Integrating Character Techniques

[KingDaiGurren]

As is known Kirby's specials in this game aren't the best, nor are endless dair strings the smartest way to approach. So my question is how do you as a Kirby main integrate other character's techniques, combos, and neutral specials into your play style to get the most out of your overall game?

Personally I feel that Cpt falcon is a great character to learn combos off of but that's just me. Thoughts?

 

[kirbyfan66]

Having been a Melee Kirby main, and a Brawl player where I mained, shock, Kirby (I mained him in 64 too but he has options in that game), I learned how to play really patiently and creatively, but I don't think using those games helps as far as advice goes.

For this game, my most successful secondaries are Pit, Pac Man, and Yoshi. Pit helps me shark and it's a big help in that regard. Pac Man helps a lot with playing at a distance, even though he has a lot more options than Kirby does. And the few times I go on an offensive rampage with Kirby, I play similarly to how I play with Yoshi.

Falcon is a good combo character, but his combos are way different from Kirby's.

 

[KingDaiGurren]

___________

 

[KingDaiGurren]

Having been a Melee Kirby main, and a Brawl player where I mained, shock, Kirby (I mained him in 64 too but he has options in that game), I learned how to play really patiently and creatively, but I don't think using those games helps as far as advice goes.

For this game, my most successful secondaries are Pit, Pac Man, and Yoshi. Pit helps me shark and it's a big help in that regard. Pac Man helps a lot with playing at a distance, even though he has a lot more options than Kirby does. And the few times I go on an offensive rampage with Kirby, I play similarly to how I play with Yoshi.

Falcon is a good combo character, but his combos are way different from Kirby's.

I agree that falcon and Kirby are totally different characters and that the majority of the setups aren't even remotely the same ( falcon uair to fair killing potential) but I feel that in terms of mirroring some of his combos and modifying them to fit Kirby might be able to work.

Learning characters with projectiles helps a lot too though. Pit's my secondary and knowing how to use arrows effectively helps Lot. Granted some aren't as easy as say olimar where all pikmin do knockback but still I feel like learning the ways that some other charcters approach, zone, and make use or their projectiles could do wonders for the little dude.

 

[RedNova]

I use Kirby as a close-quarter brawler, trying to combo as much as I can, but other that the usual stuff, I like to use copy a lot.

I never miss the oportunity to Inhale, and then using the copied specials as their owner would, like using flamethrower for spacing, or Needle Storm for camping (Kirbs can duck under Sheik's own needles).

Because theres next to no tournaments on my region, I always practice with a friend who is one of the best Megaman I have see. The matchup is a little hard, with Megaman having a little advantage. But when I copy his Metal Blade, the matchup is more balanced.

 

[KingDaiGurren]

I use Kirby as a close-quarter brawler, trying to combo as much as I can, but other that the usual stuff, I like to use copy a lot.

I never miss the oportunity to Inhale, and then using the copied specials as their owner would, like using flamethrower for spacing, or Needle Storm for camping (Kirbs can duck under Sheik's own needles).

Because theres next to no tournaments on my region, I always practice with a friend who is one of the best Megaman I have see. The matchup is a little hard, with Megaman having a little advantage. But when I copy his Metal Blade, the matchup is more balanced.

My qquestion would then be how do you use the copy abilities like mega man's metal blade then? Do you use it as a mix up? Edge guard? Or what?

 

[Green Kirby]

The best combo I have found in ssb4 is the dair to f smash or d smash. most characters have no time to shield after getting hit with the dair witch gives you a free punish with a smash attack do to the very very low lag on the move.

 

[KingDaiGurren]

The best combo I have found in ssb4 is the dair to f smash or d smash. most characters have no time to shield after getting hit with the dair witch gives you a free punish with a smash attack do to the very very low lag on the move.

The only issue with that though is that it's extremely punishable. Better players in my experience will typically shield an f or d smash.

That's besides the point though. Has anyone tried experimenting with dair into a copy ability though? Like dair into waRio chomp, egg lay, or duck hunt's can?

 

[Green Kirby]

I am not a big user of the copy ability (mostly because I like to keep my kirby side option open) but it have found that a dair to charizard fire. This is a good option for doubles as it allows for your teammate to get a punish opportunity. I have not tried this with bowser's fire but I would assume it would work the same.

 

[RedNova]

My qquestion would then be how do you use the copy abilities like mega man's metal blade then? Do you use it as a mix up? Edge guard? Or what?

Actually both of them. I just memorize how my opponent is using them, or if I play that character, how would I use them. For mix-ups, spacing or edge guarding.

 

[KingDaiGurren]

I am not a big user of the copy ability (mostly because I like to keep my kirby side option open) but it have found that a dair to charizard fire. This is a good option for doubles as it allows for your teammate to get a punish opportunity. I have not tried this with bowser's fire but I would assume it would work the same.

Kirbycide isn't the best option in this game as mash outs result in getting foot stooled.I suggest just spitting them out when you're off the stage. But I do like the idea of dair to flame breath.

 

[KingDaiGurren]

Actually both of them. I just memorize how my opponent is using them, or if I play that character, how would I use them. For mix-ups, spacing or edge guarding.

I think I'd do the same. I've tried doing item dashing with Kirby but it's not the best option because it doesn't set up well for anything.

I would think you could use it to force decisions though imho

 

[Green Kirby]

Kirbycide isn't the best option in this game as mash outs result in getting foot stooled.I suggest just spitting them out when you're off the stage. But I do like the idea of dair to flame breath.

Sorry I used Kirbycide incorrectly. Ill inhale then drop for a second then I spit them out against the stage. On some stages like FD this can cause a stage spike-ish effect, it doesn't send them straight down like a spike but will send them downward witch will usually take them out of their recovery range.

 

[KingDaiGurren]

Sorry I used Kirbycide incorrectly. Ill inhale then drop for a second then I spit them out against the stage. On some stages like FD this can cause a stage spike-ish effect, it doesn't send them straight down like a spike but will send them downward witch will usually take them out of their recovery range.

Oh okay. Yeah shooting your opponent under the stage is a great option. Typically I won't use copy ability either but I'm trying to work on using all of Kirby's options rather than just his main tools. Under the stage shots are best for characters with low vertical Recoveries. Shooting towards blast zones is better considering it can get a kill and cause horizontal gimps[/quote]

 

[Green Kirby]

Oh okay. Yeah shooting your opponent under the stage is a great option. Typically I won't use copy ability either but I'm trying to work on using all of Kirby's options rather than just his main tools. Under the stage shots are best for characters with low vertical Recoveries. Shooting towards blast zones is better considering it can get a kill and cause horizontal gimps

[/quote]
Shooting into blast zones is a good idea but most of the time I find myself facing the stage so it is the better option for the situation.

 

[RedNova]

Shooting into blast zones is a good idea but most of the time I find myself facing the stage so it is the better option for the situation.[/quote]

You know what could work? Using copy instead of spitting. Even in you dont plan to use the ability, ot does more damage than the star spit, and at lower percents (i cant really remember, but I guess its up to 40%) it can combo into bAir

 

[KingDaiGurren]

Shooting into blast zones is a good idea but most of the time I find myself facing the stage so it is the better option for the situation.

You know what could work? Using copy instead of spitting. Even in you dont plan to use the ability, ot does more damage than the star spit, and at lower percents (i cant really remember, but I guess its up to 40%) it can combo into bAir[/quote]

That option is there but the issue is copy puts your opponent overhead which in a lot of situations isn't the best place for them to be. For example if you copy bowser and put him overhead he could respond with the majority of his aerials or a down b. Spitting your opponent out alllows for better follow up. Copy is better at lower percentage.

 

[Green Kirby]

You know what could work? Using copy instead of spitting. Even in you dont plan to use the ability, ot does more damage than the star spit, and at lower percents (i cant really remember, but I guess its up to 40%) it can combo into bAir

That option is there but the issue is copy puts your opponent overhead which in a lot of situations isn't the best place for them to be. For example if you copy bowser and put him overhead he could respond with the majority of his aerials or a down b. Spitting your opponent out alllows for better follow up. Copy is better at lower percentage.[/quote]

That may work but I agree that the spit out option will be the safer and smarter option in 90% of the scenarios you will encounter.

 

[KingDaiGurren]

All things aside. Sticking to the main topic has anyone found any ways to utilize techniques from other characters on Kirby? I know that the jab lock to grab that most foxes do is viable. same with throwing out neutral b and shielding for pikachu and Duckhunt

 

[RedNova]

All things aside. Sticking to the main topic has anyone found any ways to utilize techniques from other characters on Kirby? I know that the jab lock to grab that most foxes do is viable. same with throwing out neutral b and shielding for pikachu and Duckhunt

I can confirm that the jab combo to grab works, and its very useful. But aside from the copied special moves, I can't find any other technique. Kirby is pretty unique

 

[KingDaiGurren]

In my experience utilizing reverse b has been really helpful as a mixup

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

That is true
Kirby can be unique and is definently.
I will agree his specials are situational, but IMO his final cutter is the best and not only for recovering, but I use it as offense too.
If you space it right, and use it against certain characters, it can be quite useful, At low percents I use it from either a Fthrow or Bthrow. Or if my opponent approaches me a lot, it's good for getting them away.
I gotta say, I feel like grounded stone may be a bit underrated?(I don't really use it much myself)
I mean I feel like against fast characters or large hotbox characters that constantly play aggressive? It's useful for spacing because of the landing hotbox and is faster when used on the ground then in the air.
It can push opponents back a good distance, but you better make sure when to use it.

If your going against certain characters though(Shulk,Lucario,Samus,Zelda,Peach,Marth,Robin,Villager,Falco,Mario,Pikachu,Dr.Mario)
Then I would recommend trying to get the copy ability if you get the chance, many neutral specials are very good and can almost turn the tides completely against your opponent when you have them.

Falco,Dr.Mario, Pikachu and Marios are great because Kirby can use those in conjunction with his multiple jumps, and allows him to camp slightly better then the owners.
Shulks- I doubt I have to explain why, just get it, learn each art, and it's almost garunteed win.
Peach- Having a counter that does decent damage and knock back doesn't hurt
Zelda- having her reflecting move would make her projectiles useless, forcing her to do what she is possible the worst at.
Villager- I also doubt I have to explain.
Marth- Kirbys would hit lower then Martha and if you break the shield, FIRST, taunt because you can xD and SECOND, charge that hammer and watch you hit the home run.
Lucario,Samus- They have powerful long distanced projectiles that can be great when used with your jumps
Robin- The thunder moves can seriously help you just need to understand how it works, however it does have limited use before it automatically discards the copy ability.

Kirby in teams will just dominate if you know what your doing.

 

[KingDaiGurren]

That is true
Kirby can be unique and is definently.
I will agree his specials are situational, but IMO his final cutter is the best and not only for recovering, but I use it as offense too.
If you space it right, and use it against certain characters, it can be quite useful, At low percents I use it from either a Fthrow or Bthrow. Or if my opponent approaches me a lot, it's good for getting them away.
I gotta say, I feel like grounded stone may be a bit underrated?(I don't really use it much myself)
I mean I feel like against fast characters or large hotbox characters that constantly play aggressive? It's useful for spacing because of the landing hotbox and is faster when used on the ground then in the air.
It can push opponents back a good distance, but you better make sure when to use it.

If your going against certain characters though(Shulk,Lucario,Samus,Zelda,Peach,Marth,Robin,Villager,Falco,Mario,Pikachu,Dr.Mario)
Then I would recommend trying to get the copy ability if you get the chance, many neutral specials are very good and can almost turn the tides completely against your opponent when you have them.

Falco,Dr.Mario, Pikachu and Marios are great because Kirby can use those in conjunction with his multiple jumps, and allows him to camp slightly better then the owners.
Shulks- I doubt I have to explain why, just get it, learn each art, and it's almost garunteed win.
Peach- Having a counter that does decent damage and knock back doesn't hurt
Zelda- having her reflecting move would make her projectiles useless, forcing her to do what she is possible the worst at.
Villager- I also doubt I have to explain.
Marth- Kirbys would hit lower then Martha and if you break the shield, FIRST, taunt because you can xD and SECOND, charge that hammer and watch you hit the home run.
Lucario,Samus- They have powerful long distanced projectiles that can be great when used with your jumps
Robin- The thunder moves can seriously help you just need to understand how it works, however it does have limited use before it automatically discards the copy ability.

Kirby in teams will just dominate if you know what your doing.

I agree, in Brawl I used final cutter much more than in this game considering it's phenomenal range, I still think it's good but the nerf really lowered its priority in my opinion. Stone imo best used as a quick stone mix up. Even if you change fast on the ground it's still risky.

Shulk and villager are the best to absorb. The stat change for shulk really changes the game. Villager's pocket is great for the invincibility frames it gives you. I don't agree as much with falco and marth though. The only place I can see using falco's lasers is when you're falling from a distance but marth isn't as good of an option. Although you get a shield breaking move there's still end lag if you miss. I could only see it as a serious mixup for when your opponent is falling out of the air.

 

[RedNova]

Yeah, Monado Kirby is a beast. Combo the absolute hell out of your opponent with Buster, and then finish him off with Smash. Aslo Shield and Speed really help out with survival and tech chasing

 

[KingDaiGurren]

Yeah, Monado Kirby is a beast. Combo the absolute hell out of your opponent with Buster, and then finish him off with Smash. Aslo Shield and Speed really help out with survival and tech chasing

Speed and buster are great and jump has potential to create even better combos, but Again that's purely situational.

Aside from specials does anyone know if it is possible to chaingrab a fthrow to fair to grab In the way that Luigi's do?

 

[RedNova]

Aside from specials does anyone know if it is possible to chaingrab a fthrow to fair to grab In the way that Luigi's do?

Unfortunately no, the chain grab only works with Luigi. You can combo fthrow into fair, tho.

Edit: Or... Did you mean with Buster active?

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

Unfortunately no, the chain grab only works with Luigi. You can combo fthrow into fair, tho.

Edit: Or... Did you mean with Buster active?

If anything, I wish they at least gavekirby his combo ability in his throws back along with the damage his down throw does, because right now, it's basically useless.

 

[KingDaiGurren]

I had meant regardless on any character. Considering how poor his approaching game is I was trying to consider any and all possibilities to improve his overall meta

 

[Green Kirby]

I have found that half hop to fair seems to be a fairly decent approach for kirby. Usually you can hit you opponent with just the first part of the fair and while they are in hit stun you can follow up with another fair. Another option is the pivot to bair.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

How about they give him some noticeably different specials
And drastically improve inhale
Idk it would make sense for Kirby to be very light, have rather low ranged attacks, and a poor approach, unless they made his moveset forms of all his copy abilities from his games.

 

[RedNova]

Yeah, the first hits of fair do enough hitstun to follow up with Fsmash, d-tilt, jab or grab. Its a really good approach.

 

[KingDaiGurren]

How about they give him some noticeably different specials
And drastically improve inhale
Idk it would make sense for Kirby to be very light, have rather low ranged attacks, and a poor approach, unless they made his moveset forms of all his copy abilities from his games.

They did that though.... The only difference is that he doesn't have his individual hats for each power

 

[KingDaiGurren]

Hopefully this will help. Although it's not exactly tech from other characters if you were able to REALLLY work it into your style it could no doubt work wonders. Watch the intro section then Kirby comes up at around 11:20

http://youtu.be/zJ_ZzAvSFis

 

[Nickname87]

The only issue with that though is that it's extremely punishable. Better players in my experience will typically shield an f or d smash.

That's besides the point though. Has anyone tried experimenting with dair into a copy ability though? Like dair into waRio chomp, egg lay, or duck hunt's can?

I made a guide a while ago with all characters and their copied ability. it shows a lot of ways to set up and some have combos.

 

[KingDaiGurren]

I made a guide a while ago with all characters and their copied ability. it shows a lot of ways to set up and some have combos.

That sounds great could you post the link?

 

[Nickname87]

That sounds great could you post the link?

sure http://smashboards.com/guides/the-pink-mad-hatter.232/