Ironing out the silly mistakes with Samus...

[Jackal Eire]

Hey guys, new to the boards but have stolen so much Samus knowledge from you guys already I feel some thanks are in order!
Wondering if you guys could help me out with getting the most out of my Samus, I almost never use ftilt or and u air chains into screw attack I can only really seem to pull it off if my opponent doesn't di pretty much at all. I have the default control setup but seem to throw out waaay to many fsmashes and am justly getting punished for it, where I assume an ftilt would be a little safer/less laggy... Any advice for a change in controls (using cube controller) maybe?
Just recently started trying to condition myself using SHAD instead of rolling, but I find if I'm up against a good rushdown character I can't space effectively enough and just start rolling rolling rolling always feeling a step behind .
I'd love if some of you guys could take a look at a replay or two of mine and offer any advice you might have?
Been playing since 64 but never mained Samus before, had no intention of doing it with smash 4 but swapped over from zss because God do I love the Charge Shot mind games, sooo satisfying!
Thanks in advance, and it's great to have a resource like this for a character mostly ignored in the competitive discussion, who we all know has tonnes of potential which you are all bringing to the surface

 

[CyranoNester]

Well, from my experience, most good rushdown characters don't have any/good projectiles (like CF and Lil Mac). I'd suggest, before doing anything, fire and uncharged CS at them and see how they react. (Don't try to this every time a match starts, or else someone might realize your patterns)

If they approach with a dash, and powershield the shot, well now you know how a little bit of how experienced this player is with the character. If they don't approach at all, well, you now have a chance to charge up your CS, and maybe let out a few missiles while you're at it. You should take as many chances as you can to charge up CS while your opponent is away.

But, in the end, fast, rushdown characters are a great weakness for Samus. Remember to keep your eye on your opponent (except if you're sent flying offstage, then focus on yourself), make mental notes of you're opponent's patterns and exploit them for it, and always remember that against characters like ZSS or SANIC, etc, you have the better projectiles, remember to use them.

 

[Jackal Eire]

Well, from my experience, most good rushdown characters don't have any/good projectiles (like CF and Lil Mac). I'd suggest, before doing anything, fire and uncharged CS at them and see how they react. (Don't try to this every time a match starts, or else someone might realize your patterns)

If they approach with a dash, and powershield the shot, well now you know how a little bit of how experienced this player is with the character. If they don't approach at all, well, you now have a chance to charge up your CS, and maybe let out a few missiles while you're at it. You should take as many chances as you can to charge up CS while your opponent is away.

But, in the end, fast, rushdown characters are a great weakness for Samus. Remember to keep your eye on your opponent (except if you're sent flying offstage, then focus on yourself), make mental notes of you're opponent's patterns and exploit them for it, and always remember that against characters like ZSS or SANIC, etc, you have the better projectiles, remember to use them.

Solid advice thanks, yeah I usually start a match against a new opponent with a missile just to see what the reaction is, and if as you say they sprint then powershield it then your like "ok he knows what he's at". I've been trying to hold onto my charge shot as long as possible if only to force the opponent to play cautiously, but that of course is easier said than done if your under a lot of pressure... Getting the hang of reading patterns and conditioning, I just know myself sometimes that I play like an open book if I'm under the kosh.
Guess I'll just learn by doing, is there any thread in particular to ask for a few practice rounds with some willing board members here?
Cheers for your help!

 

[Afro Smash]

Solid advice thanks, yeah I usually start a match against a new opponent with a missile just to see what the reaction is, and if as you say they sprint then powershield it then your like "ok he knows what he's at". I've been trying to hold onto my charge shot as long as possible if only to force the opponent to play cautiously, but that of course is easier said than done if your under a lot of pressure... Getting the hang of reading patterns and conditioning, I just know myself sometimes that I play like an open book if I'm under the kosh.
Guess I'll just learn by doing, is there any thread in particular to ask for a few practice rounds with some willing board members here?
Cheers for your help!

http://smashboards.com/threads/samus-skype-group-update.393925/ If you join this skype group people are always looking for matches

 

[Jackal Eire]

http://smashboards.com/threads/samus-skype-group-update.393925/ If you join this skype group people are always looking for matches

Thanks man!

 

[JAZZ_]

I have a view tricks I can share myself. For Control scheme I switched my C-stick from smash to attack, allow easy tilt access when under immense pressure. I also disable tap jump because I like to control when I jump but that's my preference. For rush downs I have an arsenal of tactics.

• Projectiles: I try to use my slow missiles more often then a power missile for multiple reasons. 1. it covers short hop and sprint approaches. 2. it sets an opponent up for a slower tempo mentality as far as defenses are concerned, allowing for more mistakes when you do throw out your CS or power missile. 3. its the last thing an opponent expects you to throw at them, even seasoned players will find themselves getting stopped by these little devils. Power missiles are still a great go to though, don't neglect them. And you can use the CS too, try changing up release times, a half charged CS is potent and unexpected half the time.
• Tilts: Specifically down tilt and up tilt. Down tilt has an amazing hit box, more so then it ever has, its deceivingly fast, ranged and hits pretty hard. Up tilt can cover your biscuit too in much the same way but has less range and is slower than Down tilt. However it can protect you from an up close short hop approach and creates true combo follow ups. ex. and UT will spike pretty nicely, if hit just right the opponent will get hit twice leaving them un-moved, frozen on the ground for a few frames. at low percents its a True combo to do the following: UT + UT + DT or UT + UT+ UT ( then they get launched) or UT + UT + FT + Z ( and then follow with your choice of pummel throw down aerial combo. mine is Down throw and Fair ) However it should be noted that this only is possible if the first UT hits just right which is rare depending on the opponent. My go to is down tilt though because of the range and priority it commands. And with my control set up its much easier to accomplish these moves without letting your opponent see what your doing. Forward tilt (and subsequently back tilt) Is great to use if your opponent rolls behind you, its quick and gets them away from your personal space. In my experience you don't want to trade blows with someone who can get in your face successfully, Its lethal against The Hunter (AKA Samus for those who never played a single metroid game)
• Bombs: These little guys are your wildcard/Dark-horse move. They're small, not intimidating but are overlooked and will come quite in handy. One way I use them is while your on the stage to use one without jumping, while pulling back. the maneuverability the Bomb gives in the air is astonishing to say the least. your now far away from that bomb, creating a sprint wall that lingers. and because you are a ball and smaller you can use this tactic nearly at the last second, not quite last second but considerably close and get off scotch free. the bomb wont launch them so you have a few frames of hit stun to capitalize on with a CS if you have one charged. Another approach is to jump towards your opponent and bomb right over them, then use the ball mode to immediately retreat back. as mentioned earlier these bombs give you INSANE in air maneuverability side to side that normal falling samus DOESNT have! Say you release the bomb in the air mid way through FD, if your retreated back while still a ball you'd be nearly back at the edge of the stage by the time your out of that ball. Why is this option viable? well a opponent will typically try to shield, dodge or roll away from the bomb, this allows for follow up grabs or dash attacks.
• And of course you can Shield or spot dodge a rushdown.

Any way thats my little bit of Knowledge. Take it with a grain of salt, Im no expert tourny player, but Its what ive discovered, and this gives you a whole bag of tricks to change up mid fight, Its so easy for samus players to be a one trick pony. This small contribution may help anyone who is learning Samus' more in depth moveset.

 

[Jackal Eire]

Thanks for taking the time to write that up, plenty of good info...Just changed cstick to tilt attacks and once my hand stops expecting smashes to come from it all should be good!

Never really used the homing missiles (on purpose) but yeah would be a nice mix up to catch people on shield for a grab and such. Love love love the bombs, shield pressure is great and some players are thrown off if it interrupts their attack/dash, Samus can really destroy an opponents shield in no time, and especially with hyper aggressive players who won't think to defend the shield break. Stupid as it might sound what I'm not nailing consistently is shorthops, but SHAD bair or uair is usually a surprise the first time you nail somebody with it.

Up tilt to down tilt if they tech I only started using and not to mention looking badass its very useful, I definitely don't down tilt enough, need to take more advantage of its speed and hitbox like you say.
Bomb movement I never really looked at too much, so yeah think I'll experiment and get more familiar with it...

I so want usmash to be good, it feels great when you connect with it but I swear every damn time I use it and they pop out I'm just like "ugh why do I keep doing this..."

The knowledge is greatly appreciated thanks!

 

[Xygonn]

Not listed here, but upb OoS needs to be a punish on reaction for a lot of moves such as dash attacks or poorly spaced aerials. It is your replacement for shield grab as a Samus main.

I guess I'll advertise my guide some more

http://smashboards.com/guides/outsmarting-mother-brain.343/

 

[-_ellipsis_-]

Another thing you should take to the lab is upair utility. You don't have to string right into upb. Falling upair can string wonderfully into jab, which is a great flow chart for grab, retreating pivot ftilt, dtilt, or fsmash. If you SH and immediately input upair, you'll have enough time to input it again before you hit the ground so that another hitbox or two can come out. You can catch people off guard this way and create a very odd form of spacing.

 

[JAZZ_]

Thanks for taking the time to write that up, plenty of good info...Just changed cstick to tilt attacks and once my hand stops expecting smashes to come from it all should be good!

I so want usmash to be good, it feels great when you connect with it but I swear every damn time I use it and they pop out I'm just like "ugh why do I keep doing this..."

The knowledge is greatly appreciated thanks!

I know, Usmash should be better, in fact, I find the only smash that samus has that's proven reliable is down (great roll behind protection). Fsmash has such animation lag after the fact that, coupled with the fact that the hitbox is freaking finicky makes it such a risky option, highly punishable. I've managed to trade out my Usmash tendencies with Utilt but Fsmash still gets me in trouble. Though it has come through 50% of the time which has been shocking and satisfying. But in a heated match 50% accuracy with a move that samus bites too hard on isn't very reliable.

I wonder why they made samus go in hard with most her moves? She leaves herself vulnerable all too often but oh well.. Maybe I should try tilting her Fsmash down... Maybe that'll connect more

 

[Xygonn]

I know, Usmash should be better, in fact, I find the only smash that samus has that's proven reliable is down (great roll behind protection). Fsmash has such animation lag after the fact that, coupled with the fact that the hitbox is freaking finicky makes it such a risky option, highly punishable. I've managed to trade out my Usmash tendencies with Utilt but Fsmash still gets me in trouble. Though it has come through 50% of the time which has been shocking and satisfying. But in a heated match 50% accuracy with a move that samus bites too hard on isn't very reliable.

I wonder why they made samus go in hard with most her moves? She leaves herself vulnerable all too often but oh well.. Maybe I should try tilting her Fsmash down... Maybe that'll connect more

Down angled fsmash does hit more reliably especially vs. shorties. Unfortunately the move takes a minor damage penalty (0.5% in the sweet spot 1% in the sour spot). The slight leanback actually makes up angled smash a decent anti-air especially with a pivot.

 

[Yojimbosan]

Personally I like to use the Y button for grab. Helps with my z-air and tether recovery. I like to keep my trigger finger ready to power shield.
Up smash I only try to use beneath platforms and never underestimate the power of the retreating bombs.
Just my 2 cents

 

[JAZZ_]

Personally I like to use the Y button for grab. Helps with my z-air and tether recovery. I like to keep my trigger finger ready to power shield.
Up smash I only try to use beneath platforms and never underestimate the power of the retreating bombs.
Just my 2 cents

that's an interesting idea for control scheme. I may tinker around with that. And Amen on the bombs, very useful. how do you go about jumping? are you a tap jumper?

 

[Yojimbosan]

that's an interesting idea for control scheme. I may tinker around with that. And Amen on the bombs, very useful. how do you go about jumping? are you a tap jumper?

I use the x button (GameCube controller) to jump. I'm used to the 64 controller scheme which had the c buttons for jumps. No tap jump.

 

[Fluidityt]

Hey guys, new to the boards but have stolen so much Samus knowledge from you guys already I feel some thanks are in order!
Wondering if you guys could help me out with getting the most out of my Samus, I almost never use ftilt or and u air chains into screw attack I can only really seem to pull it off if my opponent doesn't di pretty much at all. I have the default control setup but seem to throw out waaay to many fsmashes and am justly getting punished for it, where I assume an ftilt would be a little safer/less laggy... Any advice for a change in controls (using cube controller) maybe?
Just recently started trying to condition myself using SHAD instead of rolling, but I find if I'm up against a good rushdown character I can't space effectively enough and just start rolling rolling rolling always feeling a step behind .
I'd love if some of you guys could take a look at a replay or two of mine and offer any advice you might have?
Been playing since 64 but never mained Samus before, had no intention of doing it with smash 4 but swapped over from zss because God do I love the Charge Shot mind games, sooo satisfying!
Thanks in advance, and it's great to have a resource like this for a character mostly ignored in the competitive discussion, who we all know has tonnes of potential which you are all bringing to the surface

Hey guys, new to the boards but have stolen so much Samus knowledge from you guys already I feel some thanks are in order!
Wondering if you guys could help me out with getting the most out of my Samus, I almost never use ftilt or and u air chains into screw attack I can only really seem to pull it off if my opponent doesn't di pretty much at all. I have the default control setup but seem to throw out waaay to many fsmashes and am justly getting punished for it, where I assume an ftilt would be a little safer/less laggy... Any advice for a change in controls (using cube controller) maybe?
Just recently started trying to condition myself using SHAD instead of rolling, but I find if I'm up against a good rushdown character I can't space effectively enough and just start rolling rolling rolling always feeling a step behind .
I'd love if some of you guys could take a look at a replay or two of mine and offer any advice you might have?
Been playing since 64 but never mained Samus before, had no intention of doing it with smash 4 but swapped over from zss because God do I love the Charge Shot mind games, sooo satisfying!
Thanks in advance, and it's great to have a resource like this for a character mostly ignored in the competitive discussion, who we all know has tonnes of potential which you are all bringing to the surface

Welcome, and I really love your avatar! I may steal it xD

If you are using pro controller / gamepad, I can offer a control tip. Set Y and X to jump. Now, you can slide your finger from X to A for short hop aerials (super fast ones!) and Y to B for SH CS (good to cover SH spamming foes) and upBoOS. The sliding is *much* faster than tapping / pressing, pretty much a guaranteed short hop (in case you get stressed mid match and do full hops a lot). Sliding is much harder on GC controller, and why I prefer other options, as well as the triggers being total ass n the GC.


And yes, I started on 64 too, so I grew up on the GC controller, but when I plopped in the Wii u for first time I was immediately sold on the gampead control layout >.> Sold my gamecube adapter

 

[Jackal Eire]

I know, Usmash should be better, in fact, I find the only smash that samus has that's proven reliable is down (great roll behind protection). Fsmash has such animation lag after the fact that, coupled with the fact that the hitbox is freaking finicky makes it such a risky option, highly punishable. I've managed to trade out my Usmash tendencies with Utilt but Fsmash still gets me in trouble. Though it has come through 50% of the time which has been shocking and satisfying. But in a heated match 50% accuracy with a move that samus bites too hard on isn't very reliable.

I wonder why they made samus go in hard with most her moves? She leaves herself vulnerable all too often but oh well.. Maybe I should try tilting her Fsmash down... Maybe that'll connect more

Yeah its a pain alright, comes out pretty fast, but is quite laggy...I'm finding times when they would just pop up in front of you and spotdodge your fsmash a SHAD bair can catch them as they come out of their spot dodge, and sweet spotted that can kill nice and early near the edge. It sucks that they made her moves so laggy but then I look at some of Kayjay's or Xyro's videos and I'm like "is this the same samus I'm using?"

 

[Jackal Eire]

Not listed here, but upb OoS needs to be a punish on reaction for a lot of moves such as dash attacks or poorly spaced aerials. It is your replacement for shield grab as a Samus main.

I guess I'll advertise my guide some more

http://smashboards.com/guides/outsmarting-mother-brain.343/

That guide is great Xygonn thanks, as are the gameplay videos you have on the other thread... OoS upb definitely is a great punish, saw I think it was Chozox at paragon beasting with that and ever since been trying to get it down!

Welcome, and I really love your avatar! I may steal it xD

If you are using pro controller / gamepad, I can offer a control tip. Set Y and X to jump. Now, you can slide your finger from X to A for short hop aerials (super fast ones!) and Y to B for SH CS (good to cover SH spamming foes) and upBoOS. The sliding is *much* faster than tapping / pressing, pretty much a guaranteed short hop (in case you get stressed mid match and do full hops a lot). Sliding is much harder on GC controller, and why I prefer other options, as well as the triggers being total *** n the GC.


And yes, I started on 64 too, so I grew up on the GC controller, but when I plopped in the Wii u for first time I was immediately sold on the gampead control layout >.> Sold my gamecube adapter

Thanks for the warm welcome, and how have I not been doing this the past 6 months?? Not quite used to it yet but am working on it!

Started with the pro controller which I have to say I really liked, then got the GC one and its certainly not changed my life or anything...but it just feels so right...kidney buttons forever...but yeah the triggers suck, didn't even think before I got it that the shielding isn't analogue anymore

Loving the community so far guys, working on getting some replays up for the gameplay thread soon. As much as I'd love to go to a tournament, there seems to be virtually no smash scene here (Ireland) so I guess I'm waiting for this tournament mode to get released...cos its totally coming you guys...right?

 

[the.tok]

Personally I like to use the Y button for grab. Helps with my z-air and tether recovery. I like to keep my trigger finger ready to power shield.

Hey funny I use a similar control scheme.
Last tournament I went, when I was setting up my opponents were all going WTF ^^ Had Y for grab since brawl, it also helped with the chaingrabs

Y for grab is so much easier to use z-air, and It allowed me to free Z to jump to make OoS up+B easier too