Is Diddy Easy?

[Empty Number]

So I've been seeing a lot of talk lately about how Diddy is "easy" in the sense that anybody can pick him up and start winning with him in practically no time at all. I've been wondering if this is something that's really true.

Counting the 3DS and Wii U versions, I probably have a few dozen hours of Diddy play, and I wouldn't consider myself as having mastered him at all. He has complex spacing with so many options to practice that sometimes I wonder if it is possible to optimally incorporate them all into your game. Add into this the fact that if your opponent can correctly DI, then you cannot kill them early. And if Diddy can't kill with Uair, then he has trouble killing - seeing as his only other reliable kill move is a forward smash that sometimes doesn't reliably connect through all of its hits.

What do you guys think? Is our main an easy character to learn? Does he have a low skill floor, or low skill ceiling? Neither? Why?

 

[Legit]

He's easy lol. Much higher skill ceiling in Brawl. All you do in this game is confirm out of grabs, then kill with either uair or banana to fsmash. Only thing that takes any kind of skill is trying to recover, since his recovery is pretty terrible in this game. Most of his options are really safe as well and aren't particularly difficult to space.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

IDK myself really - he's just pretty damn lethal in good hands. I've mained him in Brawl and I mostly use what I still loved to use as him in Brawl (F-Air Launching and overall good ol' comboing and spacing his moves fit for situation with occassional bananas thrown in.) - because the overused kill methods will be conditioned on as time keeps on going: I mean, hoohaas constantly being worked on to be countered, and I'd rather not be part of that. TBH though, a lot characters are pretty sweet in this game. Hm.

I rarely use hoohaas though (I prefer F-Air or B-Air followups from D-Throw) for they are basically same last-resort kill options as Ness's B-Throw in higher percents. Not to mention his U-Air can rival Diddy's but he's much floatier. No complaints on both however.

 

[PixelPerfect]

It's just that his grab combos into almost anything so all you really need to know is banana dthrow and usually uair, or the "hoo ha." He doesn't have nearly as high of a skill ceiling as Brawl and his only weakness is that his recovery is both gimpable, especially against characters with counter, and somewhat difficult to get the hang of. He has good damage and great versatility and almost always has guaranteed follow-ups from dthrow.

 

[Desu~]

Nyessssss

 

[guedes the brawler]

the hell is a hoo haa?

anyways, he is somewhat simple but people seem to exagerate about how easy his grab combos are. definitively not as simple as, say, Mario's combos.

there seems to be some sort of trick to dthrow-> up air that i can't for the life of me figure out.

 

[Dope_Dizzle]

I personally would not say he's easy, yes he has thee hoo haa and definitely great combos follow ups and options for shield pressure but I feel there is a lot of characters that have combos n setups just as good. A lot of top players are diddy mains but not all of them. If diddy was easy and as OP as people cry about then we wouldn't see any sonics/zss/ness's/foxes placing 1st or very high in large scale tournaments. Everyone would play Diddy hands down. I feel as the game develops the diddy hype will die down a bit because it is very well balanced. the metagame is developing rapidly. new things are still being brought to the table IMO

 

[Empty Number]

I personally would not say he's easy, yes he has thee hoo haa and definitely great combos follow ups and options for shield pressure but I feel there is a lot of characters that have combos n setups just as good. A lot of top players are diddy mains but not all of them. If diddy was easy and as OP as people cry about then we wouldn't see any sonics/zss/ness's/foxes placing 1st or very high in large scale tournaments. Everyone would play Diddy hands down. I feel as the game develops the diddy hype will die down a bit because it is very well balanced. the metagame is developing rapidly. new things are still being brought to the table IMO

Honestly I feel Luigi plays a very similar game to Diddy. The tricks they use are different, but their goals are usually the same. Plus Luigi has more kill moves.

 

[Dope_Dizzle]

Honestly I feel Luigi plays a very similar game to Diddy. The tricks they use are different, but their goals are usually the same. Plus Luigi has more kill moves.

mmhmm he has a Dthrow/Fair/Fair that works on everyone ! n that's one of his smalled combo strings. but anyway give me some insight on that FF Fair. my timing must be whack. you FF after the Fair animation is done? or Frame canceling it? Thx EmptyNumber

 

[dahuterschuter]

No, Diddy is a classy girl!

 

[Dope_Dizzle]

Diddy doesn't turn anything down besides his collar

 

[Roll-Spamming-Peasant]

Just about every character in the game has a "hoo hah" out of their dthrow...So yes, but Easy like any other Top tier has ever been easy to play, so I'm not surprised.

 

[Gil.]

Diddy is easy to do decently with, like Sheik in Melee, but the issue is that he has a fragile and temperamental recovery. Thankfully your amazing on stage game means that it isn't an issue. A new player who understands the basics of Diddy will do better than a new player that understands the basics of Ganon, because the simple Bread and Butter combos that he can rely on and a very good roll which means if you don't want to practice and still do well then Diddy is the best idea. I think in the long term with lots of investment, Sheik is an overall stronger character, but in the short term, yes I would say the basics of Diddy are easy.

 

[Dope_Dizzle]

I no way do I believe you can do well without any practicing just by choosing diddy. That is just a unreasonable thing to say lol idc if he was even better than he is. you'd still get bodied by someone who plays often that picks random. Diddy's game is much more than his Dthrow combos. J/S

 

[RESET Vao]

Most people who say Diddy is easy can not catch a banana properly. like Leffen at Beast5 lol.

Edit: I'm not saying he's hard, he's pretty simple to pick up - I'm just saying that the vast majority of people who moan and say he's an easy win are pretty clueless.

 

[atomicblast360]

Diddy is easy to pick up and play, but not as easy to master and actually win tournaments with.

And a lot of people I see playing Diddy don't even know how to catch the banana without air dodging (cauing you to have slight landing lag)

 

[Probalo]

Yeah I'd say he's easy to pick up and play off the bat. Diddy has a much lower skill ceiling than in Brawl, but is still a hard character to master.

 

[pikazz]

I picked up Diddy once for jokes against one of my friend which is really good at playing competive, won pretty much.
so yeah, he is easy to pick up and play just like sheik in melee and somewhat sheik in smash4

 

[bc1910]

Yes, I think he is easy, and I don't hate him or have trouble catching bananas or whatnot. I just think he's easy. It's simply not difficult to get solid results with him after minimal practice time, his moveset is really good and very simple to use. That's not to say Diddy doesn't have depth though, because I think he does.

 

[Empty Number]

Yes, I think he is easy, and I don't hate him or have trouble catching bananas or whatnot. I just think he's easy. It's simply not difficult to get solid results with him after minimal practice time, his moveset is really good and very simple to use. That's not to say Diddy doesn't have depth though, because I think he does.

See that's the main thing that gets me riled up. Lots of people seem to think that Diddy lacks depth. He actually has a wealth of movement techniques and other advanced techs - along with item play.

 

[O1DsLeNdYwHiTe]

See that's the main thing that gets me riled up. Lots of people seem to think that Diddy lacks depth. He actually has a wealth of movement techniques and other advanced techs - along with item play.

He lacks depth in some aspects, but not entirely. You have Diddy players who actually exhibit the character's creative aspects, and then you have the players who abuse him just to pick up wins in a set.

No matter how it's argued, it does take significantly less dedication and skill to master this character, for most of his options are practically handed to him on a silver platter. Though, I'm not necessarily implying it doesn't take any skill to play this character. I mean, if you're that one idiot who's like, "Oh, if I pick up Diddy, I'll always win! Because he's the best character in the game!" Then you're going to get wrecked at a tournament.

It is possible to fight Diddy, almost every character has some sort of option or strategy against him, though I find it ridiculous how much effort and stress you have to put because of this character's absurd options.

Though I think we can all agree on one thing.

He's not Brawl Meta-Knight.

 

[Empty Number]

He lacks depth in some aspects, but not entirely. You have Diddy players who actually exhibit the character's creative aspects, and then you have the players who abuse him just to pick up wins in a set.

No matter how it's argued, it does take significantly less dedication and skill to master this character, for most of his options are practically handed to him on a silver platter. Though, I'm not necessarily implying it doesn't take any skill to play this character. I mean, if you're that one idiot who's like, "Oh, if I pick up Diddy, I'll always win! Because he's the best character in the game!" Then you're going to get wrecked at a tournament.

It is possible to fight Diddy, almost every character has some sort of option or strategy against him, though I find it ridiculous how much effort and stress you have to put because of this character's absurd options.

Though I think we can all agree on one thing.

He's not Brawl Meta-Knight.

Thanks for this. He certainly can be creative. I enjoy setting up banana traps and baits, and I have recently begun to take up Zero's style of unrelenting s-hopped aerials and pressure when I can. However, I fail to see how his options are any more smothering than say: Sonic's or Mario's or Luigi's. (Sonic in particular)

Granted, it might be because I play mostly Diddy and those characters tend to give me a lot of trouble and are extraordinarily stressful to play against. All 3 are difficult to punish because of:

1) Sheer speed (in Sonic's case).
2) Frame data (Plumbers).
3) KO Options (All 3)

Diddy has a great KO move that only surprise KOs at around 140%-150%, and only gets you early kills if you read an air dodge. His other reliable kill option is F-Smash, but this is only if it doesn't knock your opponent in an odd way - which happens quite often. U-Smash would be a pretty good option around 130%-140%, but it is even more slippery than F-Smash. Fair used to be a reliable kill move, but I find my opponents living well into the 140%s. The last option is the backward hit on D-Smash, which you can never count on. I admit though, the banana helps for sure - and the setups and options are quite varied.

I hear all these people talk about nerfing Uair - but what they don't realize is that if you take away Uair KO potential, Diddy doesn't have much to go off of.

 

[Legit]

I hear all these people talk about nerfing Uair - but what they don't realize is that if you take away Uair KO potential, Diddy doesn't have much to go off of.

This. Without uair, we literally NEED a banana hit to lead into a KO move, otherwise our opponent is going to live till 160+%. They should nerf its comboability out of throws and its endlag/landing lag, not its killpower (if so, then VERY slightly).

 

[O1DsLeNdYwHiTe]

This. Without uair, we literally NEED a banana hit to lead into a KO move, otherwise our opponent is going to live till 160+%. They should nerf its comboability out of throws and its endlag/landing lag, not its killpower (if so, then VERY slightly).

Personally, I believe if Sakurai did nerf Diddy's u-air kill power, he'd still be viable. I mean, that's the only true complaint I have about Diddy, the U-air, and how easily it kills. I wouldn't mind if it was easy to iniate a d-throw into two up-airs so much if the move didn't kill so easily.

However if you're getting hoo-haa'd after the 100% mark, that's you're own fault. That can be easily Di'd out of, and the worst you're going to get at that point is either a guaranteed b-air or f-air, which are both decent moves and I have no complaints about.

Honestly, I've rarely touched Diddy at all. In fact, I'd go as far to say I've probably only played him three times since first purchasing the 3DS version in 2014, 2 / 3 of them being of the random selection option, but I've noticed Diddy does have a lot of reliable kill options even if his U-air is to be nerfed. His smash attacks are very relaible kill moves, more preferably the f-smash. Jump cancel throw banana into immediate f-smash, his back-throw on either side of the stage, his up-smash in anti-aerial situations.

I honestly don't think nerfing his U-air will cripple him when taking kill options into consideration. You might have to work a little bit harder, but it won't be a lost cause.

 

[Legit]

His smash attacks are very relaible kill moves, more preferably the f-smash. Jump cancel throw banana into immediate f-smash, his back-throw on either side of the stage, his up-smash in anti-aerial situations.

The fsmash is likely only going to be landed after a banana hit (which doesn't happen too often against good players that look out for it), the back throw won't kill until 160 or higher with DI (im assuming no rage), and usmash, while it can kill at a decent percentage (120-130), is very unsafe on whiff. His dsmash is unviable as a kill move except for the back hit, but let's be real, no one is going to get hit by the back hit. Fair doesn't kill till around 160+ now. Bair is actually pretty strong now and can kill people offstage at around 100%, maybe lower.

Without uair having at least some kill potential, we'd be hard pressed to get kills before 150%. The character would still be very viable, but I think it would be too hard of a nerf. We'd go from #1 in the game (which I still disagree with) to barely top 10 imo. Regardless I'm still playing the monkey no matter what happens

 

[Dre89]

No character is easy to win tourneys with, but Diddy is definitely easier to be successful with than most of the cast. He's mostly just fundamentals as he has good hitoxes and priority backed up by good frame data. Only thing that is difficult for him relative to the rest of the cast is recovering, but it's still easier to recover with him than a lot of other characters.

 

[DewDaDash]

At low levels yes.
At high levels however you need a very fast/reactive understanding of the character as well as consistent flow of strings. Best way to play the character is to overwhelm your opponent.

 

[IWinToLose]

At low levels yes.
At high levels however you need a very fast/reactive understanding of the character as well as consistent flow of strings. Best way to play the character is to overwhelm your opponent.

I agree with most of this statement. Diddy is easy to pick up and learn and HOO HAA to victory.

However, what really sets good Diddy players aside from others is knowledge, execution, and reaction time. For example, Diddy can punish Sonic's SD if he goes for an UAir on an anticipated hit with. Knowing this for every move, for every character and being to to react in time to all these situations is what sets the best apart from the rest. Also, exceptionally good Diddy's know how to DI to counter their opponent's DI. Since Diddy is full of frame traps in the air, this will net you kills and tons of damage if you can do this.

 

[JustYuck]

I picked up Diddy once for jokes against one of my friend which is really good at playing competive, won pretty much.
so yeah, he is easy to pick up and play just like sheik in melee and somewhat sheik in smash4

This is an awful comparison. Picking up Diddy in Sm4sh is nothing like picking up sheik in melee. Sheik actually takes some skill to do anything competitive with, not saying Diddy does not, just saying that this is not a good comparison.

 

[O1DsLeNdYwHiTe]

This is an awful comparison. Picking up Diddy in Sm4sh is nothing like picking up sheik in melee. Sheik actually takes some skill to do anything competitive with, not saying Diddy does not, just saying that this is not a good comparison.

I agree. Comparing Sm4sh Diddy Kong to Melee Shiek seems a bit far-fetched to me. If you were comparing them due to the learning curve, I'd somewhat understand. Shiek does take significantly less "tech skill" than most of the melee cast, but overall, you have to have precise reaction time, good movement, and just a good understanding of the character in general.

I'm not saying Diddy Kong doesn't take any skill to play as, but anyone can pick him up and within a week be somewhat decent with him due to how friendly he is toward new players. Melee Shiek takes a lot longer and more skill to grasp.

 

[Diddy Kong]

As of now, Diddy books the most results because it's currently easiest to win exploiting Diddy's D Throw U Air. It's not that much different from Melee's Sheik. But Diddy isn't all too easy, cause he really needs his flow to be really effective. Sure, you can be annoying and just throw bananas out of shield, Side B to approach and only try for grabs to U Air but Diddy can make much sexier combos than that. That's why people are probably drawn to him to, as he has actually debt in his game which people often overlook. I think that an aggresively played Diddy is an awesome sight to see myself.

 

[O1DsLeNdYwHiTe]

As of now, Diddy books the most results because it's currently easiest to win exploiting Diddy's D Throw U Air. It's not that much different from Melee's Sheik. But Diddy isn't all too easy, cause he really needs his flow to be really effective. Sure, you can be annoying and just throw bananas out of shield, Side B to approach and only try for grabs to U Air but Diddy can make much sexier combos than that. That's why people are probably drawn to him to, as he has actually debt in his game which people often overlook. I think that an aggresively played Diddy is an awesome sight to see myself.

Despite the lack of tech skill required to master the two charactes, I still fail to see the similarities. And even if it can probably be proven with a little more depth, the comparison to melee Shiek doesn't really support any side of this argument. The objection was that it was a slightly far-fetched comparison for this cause. I respect the input, but I don't see it as relevant regardless.

And it's already been said that there are players out there who exhibit the creative side of Diddy. We get that, everyone agrees. But he is the easiest to master, no matter how it's sugar coated or redefined. It does take significantly less effort to play as Diddy, but no one said it takes no skill or dedication. As I implied in a previous addition to this dispute, you can't just pick up Diddy and expect to win against another player who actually knows what he / she is doing.