Interest in creating tutorials. What do you guys think?

[Drodeka]

I've never made a formal introduction, so this thread will serve as that as well, sorry if that bores you, but you can skip it if you'd like.

Hey smashers, I'm Drodeka (fancy that). I'm a doofy 19 year old that has been playing video games since about the age of 3. Around the time I started playing SNES, I took a heavy liking to fighting games, always trying to make my combo the strongest and longest I could, mostly on MK3.
I first played Smash 64 when I was five, and it blew me away. It was a little nerds dream game, but I'm sure you all know that. I pursued the near perfection of the single player classic mode at first, trying to rack up high scores and trying to find out what all the bonuses meant. When I was eventually showed the internet, I found out about perfect landing and some really cheap combos and fixed myself on learning these.
Smash 64 was my favorite game of all time until I heard about melee ( I didn't get to play it until around 04 though, very poor family).
My melee career wasn't much different, except that I didn't learn about wavedashing or really know about the competitive scene at all while playing it. I saw a couple videos of people doing crazy things (most likely tournament matches), but by that time I was pretty much done with the game, having nobody to fight but computers and becoming a foster child suddenly with LOTS of games to play.
Long story short, PM comes out, and I very soon set myself to learning all the tricks and "secrets" with each character before settling on the competitive scene.

While I'm working on taking my gameplay in a different direction, I want to share the knowledge I've gained and the tricks I've used to learn each tech and what I can do with them.

The information I can offer is perfect for intermediate players that want to know what to do to make the advanced techniques work for them. I have already taught multiple people (IRL) that had no previous knowledge of these techniques how to apply them effectively and perform them consistently, and it's something I've loved doing.

So now, I want to share it with the perfect community for doing so; a gathered collection of players that are probably looking to step up their game.

I really just want to know how many of you are interested in the production of these tutorials, and what you might like to learn from them.

My tutorials would be 480p videos, with on-screen inputs and commentary.
I would like to start with a couple tricks on DI, Wavelanding, Dash Dancing, L-Cancelling, Edgeplay, and finally SHFFL-ing.

The reason I want to start there, is because these are the most widely discussed and known techniques, and by learning from the production of these videos, I could then use the experience and community feedback to produce the intro series, which takes a player from beginner to intermediate. AKA - how to START learning these techniques.

I play a multitude of characters, and I know most to all of the specific tech and tricks for each one. I want to help as many players improve as possible, so I want a lot of interaction with the boards as I go along.

Let me know what you guys think, and if you're interested, recommend something you'd like to see covered!
PS: I am willing to do a Q&A stream in which I can answer the questions while displaying the answers on almost any given night.

 

[Drodeka]

I also would like to dabble in matchup tutorials.

 

[JakieWinks]

If I could recommend something, it would be to add something about how to train with a certain tech skill. Most tutorials, at least what I've seen, show a specific tech, how to do it, but don't really show a proper way to train it. I've had to browse the boards to get the best training methods for tech.
For example: to train/further master your wavedash; verse a lvl 9 cpu and try to stay alive the whole 8 minutes without attacking, and running away only from wavedashing. I also did a similar thing for shffling; by beating a lvl 9 only from shffling with your favorite character. And teching; verse a lvl 9 (go figure) and every time you miss a tech, jump off and lose a stock. It's brutal but it'll force your muscle memory to press a bumper when you're about to hit the stage.

Also; if you could make character specific tutorials for P:M, because there is most characters have either no tutorial or an outdated one. I've learned my characters mostly by watching sets of pros and combining my style with the fancy stuff they do.

Good luck!

 

[Drodeka]

If I could recommend something, it would be to add something about how to train with a certain tech skill. Most tutorials, at least what I've seen, show a specific tech, how to do it, but don't really show a proper way to train it. I've had to browse the boards to get the best training methods for tech.
For example: to train/further master your wavedash; verse a lvl 9 cpu and try to stay alive the whole 8 minutes without attacking, and running away only from wavedashing. I also did a similar thing for shffling; by beating a lvl 9 only from shffling with your favorite character. And teching; verse a lvl 9 (go figure) and every time you miss a tech, jump off and lose a stock. It's brutal but it'll force your muscle memory to press a bumper when you're about to hit the stage.

Also; if you could make character specific tutorials for P:M, because there is most characters have either no tutorial or an outdated one. I've learned my characters mostly by watching sets of pros and combining my style with the fancy stuff they do.

Good luck!

Oh yes, I definitely have exercises prepared for a lot of the tech, and I want to have deeper explanations as to what each tech can really do for you, and why to practice them in the first place.

My wavedashing exercise was to find out what your characters perfect wavedash looks like, then test how many times you can cover FD back and forth using only wavedashes, setting yourself goals each time. Once you can reach your goal 3 times without messing up, you're starting to get a handle on it.

Applying wavedashes is much different though. To learn to apply them, first you have to practice wavedashing and taking action out of it. Then, wavedashing twice to a short hop, tilt, or smash in the opposite direction.

 

[Fortress]

I mean, we already have this one here:

But I do like your idea of on-screen overlays displaying the inputs and whatnot. Could be handy, and commentary would be a lot better than text (using both together would probably be good).

My personal Wavedashing training 'regiment' was to pick Mario, go to Battlefield, and do 'laps'. Start at one of the bottom corners, wavedash across to the other one, jump and waveland across each of the platforms, drop after the last one, and repeat.

 

[Drodeka]

I mean, we already have this one here:

But I do like your idea of on-screen overlays displaying the inputs and whatnot. Could be handy, and commentary would be a lot better than text (using both together would probably be good).

My personal Wavedashing training 'regiment' was to pick Mario, go to Battlefield, and do 'laps'. Start at one of the bottom corners, wavedash across to the other one, jump and waveland across each of the platforms, drop after the last one, and repeat.

Not only does that video give very little instruction on how to learn the techniques (with the exception of a few), it has no commentary, and: It's Melee. Doing the tutorials in Project M is priority number one to me.

And that's cool! I did the same thing on Battlefield but with Marth. Well, I've done it with a lot of people now. Hyrule Castle is a fun one to do as well. Not for laps, but just wavedashing-landing around the stage.

EDIT: Also, as I said in my OP, I want to explain the techniques in a way that makes the viewer realize they WANT to perform these techs as a conscious decision. I want to teach them when they should wavedash, and tell them why they will want to wavedash, not just say something general like "if they dash attack, you can wavedash".

 

[Fortress]

Not only does that video give very little instruction on how to learn the techniques (with the exception of a few), it has no commentary, and: It's Melee. Doing the tutorials in Project M is priority number one to me.

To be fair, a lot of the tech in that video is self-explanatory (short-hopping? fast-falling?), and a lot of it does get explained pretty well. Another thing is that a lot of the tech comes with an example of its application.

Also, it being Melee does not matter at all. Every single thing in that video is applicable in Project M. Every single thing.

Yeah, one thing that tutorial doesn't do (which it didn't set out to do in the first place) is go over in more depth why and when you want to be doing certain tech. The focus in it is more on what a tech is and how to perform it.

 

[Drodeka]

To be fair, a lot of the tech in that video is self-explanatory (short-hopping? fast-falling?), and a lot of it does get explained pretty well. Another thing is that a lot of the tech comes with an example of its application.

Also, it being Melee does not matter at all. Every single thing in that video is applicable in Project M. Every single thing.

Yeah, one thing that tutorial doesn't do (which it didn't set out to do in the first place) is go over in more depth why and when you want to be doing certain tech. The focus in it is more on what a tech is and how to perform it.

I want the tutorials to be in PM for a couple reasons. Firstly, it looks better, I mean c'mon. I know there are TONS of melee tutorials, but PM is thriving and a lot of people would prefer to view tutorials specifically for this new game. And, there are things you can do in PM you can't do in Melee, and I am going to cover those.

And short hopping, while absolutely self explanatory, I've seen many people struggle with it, especially while "on the fly" or in combat. I'll admit though, it's pretty hard to get in depth on a concept that is literally "tap the button pretty fast".

 

[Fortress]

I want the tutorials to be in PM for a couple reasons. Firstly, it looks better, I mean c'mon. I know there are TONS of melee tutorials, but PM is thriving and a lot of people would prefer to view tutorials specifically for this new game. And, there are things you can do in PM you can't do in Melee, and I am going to cover those.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm all for a tutorial like that in PM. I was only saying that everything in that tutorial still applies, since you said something like "plus it's in Melee". Plus there's stuff in PM that you couldn't do in Melee like you said, such as the DACUS.

 

[Drodeka]

Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm all for a tutorial like that in PM. I was only saying that everything in that tutorial still applies, since you said something like "plus it's in Melee". Plus there's stuff in PM that you couldn't do in Melee like you said, such as the DACUS.

My favorite new addition is double pivots. With some projectiles (Ivy, Toon Link) you can get some sweet surprise combos in.

 

[Fortress]

Make sure to include footstooling.

http://smashboards.com/threads/footstools-and-why-you-should-be-using-them.334385/

 

[Drodeka]

Make sure to include footstooling.

http://smashboards.com/threads/footstools-and-why-you-should-be-using-them.334385/

I'll include it, but I am definitely not going to act like it is a big deal. You either make good use of it, or you don't. It's really not that tough to do once you've grasped basic movement in this game, and it's relatively useless in almost every situation with almost every character. My favorite use of it is Stun-stooling with ZSS.

 

[Fortress]

Pretty sure it's a big deal. It's giving everybody a meteor of sorts, and it's a lot more technical than it seems. I'd include it. I mean, just as an example, footstooling a grounded opponent and wavelanding on a platform above them is just one of the many, many things you can do with it.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

I would encourage you to do these tutorials ^^ We just need more new players and generally they are attracted better via yt than smashboards

 

[Drodeka]

Pretty sure it's a big deal. It's giving everybody a meteor of sorts, and it's a lot more technical than it seems. I'd include it. I mean, just as an example, footstooling a grounded opponent and wavelanding on a platform above them is just one of the many, many things you can do with it.

You can also gimp characters with horizontal recovery, immediate DJC aerials, and of course, stun stool (shouts to daft@).
That still doesn't change that you could have done something much more effective in almost every situation.

 

[Time/SpaceMage]

You can also gimp characters with horizontal recovery, immediate DJC aerials, and of course, stun stool (shouts to daft@).
That still doesn't change that you could have done something much more effective in almost every situation.

Even if it's not the most effective option, it is hardly ever expected and often forgotten about. That in itself is useful.

I really like the sound of a modern set of tutorials. More power to you! (I still need to work on DACUS, so I'll suggest that.) Also show what can be done AGAINST the technique in question; for instance, you would use projectiles or horizontal-traveling moves to catch people in a wavedash, or (as I'm told) can angle your shield to throw off l-cancelling, and especially smash-DI'ing out of popular new moves like Ness's PK Fire.

 

[Drodeka]

Even if it's not the most effective option, it is hardly ever expected and often forgotten about. That in itself is useful.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but can't footstooling only be done on a character that ISN'T taking any action (aside from jump)?
That simple fact means ANY attack you would have used instead of the footstool would have landed, so unless you have a sick combo that starts with footstool, it's literally never the better option.

The counter techinque idea is a good one, but definitely something that belongs in it's own series. Fingers crossed that I make it that far.

 

[Rongunshu]

I recommend if possible to cover bomb jump with link in project m, it's hard to have link as main if you can't bomb jump with link on PM If possible that would be lovely

 

[Drodeka]

I recommend if possible to cover bomb jump with link in project m, it's hard to have link as main if you can't bomb jump with link on PM If possible that would be lovely

It's called glide tossing, and one of my mains right now is Toon Link, so you can definitely expect good coverage on that.

 

[CyberZixx]

If you can do it well go then go for it. The reality is that if your end product is sub par people will not watch it. Having a video that succinctly explains and demonstrates the utility for all useful tech could be nice. All the power to you on this project.

 

[Jesh♥]

I actually signed up and came here because I'm personally just getting into PM and the smash community in general and I've been looking for more guidance on the metagame. I watched the 32 minute megavideo--as most people have, I'm sure--and I've been practicing wavedashing and SHFFLing to start out with (as I've seen from many that those are the most crucial and game changing to learn). While I seem to do alright in practice mode just doing them repetitively, it'd be nice to know where and when the techniques are helpful against an actual opponent without a punishing amount of try/fail.

On top of that, metaphysical concepts (Zoning, Pressure, etc) are something I'd love to see demonstrated and explained--watching tournament matches is a very good example, but only seeing these things from my own limited perspective I really crave a more in-depth look that I honestly am unable to glean for myself.

While I'm here (and to avoid making a new thread) do any of the PM players here have any tips on 1) practicing tech in a methodical way on my own, and 2) transferring that practice into using it in actual matches.

Some things I've already found are really simple and easy to incorporate into traditional versus gameplay because of how simply useful they are (the two main ones for me are teching, I think it's called, where you press R or L before you hit the ground from a freefall and immediately get to your feet/roll away, and short hopping, which I've used to employ aerials into my playstyle a whole lot more. I also L-cancel moves rarely when I remember to, but I just started practicing these things <a week ago so I don't expect to be proficient at them just yet). Things like Wavedashing, in comparison, seem very confusing to me, because I don't know where and when to do it, and I feel much less confident in pulling them out on the fly.

Don't mean to derail the purpose of this thread, just have enough mind about forum etiquette to not start an entirely new topic based on just asking for help about these things.

 

[guedes the brawler]

do it. but please make sure you don't speak, only have text.

 

[Drodeka]

do it. but please make sure you don't speak, only have text.

Why would that be?

 

[guedes the brawler]

Why would that be?

text is far better for everyone. it's far easier to understand text than speak.

 

[Sixth-Sense]

i really hope you do this man, it would be greatly appreciated! i also agree with guedes the brawler, you should keep it text only unless your confident in your voice

 

[ShadowDigo]

I hope you can put up some good tutorials, because there are always some casual players looking to take their game to the next level.

 

[Rongunshu]

I would really like this to happen, if you do then you'll have an automatic fan of your tutorials from me.

I would honestly prefer voice than text because I seem to learn better in my opinion like that.

 

[Drodeka]

text is far better for everyone. it's far easier to understand text than speak.

Almost always, the voice would be accompanied by text, and when it isn't, YouTube has a closed caption feature that usually works really well, so this wouldn't be a problem.

 

[guedes the brawler]

Almost always, the voice would be accompanied by text, and when it isn't, YouTube has a closed caption feature that usually works really well, so this wouldn't be a problem.

Then isn't the voice pointless? IIRC Youtube's caption things usually don't work very well (unless you want to laugh.)

Like, if you are doing text anyway, it's less work, makes the tutorials less annoying (no offense to your voice, since i never heard it).


smash Bros itself uses no voices for it's tutorials. in fact, it would be interesting if you based your videos on that (similar font, music and such)

 

[Guilu]

I personally would prefer voiceovers, but it does require some additional work to make sure you're clearly understandable and have good quality. On the other hand a technical tutorial is imo much better in a text-based environment with video excerpts, rather than a video environment with text panels. Match analysis could get away with text commentary, although my personal preference still goes to voiceovers.

 

[Drodeka]

I've been thinking about it and I'm pretty sure I'd rather do it with Text to introduce what I'm talking about and then use voice from then on, except for on screen diagrams and what not.

 

[Time/SpaceMage]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but can't footstooling only be done on a character that ISN'T taking any action (aside from jump)?
That simple fact means ANY attack you would have used instead of the footstool would have landed, so unless you have a sick combo that starts with footstool, it's literally never the better option.

The counter techinque idea is a good one, but definitely something that belongs in it's own series. Fingers crossed that I make it that far.

Sorry for the late reply; it's hard to quote on a phone.
Just so we're on the same page, have you also read that footstool topic Fortress posted earlier?

Yes, so you would be using it to punish mistakes. It's still a midair action that's active on frame 1, so characters with slow aerials could get a combo off from one that they might not be able to get out in time otherwise (say, for a read tech). And, it's something else to watch out for if you are expecting to tech a different move. (Also let's be real, I want to see some good videos of stylin' footstool followups and footstool->waveland.)

...Come to think of it, it could be faster than regrab during a chain throw. *strokes beard* Hmmmmm!

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

I thought about this before, I just never went with it for smash. My videos were pretty successful for the last game I played, merbe i try diz out

 

[Drodeka]

Figured I'd post an update so you guys know I'm not dropping this idea. I left my laptop's charger at Smash weekly and Smash weekly is cancelled this week, so I won't be getting it back until next Thursday, but over that weekend I'll probably be working on the first video(s?).
I've done two drafts and I'm kind of pleased with how the second could work, but this I've found this isn't the kind of project that all makes sense while it's on paper, if you know what I mean. Also, I think I'm actually going to start off with a match analysis (maybe), so that I can get some feedback on how I sound, how the editing works out and what not, because the last thing I want to do is screw up tutorials and leave something out or leave the viewer with questions. The whole tutorial endeavor is much bigger than anything I've applied myself to since graduating last year, so I just ask for a little bit of time to get these things going with the quality I'd like to give.
Thanks for the support so far, you guys have been awesome.

In other news, I've also played a LOT of Dark Souls 2, so my mind isn't 100% on Smash right now. Smash Gods, forgive me, for I have sinned

 

[Drodeka]

I captured footage, and I've been editing, but I've run into a very large problem.
All of my apps are rejecting my mic, except GarageBand (obviously I'm not using GarageBand for this, but still).

I don't really know what to do, but it's likely I'll be releasing some voiceless tutorials first because of this problem.
Sorry for the inconvenience

 

[1FD]

I captured footage, and I've been editing.

I thought about this before, I just never went with it for smash. My videos were pretty successful for the last game I played, merbe i try diz out

COMBO IT DO IIIIIIIIIT