Is bair any good in ultimate? Also other moveset questions.

[MERPIS]

Kind of an odd question, but I just really love bair for some reason, so is it any good?

Now its time for some other things I've been iching to ask..
Is it true that dair actually comes out on frame 3 and auto cans in a short hop?
What's so good about ftilt and dthrow?
Is utilt still amazing?
Does uair still kill amazingly early?

 

[zeldasmash]

Dthrow was really good in Brawl due to tech chasing and almost always leaving Snake in a favorable position as it can lead to a punish or a roll into a mine Snake has placed. In Ultimate, due to the new grab mechanics, he can't tech chase with it anymore or at least it's not as dangerous as it was in Brawl.

Ftilt was really good due to having very good damage, had a lock into itself, was a kill move (which makes the lock even more dangerous) and it's disjoint, while not utilt bonkers, is still pretty bonkers, having more range then it lets on.

Utilt in Ultimate doesn't seem to have the bonkers disjoint that it had in Brawl but it still kills pretty early for a tilt and it's range isn't bad. It's just not bonkers like in Brawl.

Not sure if dair autocancels. If it does, then awesome!

 

[Harb]

I am really going to miss his DACUS and up-tilt from Brawl. However, at least up-tilt still looks okay. I hope f-tilt is as satisfying as it looks in this game. I like how quick his nair comes out now!

 

[Berserker.]

Not sure if dair autocancels. If it does, then awesome!

It does from a short hop. Speaking of short hops, this is relevant

 

[Jonny Westside]

What about sticky C4? I main snake in brawl and it wasn't a great move. Continuing to Project M C4 became a staple move that controlled the pace of the game in snake's favor and was the best KO set up by far. I'm wondering if perhaps it will be a useful asset in snake's arsenal this time around.

 

[MERPIS]

What about sticky C4? I main snake in brawl and it wasn't a great move. Continuing to Project M C4 became a staple move that controlled the pace of the game in snake's favor and was the best KO set up by far. I'm wondering if perhaps it will be a useful asset in snake's arsenal this time around.

That thing is so good in ultimate

 

[PURGE THEM LIKE THE]

Do we have frame data on down smash? I'm mad that they gave him one of those trashy double kicks instead of the mine, but I'll be even more mad if it doesn't at least get compensated with good frame data.

 

[MERPIS]

Do we have frame data on down smash? I'm mad that they gave him one of those trashy double kicks instead of the mine, but I'll be even more mad if it doesn't at least get compensated with good frame data.

First hit is on frame 10.
Screw frame data on dsmash, dair is on frame 3, THREE. And that's gross

 

[Jonny Westside]

That thing is so good in ultimate

Sticky C4 is good???

 

[MERPIS]

Sticky C4 is good???

Obviously

 

[Jonny Westside]

Obviously

Cool, cool thx man!

 

[MERPIS]

Cool, cool thx man!

It's just not good to stick on your opponent as you'll probably be punished for doing that in the process

 

[ssbKingKoopa]

It looks like U-tilt still has some crazy range, Lol

 

[Spaceman]

Since most battles will be played on battlefield, I would recommend learning shield-drop tech so you can perform a back-air off the platform without waiting on 3 frames of jumpsquat. The move has amazing horizontal and can probably poke above and below the platform for a really safe/fast option.

 

[**Havok**]

Can confirm his uptilt is still crazy good. Snakes are going to think of other ways to kill though. Up tilt in Ultimate is the new Ftilt of brawl.

 

[Chibi-Chan]

Can confirm his uptilt is still crazy good. Snakes are going to think of other ways to kill though. Up tilt in Ultimate is the new Ftilt of brawl.

Yeah, Uptilt is insane. When I play Snake it's the one mvoe I can reliably KO with. Not Brawl tier, but still very strong and unlikely to stale. The hitbox actually makes sense now.

 

[-Ran]

It's just not good to stick on your opponent as you'll probably be punished for doing that in the process

Not really. Shield drop in Brawl was faster, and we were able to get people into situations where we could C-4 sticky them. The aerial version drops on frame 9, and with a three frame jump squat now, Snake is going to be well equipped to chase people when they are on platforms holding shield for fear of getting hit by bair/uair/up tilt. I'm curious about full hop Dair/nair on platform to lead to potential combos, since it seems they can link to certain moves.

With Down throw no longer being a tech chase to regrab, scoring a C4 sticky is going to be a reasonable option to go for as well.

Due to the parry mechanic, players are going to be releasing their shield in attempt to get their parry. In these situations they are going to parry if a move hits them in 5 frames of the shield drop. They are going to be vulnerable to a sticky, or a grab during this time.

 

[DavemanCozy]

Dsmash is pretty quick (I am getting frame 5 for first hit in front from doing training mode but I'll edit if I'm mistaken) and turns out it is a good answer against the short characters that awkwardly crouch under Snake's jab.

Edit: it is frame 10. I was using 1 frame camera in training and I was not inputting the L button to freeze fast enough. Now I know my reaction time is 5 frames slow

I miss the land mine more but it is what it is.

 

[LTheartless]

autocancelled dair into utilt is sooooooooooo goooood

 

[DavemanCozy]

His dair is so good in this game. It's nuts already that it is frame 3, and then it has multiple hitboxes for shield pressure, and a pop at the end to let him float away safely. And then it autocancels in a shorthop making it fairly difficult to punish. It's such an amazing move in neutral

Frame 3, like geeez. That's Diddy Kong frame data fast, why does a character with so much zoning potential have this as well lol

 

[Perversion]

Along with dair into to utilt, I'm having a lot of success with nair autocancel into utilt. Although I will admit, I don't know if it's true or which hit I'm cancelling out going into utilt. As I have only been doing this naturally in live games and not through labbing.

 

[Miley]

What are Snake's out of shield options?

 

[DavemanCozy]

What are Snake's out of shield options?

Shorthop Dair is pretty good even if you miss the parry. Jab and ftilt are decent too.

 

[Perversion]

Not sure if this was posted, but we have Snake's frame data now on Kurgane Hammer. Here's a link: link.

 

[Perversion]

In reply to OoS options, do you think Grenade dropping and planting a C4 could be a viable option?

 

[DavemanCozy]

In reply to OoS options, do you think Grenade dropping and planting a C4 could be a viable option?

If you're holding the grenade already, then yeah it's always a good option to jump out of shield and z-drop it. It would be similar to Diddy's banana z-drop that was known in S4. As long as you don't get hit by the explosion you may be able to sticky them.

Also be careful of shielding your own grenade damage as well. It does mad shield damage in this game, this may just be the universal nerfs to shield itself, but I have broken a couple shields during some matches when I combine an Up-smash missile, grenades, and a side-b missile. Just keep that in mind.

 

[LTheartless]

I actually broke 2 player's shields simultaneously using two grenades and a dash attack. Grenade's shield damage is crazy.

 

[speedguy20]

I actually broke 2 player's shields simultaneously using two grenades and a dash attack. Grenade's shield damage is crazy.

Yea Grenade shield damage is bonkers. I had put a grenade next to a ganon once and he sat in shield, so I d-air him and after the final hit, the grenade explodes on his shield. He was probably stuck in hit stun because I got a sweet spot F-air after the grenade explosion and it broke his shield.
That full charged f-smashed felt so damn satisfying.

 

[LTheartless]

Yea Grenade shield damage is bonkers. I had put a grenade next to a ganon once and he sat in shield, so I d-air him and after the final hit, the grenade explodes on his shield. He was probably stuck in hit stun because I got a sweet spot F-air after the grenade explosion and it broke his shield.
That full charged f-smashed felt so damn satisfying.

You should have stuck him with a C4 first and then Uthrow'd him. Call it dirty fireworks!