elmike]

Diddy is not only top tier, but also one of the easiest characters to play with (IMO)
So if you want to see fast results, then go with diddy.
Sheik may be better than diddy, but she is definitely harder to learn than diddy.
And IMO, fox is harder to learn that sheik, and not as good as them

Anyway, if you outplay the other person, the current state of the game indicates that it wont matter much the character you pick.

 

[luke_atyeo]

fox is top tier, but amongst the top tiers he is probably the hardest to play and requires a lot of precision, so when you are under pressure its harder to perform

so yes but you are going to have to put in a lot of work

 

[Bullys]

fox is top tier, but amongst the top tiers he is probably the hardest to play and requires a lot of precision, so when you are under pressure its harder to perform

so yes but you are going to have to put in a lot of work

The juice is worth the squeeze as they say.

 

[Zeldaslasher]

So is worth all the hard work? Is there something special that makes him better than most top tier characters?

 

[Bullys]

In my experience, if you are serious about being good, you should always aim to pick up a top tier character, but you are far more rewarded by picking a more mechanically sound and "harder" character. Why? you ultimately learn to play the game at a higher level.

My experience is not in Smash but in other games, and often the simple "zerg" or "cheese" strat or "Flavor of the month" compositions (I played team games) worked for a limited amount of time because they were easy to pick up and effective at first. Soon enough the meta adapted and those players soon had their short term success fall. They took an easy route and those taking the longer, but far harder routes, ultimately ended in a better position.

People here have explicitly said that Diddy is arguably the best character to pick up due to easy of use and being one of the best (top 1 or top 2) - and Shiek is there to be learned and potentially the best. Fox is up there if you invest the time.

Asking if anything is worth the hard work is a worrying question.

Nothing in life worth getting, certainly in competitive gaming, comes easy. If it was as easy as picking up one character and having instant success, everyone would do it. Either which way you need to put in some level of work, is it worth it is something you need to ask yourself.

 

[AUS]

Fox is a nice character in tournament, he's quite fast, has some good combos and some nice kill potential. Just dont play him how you would a Melee fox since its a very different play style. I would suggest watching some great Fox's like Larry Lur or Nakat, you could even learn the insane new jab combo that was discovered. As well dont pick your character just because they are "High Tier" in tournaments. Smash 4 is a fairly balanced game, take advantage of that. Its not as if you could just play Bowser in either Brawl or Melee because the game had some balancing issues but you have that liberty in Smash 4.

 

[EndlessRain]

The thing is, Sheik and Diddy are on around the same level in terms of how good they are. Sheik is a bit better imo, but nobody will argue that both are very good. Diddy is easier to learn, but learning Sheik or Fox will make you good at the game, not just those characters.
Sheik and Fox take a similar amount of effort to learn. Fox, I would say, takes slightly more, but again, just opinion.
Let's say you decide you don't like Diddy, and you want to play a strong character. You have reduced it to "Fox or Sheik".
Well, the Fox/Sheik decision comes down to this: They are both excellent. Sheik is better at some things. Fox is better at others. Overall, it comes down to which fits your style better.
There is, however, one last thing to consider. Matchups. This game relies on them heavily.
In terms of MUs, I would say they are roughly even, though Fox's are a little weird. You either have a large advantage (heavies) a seemingly insurmountable disadvantage (Yoshi) or it's even. But all the even ones are even because either of you could die at any moment.
Sheik's MUs are mostly even-ish, with Sheik having a slight advantage.

EDIT: Gonna say this again because it bears repeating. This game is so well-balanced that tiers mean next to nothing. Sheik is probably the best. But a good Bowser vs. a good Sheik is still an uncertain match until after the game has been played.

 

[Foster J.]

Fox, like a lot of top tier characters, has a lot of good matchups, and very few bad ones.

In general you have the speed to close to gap to campers, the reflector against killing projectiles, and very good aerial movement.

I'd want to say that the worst match ups you can have are the heavy hitters or people with killing throws, but this is the thing, you can't just spam dash attack, or you'll get shield grabbed, but since Fox doesn't have any killing setup from his throws, it's best to use them to gain stage control in my opinion and then punish your opponents as hard as possible.

So you want to remain in control, and for gods sake don't run into a Bowser Dropkick

 

[luke_atyeo]

You should pick fox if you either
A. love the character outside of smash
and/or
B. love the fast rushdown style of fox

dont pick him just because he's good.
If you want to pick a character just because they are good I wouldnt limit your choices to just diddy sheik and fox, if you want a top tier these are looking like your solid choices atm.



Anyways, fox being harder to use can definitely help teach you the game better in the long run as bullys said, however some players work better with a simple easier to use character as it means they have to spend less time learning their character and can instead focus heavily on reading and predicting their opponents.

The biggest strength of fox is being able to blitz people with super pressure, but its very hard to keep up that blitz speed without making mistakes that leave openings for your opponent to break your blitz game.


also just an FYI, fox doesnt have a TRUE killing setup from a throw, but he has a psuedo one that works rather well, I keep seeing this pop up so **** it, this is the fox boards, pretty much everyone writes their own fox guide I might as well join the crowd.

 

[EndlessRain]

lol yeah, so many guides, so little in the way of actually useful resources.

EDIT: **** I still haven't posted that combo guide yet, have I?

 

[Foster J.]

Man I think this thread really stresses out how we need a video thread for MUs, there are so many good players out there where people can draw inspiration from, or learn from the replays.

@ luke_atyeo What throw you talking about? Uthrow to Uair? Dthrow to Uair/Bair?

 

[luke_atyeo]

Uthrow, not nessacarily to uair.

Putting the opponent above fox is great for fox, and then you just poke them with uairs while following them to the ground, you dont nessacarily have to commit to an uair, ideally you want to trick the opponent into airdodging so that you can punish the airdodge with an uair or an usmash.
Your opponent landing on the stage can be a huge kill opening.
So if you are having trouble getting around their shield and cant get the kill, go for the easy grab they keep handing you, put them up high, and you'll get kill openings a lot of the time.
Depending on how they act in the air you can also get Bair kills too

 

[elmike]

So is worth all the hard work? Is there something special that makes him better than most top tier characters?

Short answer: NO.

Personally, fox is my main just because i like the design of the character and the mobility (i like agile characters). But the only advantage i see over other top tier characters is the speed and strength of his Usmash (that combined with fox speed and that the only smash you can do while running is Usmash, its great). Other than that, he lacks easier kill setups, he is very lightweight, its hard to edgeguard with him, and versus a lot of characters recovering off-stage can be a real problem (specially without customs).

 

[Zelkam]

lol yeah, so many guides, so little in the way of actually useful resources.

EDIT: **** I still haven't posted that combo guide yet, have I?

What, in your eyes, constitutes as useful information? When I first posted my guide back in November there weren't any up yet and most of the useful information was scattered about. The main reason I made it was to try to gather all that information into one place so new players didn't have to sift through several different threads. I know there's still a lot of needed information to be added, but any guidance on exactly what should be included would be greatly appreciated.


Anyway, to throw my opinion at the OP. I think Fox is capable of holding his own against some of the top tiers, but he's going to have a much harder time. Fox is a character with some very strong attributes, but also some glaring weaknesses. He needs a very skilled player in order to make the best of him.

 

[Timbers]

Fox has one of the best frametrap games in Sm4sh, great juggling opportunities with a fast run, lasting active frames on DA, uair is devastating, fast utilt.

Character is definitely hard to become comfortable with, though. He has poor range and linear aerials, and you're really pressed to always be at your best on punishing mistakes. As time goes on, and people become more competent with his precise style, I think he'll be devastating.

At least, assuming the character is feared as he is now. Things that scare me about Fox's future is his garbage edgeguard game and a weak grab game. Almost every other perceived top/high tier has either great followups from grabs or can put opponents in very scary situations to land the kill (either killthrows, frametrap setups, or edgeguarding)

 

[EndlessRain]

What, in your eyes, constitutes as useful information? When I first posted my guide back in November there weren't any up yet and most of the useful information was scattered about. The main reason I made it was to try to gather all that information into one place so new players didn't have to sift through several different threads. I know there's still a lot of needed information to be added, but any guidance on exactly what should be included would be greatly appreciated.

I must admit, I did spread the hyperbole a bit thick, to say the least. We don't have that many guides, but we do have a lot of people saying they are planning on writing one. And I did say "little". Not "nothing". Your guide falls squarely under the "useful" section: It's great. And sure, it's not complete, but it's well on its way mate.
All we need is for people to finish/post those guides they're allegedly working on. Myself included ha (though I am starting to get the feeling that a pure combo guide is unnecessary at this point).

 

[Zelkam]

I must admit, I did spread the hyperbole a bit thick, to say the least. We don't have that many guides, but we do have a lot of people saying they are planning on writing one. And I did say "little". Not "nothing". Your guide falls squarely under the "useful" section: It's great. And sure, it's not complete, but it's well on its way mate.
All we need is for people to finish/post those guides they're allegedly working on. Myself included ha (though I am starting to get the feeling that a pure combo guide is unnecessary at this point).

Cool, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something obvious lol

 

[jr22]

Fox is really good in this game. He's good for tournaments is this game, he's fast, pretty good strings that racks up damage pretty fast and has some good kill potential. I would suggest watching Larry Nakat and zero foxes, you could learn some new stuff about fox and can adapt to it.

 

[dahuterschuter]

No, he cannot HOOHAH.

 

[luke_atyeo]

even cell can HOO HAH

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zgw75zNvgaE&feature=player_detailpage#t=35

 

[Gawain]

He's good but to be honest, against a good player abusing the power of shields in this game, it can be extraordinarily hard for him to seal a stock. He builds percent super fast and gets them into kill range quickly but it can frustrating trying to get a kill move in when they've got good DI.

 

[G-Sword]

After playing against another fox player online. Shout out to hardrick whoever you are. I took my fox to another level. Fox is definitely a top tier character. I can see why nakat uses fox as a counter to diddy. It takes a lot of skill to play as fox and as someone said the ones that use more technical skill are worth working for. Fox is definitely tourney worthy

 

[Rhus]

As everyone has been saying, Fox's skill floor and ceiling are among the highest in the game, so it takes time to get used to him. He has small hitboxes, poor priority and pretty bad range, but he does pretty much have the fastest gameplay out of the whole cast. He's quick, and probably has the overall most versatile movement in the game.

Most of his matchups are pretty good, and the ones that aren't can often be rectified at least a little by Fox's versatile kit and high "outplay" potential.

 

[NAKAT]

After playing against another fox player online. Shout out to hardrick whoever you are. I took my fox to another level. Fox is definitely a top tier character. I can see why nakat uses fox as a counter to diddy. It takes a lot of skill to play as fox and as someone said the ones that use more technical skill are worth working for. Fox is definitely tourney worthy

Fox is my mans