Hellos! I decided to do some late night labbing with Nair since I was curious just how good Nair 1 is and just how bad Dragdown Nair is. There's a lot of uncertainty behind this move outside of "it has a confirm into kick/dragdown killed my family and burned my crops". First off...
Nair Basics and Interactions
Obscure Combos and Frame Advantage/Disadvantage Numbers
Examples of a clean grounded Nair combo (former 2 gifs) and an example of how Nair acts at high %s (latter 2 gifs):
Using Imgur because apparently my 2MB gif is too large for the server here which is really dumb but ok
It's possible that this may work even better vs small characters since they're less likely to be caught in the aerial hitboxes.
So a "Nair 1" (as a lot of Zeldas call it) has a ton of combo potential at practically any %. The dragdown Nair is pretty awful except at high %s where it stops acting like a dragdown sometimes.
But just how good is Grounded Nair, and how awful is Dragdown Nair? I ran some tests vs Pit in training mode and used a second controller to measure the frame advantage and disadvantage.
Btw please read the notes inside! Anyway, the Dragdown Nair seems to have this crazy variance that I can't quite figure out. One moment the disadvantage isn't awful, the next it's horrible. I eventually gave up as you can see. Dragdown is basically RNG until the opponent is damaged enough for the aerial hitboxes to miss, but even then it isn't 100% guaranteed. Even though it's RNG, the odds are still never in your favor since Zelda is at best at a -2 on a perfect landing (which is unlikely to happen every time you use it, so realistically you can expect about a -5 or worse).
In short, you want to aim for Nair 1 always, but other hits can work the same way at high %s, it's just risky.
Closing Questions:
1. How does rage affect this?
To be honest, I'm not 100% sure. From anecdotal experience it probably just increases the knockback, meaning lower %s will act like higher %s. The frame advantage is already so huge that Zelda should still be able to follow up with something. She can confirm a kick at 150! Or even Uair, one of her slowest moves! I can see rage really making these dangerous around the 50-70% mark.
2. What's the difference between "Grounded Nair" and "Nair 1"?
They're practically the same thing really. They both refer to hitting the opponent with a single hit of Nair that pops them up for a combo. However, this only happens to grounded opponents, thus the name "Grounded Nair". Then again, Nair 1 (the first hit on frame 6) is the most common way of getting this by far, so it's still an accurate term as well.
3. Why are the numbers on Dragdown Nair so weird?
Idk, I tested for along time and got fed up with it. This move is strange. Regardless, it sucks and we should practice the timing for Nair 1 only.
4. Is this useful in a real match?
Yes! Zelda has been using Nair as a confirm tool since Smash 4. Ultimate's version is a little harder to execute but more rewarding, imo. Here's a trick: an opponent will be popped up from any grounded hit of Nair. So if they shield Nair but drop too early, they can be clipped and popped off the ground by one hit of it. You can use this to trick opponents by varying the timing of your landing, just like Byleth does. Bonus points if you do a crossup and land the back hit, since it confirms easier into Kicks and Usmash. Zelda is a relatively unknown character by most players outside of her specials, so this can catch many off-guard. Use it in your neutral!
5. Is the data on the notepad accurate for everyone?
No, it's not. I used Pit since he's a humanoid middleweight. Due to his weight, these numbers can be looked at as an average. For a lighter character, the numbers will be better. For the heavier ones, you'll need to pile more damage on to get the same results. However they also have larger hurtboxes, so the high % "dragdown" may work worse. On the flipside, once you do get a confirm, landing the KO move is easier.
I'm not sure how many Zeldas come around here anymore looking for serious discussion, but I wanted to post this here anyway. Feel free to share it!
Nair Basics and Interactions
- It's a multihit move with 4 weak hits and 1 launcher hit.
- There are hitboxes for grounded opponents and hitboxes for aerial opponents. This is important to know, because the grounded hits are the ones you want for combos and on-hit safety.
- Dragdown Nair is always unsafe on hit. There is no landing hitbox. It can be a setup tool but if the other person isn't asleep/knows the MU it isn't gonna work.
- The front hits do more damage, and thus, launch very slightly farther and have slightly more frame advantage.
- The final hitbox is not accurate to her arms at all lol.
- The first hit hits a grounded opponent, giving Zelda a large frame advantage. The opponent is popped up off the ground a bit depending on damage. They may also enter a tumble state.
- The second hit of Nair connects on the now airborne opponent. The previous hitstun is overridden, and Zelda now lands.
- The aerial hitboxes have very little hitstun on them. The opponent can now act before Zelda can, and they don't get pushed away. Many Nairs and UpBs can hit Zelda while she is still in landing lag. Zelda loses all combo potential she had previously.
- You probably died by now.
- The grounded hit lands. Zelda gains a large frame advantage. The opponent goes into tumble, but the move is so bad at connecting that they fly past the aerial hitboxes, and retain the long hitstun from the grounded hit.
- Zelda retains her advantage frames and deletes them with a kill move of her choice.
Obscure Combos and Frame Advantage/Disadvantage Numbers
Examples of a clean grounded Nair combo (former 2 gifs) and an example of how Nair acts at high %s (latter 2 gifs):
Using Imgur because apparently my 2MB gif is too large for the server here which is really dumb but ok
It's possible that this may work even better vs small characters since they're less likely to be caught in the aerial hitboxes.
So a "Nair 1" (as a lot of Zeldas call it) has a ton of combo potential at practically any %. The dragdown Nair is pretty awful except at high %s where it stops acting like a dragdown sometimes.
But just how good is Grounded Nair, and how awful is Dragdown Nair? I ran some tests vs Pit in training mode and used a second controller to measure the frame advantage and disadvantage.
In short, you want to aim for Nair 1 always, but other hits can work the same way at high %s, it's just risky.
Closing Questions:
1. How does rage affect this?
To be honest, I'm not 100% sure. From anecdotal experience it probably just increases the knockback, meaning lower %s will act like higher %s. The frame advantage is already so huge that Zelda should still be able to follow up with something. She can confirm a kick at 150! Or even Uair, one of her slowest moves! I can see rage really making these dangerous around the 50-70% mark.
2. What's the difference between "Grounded Nair" and "Nair 1"?
They're practically the same thing really. They both refer to hitting the opponent with a single hit of Nair that pops them up for a combo. However, this only happens to grounded opponents, thus the name "Grounded Nair". Then again, Nair 1 (the first hit on frame 6) is the most common way of getting this by far, so it's still an accurate term as well.
3. Why are the numbers on Dragdown Nair so weird?
Idk, I tested for along time and got fed up with it. This move is strange. Regardless, it sucks and we should practice the timing for Nair 1 only.
4. Is this useful in a real match?
Yes! Zelda has been using Nair as a confirm tool since Smash 4. Ultimate's version is a little harder to execute but more rewarding, imo. Here's a trick: an opponent will be popped up from any grounded hit of Nair. So if they shield Nair but drop too early, they can be clipped and popped off the ground by one hit of it. You can use this to trick opponents by varying the timing of your landing, just like Byleth does. Bonus points if you do a crossup and land the back hit, since it confirms easier into Kicks and Usmash. Zelda is a relatively unknown character by most players outside of her specials, so this can catch many off-guard. Use it in your neutral!
5. Is the data on the notepad accurate for everyone?
No, it's not. I used Pit since he's a humanoid middleweight. Due to his weight, these numbers can be looked at as an average. For a lighter character, the numbers will be better. For the heavier ones, you'll need to pile more damage on to get the same results. However they also have larger hurtboxes, so the high % "dragdown" may work worse. On the flipside, once you do get a confirm, landing the KO move is easier.
I'm not sure how many Zeldas come around here anymore looking for serious discussion, but I wanted to post this here anyway. Feel free to share it!