Instead of Pokemon Trainer returning, they should just implement a stock switching mechanic for each character

[Crazy Hand 2001]

And split Squritle, Ivysaur and Charizard into their own characters

By stock switching, I meant you start as Mario, get KO'd and on your next stock you automatically switch to DK, or you can press the jump button (up on control stick only way to jump) also switches.

Assuming all controllers have X and Y to jump, just map switching to one or both of them.

 

[Misery Brick]

They're technically are their own characters, the only thing they're missing is a unique Down B and an individual slot on the CSS. So I don't necessarily agree with that, because the switching mechanic allows for mixups and different match ups while faithfully representing the core mechanics of the Pokemon series.
Although I'd love to see something like that for special smash with different characters.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

tbh, I think them together is more of a good thing I used to hate it but seeing Zard in smash 4 Squrtle and ivysaur will help him a lot as a zard main.

 

[Crazy Hand 2001]

They're technically are their own characters, the only thing they're missing is a unique Down B and an individual slot on the CSS. So I don't necessarily agree with that, because the switching mechanic allows for mixups and different match ups while faithfully representing the core mechanics of the Pokemon series.
Although I'd love to see something like that for special smash with different characters.

Well who uses all three Pokémon at once?

This mode would allow you to switch and still have a down special. Why are you against it?

 

[Pyra]

Why are you against it?

(up on control stick only way to jump)

I don't think I would want that for any reason.

 

[Misery Brick]

Well who uses all three Pokémon at once?

This mode would allow you to switch and still have a down special. Why are you against it?

Only because that's the defining trait of the character. Also coming from someone who mained him back in Brawl and is planning to for Ultimate, I'd always cycle through the characters to switch up my game plan or force someone to use a different strategy. Honestly, that was one of the reasons why I didn't use any of the individual Pokemon in Project M outside of maybe Charizard.
Like I said, I'd love a mode where a stock could be utilized for a different character, it'd give it more of a MvC feel which would be amazing.

 

[Crazy Hand 2001]

I don't think I would want that for any reason.

What if only one of X or Y is mapped to jump?

 

[IsmaR]

What if only one of X or Y is mapped to jump?

The game is going to be made for more controllers in mind than just GCN/Pro controllers.

There are only 6 buttons on Joy-Cons, there are no spare jump buttons.

 

[Crazy Hand 2001]

The game is going to be made for more controllers in mind than just GCN/Pro controllers.

There are only 6 buttons on Joy-Cons, there are no spare jump buttons.

A single joy con has 6 buttons. A pair of joy cons have the same number as a pro controller

They would probably map one of either L or R on one joycon to grab and the other to shield.

Leaving both X and Y to jump

 

[Homelessvagrant]

While I'm all for a rotation mode or whatnot, pokemon trainer should be unified as he is now. I like the idea of the pokemon each having strengths and weaknesses that work off each other. It makes pokemon trainer feel like you are playing a miniature strategy game during a match. I wouldn't remove this unique character feel for the world.

If anything I'd be fine with you being able to play as a solo poke by holding R when selecting the trainer (like zelda in melee) and allowing them to have a different Down B that way. But if I had to choose one or the other, I'll go with Pokemon Trainer as he is now. I love that the trainer himself is being represented. Plus I think Squirtle is a better down B than Rock Smash ever was (though I will miss the move).

 

[kendikong]

Well who uses all three Pokémon at once?

This mode would allow you to switch and still have a down special. Why are you against it?

For example you could switch from ivysaur to zard offstage for more jumps and a better recovery. Theres going to be situations where mid stock switching is strategic

 

[Yosher]

I'm against this idea solely for the fact that I like having Pokémon Trainer in here. In the main games, you play as the Pokémon Trainer and have a team of different Pokémon, and it's just nice to have that aspect of the games represented in Smash Bros, and having a Squirtle, Ivysaur and Charizard tagteam even outside of that potential stock switch mode is great. Because let's be honest, IF such a mode is going to be in, it might not be an online mode, nor will you be able to use it in Classic/All-Star/whatever other single player mode, and as such you'd be stuck using only one character in those modes even as the Trainer Pokémon if your idea is pushed through. Let Pokémon Trainer be Pokémon Trainer, please.

 

[Maikou]

This kind of thing was in Project M, and to be honest, while it was fun, it was also kind of annoying. Switching characters each stock means that if you make a mistake early on and wind up with the wrong character, you've basically already lost at least two stocks. Plus, switching each KO means you can only use that one character for that one stock. Which means if you want to switch, you have to SD and waste a stock just to get who you want. Pokemon Trainer automatically switches Pokemon each stock anyway and as they are now, you can switch in the middle of a stock for whoever fits the current situation, like if you need to recover or have broken the foe's shield and want Charizard's KO moves over Squirtle's combos right there. And seriously, tell me with complete sincerity that Charizard didn't have trouble with comboing in Smash 4 and couldn't have used Squirtle's help in that department.

Even if you only use one Pokemon, while you don't have a down special, that's exactly one less move than the rest of the roster. Losing ONE move doesn't matter a huge amount. And as others have said, the mid-stock switching is truer to Pokemon's home series mechanics. Smash celebrates every single franchise in it by making every character feel as close to their home series as possible while still having fun movesets for a fighting game. Red/Leaf, Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard together represent the franchise's very core, namely the relationship between Pokemon and their Trainers (seen in their victory poses, especially the three unique "affection" ones where the trainer hugs and pets their Pokemon), as well as representing the switching mechanics in Pokemon and how each member of your team fulfills a different role. Fighting alone, Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard only really represent their movesets. That's potentially great for Competitive play, but it loses part of the spirit of the franchise, especially when there's six other solo Pokemon already on the roster.

Sure, they represent the three Starter Pokemon of the Kanto region, but they do that regardless of whether they're on their own or with their Trainer. Ultimately, there's nothing the three Pokemon can do on their own that they can't do better as a team.

Also I absolutely love their victory animations with the Trainer and that alone is honestly enough for me to prefer them together.

 

[Boartobewild]

This kind of thing was in Project M, and to be honest, while it was fun, it was also kind of annoying. Switching characters each stock means that if you make a mistake early on and wind up with the wrong character, you've basically already lost at least two stocks. Plus, switching each KO means you can only use that one character for that one stock. Which means if you want to switch, you have to SD and waste a stock just to get who you want. Pokemon Trainer automatically switches Pokemon each stock anyway and as they are now, you can switch in the middle of a stock for whoever fits the current situation, like if you need to recover or have broken the foe's shield and want Charizard's KO moves over Squirtle's combos right there. And seriously, tell me with complete sincerity that Charizard didn't have trouble with comboing in Smash 4 and couldn't have used Squirtle's help in that department.

Even if you only use one Pokemon, while you don't have a down special, that's exactly one less move than the rest of the roster. Losing ONE move doesn't matter a huge amount. And as others have said, the mid-stock switching is truer to Pokemon's home series mechanics. Smash celebrates every single franchise in it by making every character feel as close to their home series as possible while still having fun movesets for a fighting game. Red/Leaf, Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard together represent the franchise's very core, namely the relationship between Pokemon and their Trainers (seen in their victory poses, especially the three unique "affection" ones where the trainer hugs and pets their Pokemon), as well as representing the switching mechanics in Pokemon and how each member of your team fulfills a different role. Fighting alone, Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard only really represent their movesets. That's potentially great for Competitive play, but it loses part of the spirit of the franchise, especially when there's six other solo Pokemon already on the roster.

Sure, they represent the three Starter Pokemon of the Kanto region, but they do that regardless of whether they're on their own or with their Trainer. Ultimately, there's nothing the three Pokemon can do on their own that they can't do better as a team.

Also I absolutely love their victory animations with the Trainer and that alone is honestly enough for me to prefer them together.

I completely agree, the main problem with the Op opinion though, is what exactly the benefit would be? If it's about each one having his own D-b, I would have liked to hear some examples/ideas, bc everything I could think up for these mon to use, is already incorporated in their normals, specifically their awsome Smash attacks. Sure you could try to think up something else and include some random out there attack, from their move pool in the games, or in charizard's case just take a random move he can't utilize nor makes sense. (Talkin about rock smash ofc, you won't be missed)

Anyway I don't understand what's so bad about granting Pokemon Trainer the privilege of switching (esp. considering the "jail out for free card" function and potential almost identical to having all 3 Mii char style of play at your beck and call, as the other two examples, Sheik+Zelda and Zero suit-& Samus didn't make that much sense gameplay wise. Sheik might as well be Impa, as Sheik herself never displayed a lot of Sheikah traits/feats herself (I wonder why?) and the contrast of Samus being more vulnerable/viable with her Suit on, compared with the games, where it was the opposite.

Anyway, I know I'll be playing the trio mostly for Squirtle, which hasn't got to do jack with his char-attributes/tier placement, but the fact that he's a very fun-looking water user, an archetype which in combination with Ice-users, we could use/need way more of.
(Rundas from Metroid prm, Corruption e.g.) Ivysaur looks as out there, but interestingly different, as ever. Charizard get's completly outshined/paced by Ridley though. In the aforementionned order first is the fast, small, combo focussed char ( which tend to be the best by Smash's nature), then there's the long ranged spacing char (who can be very frustrating and annoying to deal with) and finally the big, slower heavy hitter/finisher. (Who mostly end up in lower tiers).

 

[Crazy Hand 2001]

I completely agree, the main problem with the Op opinion though, is what exactly the benefit would be? If it's about each one having his own D-b, I would have liked to hear some examples/ideas, bc everything I could think up for these mon to use, is already incorporated in their normals, specifically their awsome Smash attacks. Sure you could try to think up something else and include some random out there attack, from their move pool in the games, or in charizard's case just take a random move he can't utilize nor makes sense. (Talkin about rock smash ofc, you won't be missed)

Anyway I don't understand what's so bad about granting Pokemon Trainer the privilege of switching (esp. considering the "jail out for free card" function and potential almost identical to having all 3 Mii char style of play at your beck and call, as the other two examples, Sheik+Zelda and Zero suit-& Samus didn't make that much sense gameplay wise. Sheik might as well be Impa, as Sheik herself never displayed a lot of Sheikah traits/feats herself (I wonder why?) and the contrast of Samus being more vulnerable/viable with her Suit on, compared with the games, where it was the opposite.

Anyway, I know I'll be playing the trio mostly for Squirtle, which hasn't got to do jack with his char-attributes/tier placement, but the fact that he's a very fun-looking water user, an archetype which in combination with Ice-users, we could use/need way more of.
(Rundas from Metroid prm, Corruption e.g.) Ivysaur looks as out there, but interestingly different, as ever. Charizard get's completly outshined/paced by Ridley though. In the aforementionned order first is the fast, small, combo focussed char ( which tend to be the best by Smash's nature), then there's the long ranged spacing char (who can be very frustrating and annoying to deal with) and finally the big, slower heavy hitter/finisher. (Who mostly end up in lower tiers).

I mentioned a button to switch characters mid stock. Did you not read my post?

 

[Boartobewild]

Well not all of them fully, admittedly but still, this sounds still pretty akward and out there, so you want either X,Y or Up on the control stick as a Switching mechanic but still grant them all unique Down bs? Do you honestly believe everyone would be on board/happy with such a mechanic and privilege limited to a few chars?!?! That sounds like a serious case of wanting to eat the cake but keeping it too ;/ (unless you want to tell me that this was just meant as a game mode or quirk in itself were you could choose three chars before the match and switch them at your leisure, like you described whenever you want, bc yeah than I would be down for that)

And AGAIN, yeah the purpose of such would be to grant them all their own unique Down-Bs, but while you've been advocating your position and opinion very faithfully, despite all the opposing viewpoints and stances, I have yet to hear some concrete examples of what those titular D-bs should be/look like and function for each of those 3 from YOU.

BC what's even the point of wanting different/unique 3 D-bs, if you can't even think up some yourself?!

 

[Crazy Hand 2001]

My intentions were for the trainer's Pokémon to be their own seperate characters, and for this switching mechanic to be a separate game mode, maybe even implemented into single player modes.

Charizard keeps Rock Smash while Squritle and Ivysaur get their Project M down specials. Or we give all 3 their Project M specials.