In Depth Pit Frame Data - 45~% - Working on it, expect to see stuff up ASAP

[SuSa]

Before reading, you MUST read this.

I can see whats happening.
And they don't have a clue.
They'll fall in love, and here's the bottom line
Our trio's down to two (Oh)

The sweet caress of twilight.
There's magic everywhere.
And with all this romantic atmosphere
Disasters in the air!

Pit Frame Data​

Hey guys, I want to make 1 clear distinction. The knockback in the two sections, 1st and 4th, are no equal. This is because one is dealing with base knockback and the other is dealing with initial knockback. Initial knockback is the amount of launcher speed a move has on Mario at 0%, which is in my knockback guide. However, this is only useful for relationships on the character in questions because using only initial knockback, you cannot convert the knockback to another character. However, if you use base, which is very directly related to the initial (ask me if you want more complicated information), you can find the knockback for the entire roster.

Key Terms

Hits On
This is the first frame the attack starts to hit on.

Duration
This is the total number of frames the attack lasts until the first IASA frame.

Hitlag
This is the number of frames of freezeframe animation when an attack connects.

BlockHitStun
This is the number of frames of freezeframe on the animation of a shield when an attack hits it. The shielder does not slide during this time.

Blockstun
This is the number of frames after shield hitlag that the shielder cannot unshield in.

Base Damage
How much the attack does at 0% in a Versus Battle (%'s in parenthesis is when move is fully charged)

Knockback Angle
The angle which the opponent is sent before directional influence.

Other Knockback Stuff
Base is the speed at which the opponent is sent in a versus Battle. Growth is how this increases per % of damage.

Multi-Hit moves such as Jab "start counting" when the animation for the next part begins. (EG: Jab 2 starts after Jab 1, but does not include Jab 1 frames. Only the frames starting from the animation of Jab 2). This does not apply to moves such as Dair or Nair

EG:
Jab 1 hits on frame 6, but Jab 2 hits on frame 4. This means Jab 2 really hits on frame 10.

Multi-Hit moves such as Forward Smash are counted seperately from the beginning. (Hit 1 hits on 6-8, but when Hit 1 missed, hit 2 hits on 18-20)

Jab

Input: A
Hits on Frame: 5-6
Duration: 19
Hitlag: 6
Blockstun:
Blockhitlag: 6
Base Damage:
Knockback:

Angle (degrees above forward):
Base:
Growth Rate/ variance:

2nd Jab

Input: A-->A
Hits on Frame: 21-
Duration: 36
Hitlag: 5
Blockstun:
Blockhitlag:
Base Damage:
Knockback:

Angle (degrees above forward):
Base:
Growth Rate/ variance:

3rd Jab

Input: A-->A-->A
Hits on Frame:
Duration:
Hitlag:
Blockstun:
Blockhitlag:
Base Damage:
Knockback:

Angle (degrees above forward):
Base:
Growth Rate/ variance:

Rabid Jab

Input: A->A->A->A->A->ETC.
Hits on Frame:
Duration:
Hitlag:
Blockstun:
Blockhitlag:
Base Damage:
Knockback:

Angle (degrees above forward):
Base:
Growth Rate/ variance:

Forward Tilt

Input: Forward or Back --> A
Hits on Frame: 14-16
Duration: 39
Hitlag: 8
Blockstun: 0
Blockhitlag: 8
Base Damage: 12%
Knockback:

Angle (degrees above forward):
Base: 955.92
Growth Rate/ variance: 31.59

Up Tilt

Input: Up --> A
Hits on Frame:
First Hit: 2-8
Second Hit:
Third Hit:
Duration:
Hitlag:
First Hit: 8
Second Hit:
Third Hit:
Blockstun:
First Hit:
Second Hit:
Third Hit:
Blockhitlag:
First Hit: 8
Second Hit:
Third Hit:
Base Damage:
First Hit:
Second Hit:
Third Hit: 7%
Knockback:

Angle (degrees above forward):
Base:
Growth Rate/ variance:

Down Tilt

Input: Down --> A
Hits on Frame: 6-8
Duration: 29
Hitlag: 8
Blockstun: 2
Blockhitlag: 8
Base Damage: 11%
Knockback:

Angle (degrees above forward):
Base: 2875.27
Growth Rate/ variance: 15.43

Forward Smash

Input: Forward/Back + A
Hits on Frame:
First Swing: 6-8
Second Swing: 18-20
Duration: 47
Hitlag:
First Swing: 7
Second Swing: 9
Blockstun:
First Swing:
Second Swing:
Blockhitlag:
First Swing:
Second Swing:
Base Damage:
First Swing: 7%
Second Swing: 12%
Knockback:

Angle (degrees above forward):
Base: 1619.68
Growth Rate/ variance: 35.86

Up Smash

Input: Up+A
Hits on Frame:
First Swing: 6-
Second Swing:
Third Swing:
Duration: 46
Hitlag:
First Swing:
Second Swing:
Third Swing:
Blockstun:
First Swing:
Second Swing:
Third Swing:
Blockhitlag:
First Swing:
Second Swing:
Third Swing:
Base Damage:
First Swing:
Second Swing:
Third Swing: 8%
Knockback:

Angle (degrees above forward):
Base:
Growth Rate/ variance:

Down Smash

Input: Down+A
Hits on Frame:
First Swing: 6
Second Swing: 18-20
Duration: 40
Hitlag:
First Swing: 10
Second Swing: 8
Blockstun:
First Swing:
Second Swing:
Blockhitlag:
First Swing:
Second Swing:
Base Damage:
First Swing: 13%
Second Swing: 9%
Knockback:
First Swing:
Angle (degrees above forward):
Base: 1508.96
Growth Rate/ variance: 32.08

Second Swing:
Angle (degrees above forward):
Base: 1175.77
Growth Rate/ variance: 23.47

Neutral Air

Input: A while airborne
Hits on Frame: 4-
Duration: 51
Landing Lag:
Hitlag:
Blockstun:
Blockhitlag:
Base Damage:
Knockback:

Angle (degrees above forward):
Base:
Growth Rate/ variance:

Forward Air

Input: Forward+A while airborne
Hits on Frame: 12-15
Duration: 38
Landing Lag:
Hitlag: 10
Blockstun:
Blockhitlag:
Base Damage: 14%
Knockback:

Angle (degrees above forward):
Base: 855.18
Growth Rate/ variance: 28.63

Back Air

Input: Back+A while airborne
Hits on Frame: 9-25
Duration: 39
Landing Lag:
Hitlag:
Blockstun:
Blockhitlag:
Base Damage: 15%
Knockback:

Angle (degrees above forward):
Base: 2030.95
Growth Rate/ variance: 36.47

Up Air

Input: Up+A while airborne
Hits on Frame: 9
Duration: 45
Landing Lag:
Hitlag: 4
Blockstun:
Blockhitlag:
Base Damage:
Knockback:

Angle (degrees above forward):
Base:
Growth Rate/ variance:

Down Air

Input: Down+A while airborne
Hits on Frame: 10-12
Duration: 36
Landing Lag:
Hitlag: 9
Blockstun:
Blockhitlag:
Base Damage: 12%
Knockback:

Angle (degrees above forward):
Base: 2089.8
Growth Rate/ variance: 26.6

Dash Attack

Input: A or C-stick left/right/down while dashing
Hits on Frame:
Duration:
Hitlag:
Blockstun:
Blockhitlag:
Base Damage:
Knockback:

Angle (degrees above forward):
Base:
Growth Rate/ variance:

Neutral B

Move Name: Paletuna's Bow
Input: B
Hits on Frame: 20 to "Infinity" theoretically....
Duration: 43 (You can still control the arrow beyond this)
Hitlag: 0
Blockstun:
Blockhitlag:
Base Damage: 5%
Knockback:

Angle (degrees above forward):
Base: 733.35
Growth Rate/ variance: 10.73

Forward B

Move Name: Angel Ring
Input: Forward/Back+B
Hits on Frame:
Duration: 63
Hitlag: 0
Blockstun: #F
Blockhitlag: 0
Base Damage:
Knockback:

Angle (degrees above forward):
Base:
Growth Rate/ variance:

Up B

Move Name: Wings of Icarus
Input: Up+B
Hits on Frame: Windbox:
Invincibility: 1-4
Duration: 29
Hitlag: N/A
Blockstun: N/A
Blockhitlag: N/A
Base Damage: N/A
Knockback:

Angle (degrees above forward): N/A
Base: N/A
Growth Rate/ variance: N/A

Down B

Move Name: Mirror Shield
Input: Down+B
Reflects on Frame: 6-17
Super Armour: 4-5 (Grounded Only)
Duration: 41
Hitlag: N/A
Blockstun:N/A
Blockhitlag: N/A
Base Damage: N/A
Knockback:

Angle (degrees above forward): N/A
Base: N/A
Growth Rate/ variance: N/A

Forward Throw
Move Name:
Input: Forward during Grab
Duration: Varies by character
Base Damage:
Knockback:

Angle (degrees above forward):
Base:
Growth Rate/ variance:

Back Throw
Move Name:
Input: Back during Grab
Duration: Varies by character
Base Damage:
Knockback:

Angle (degrees above forward):
Base:
Growth Rate/ variance:

Up Throw
Move Name:
Input: Up during Grab
Duration: Varies by character
Base Damage:
Knockback:

Angle (degrees above forward):
Base:
Growth Rate/ variance:

Down Throw
Move Name:
Input: Down during Grab
Duration:
Base Damage:
Knockback:

Angle (degrees above forward): N/A
Base: 0
Growth Rate/ variance: 0

Pummel
Input: A during Grab
Duration: #F
Base Damage
Knockback:

Angle (degrees above forward): N/A
Base: 0
Growth Rate/ variance: 0

Glide Attack

Input: Attack while Gliding
Hits on Frame: 6-9
Duration: 34
Hitlag:
Blockstun:
Blockhitlag:
Base Damage: 12%
Knockback:

Angle (degrees above forward):
Base: 2572.68
Growth Rate/ variance: 26.61

Getups (Attacks+Rolls) from Ground

Getups (Attacks+Roll+Jump) from Ledge

Attack

Input: Attack while on Ledge
Hits on Frame:
Duration:
Invincible:

Roll

Input: Shield while on Ledge
Duration:
Invincible:

Jump

Input: Jump while on Ledge
Duration:
Invincible:


Dodges (Air, Roll, Side)

Air Dodge

Input: Shield while Airborne
Duration:
Invincible:

Roll Dodge Forward

Input: Forward while Shielding
Duration:
Invincible:

Roll Dodge Backward

Input: Back while Shielding
Duration:
Invincible:


Side Step

Input: Down while Shielding
Duration: 25
Invincible: 2-21

Taunts

 

[kown]

thank you so much for this. err i have a general idea of the frame data but i have no idea how to prove it. Theres already frame data somewhere in this forum but it is unfinished. SO please finish this and maybe us pits can advance

 

[SuSa]

Taking a small break from counting frames... going to get pictures of all the moves now.

Seriously, counting frames and doing math gets boring, really...really..really fast. :/

Pictures will be up ASAP. Need to reboot Wii to make pausing easier. After I get pictures of all the moves I'll continue on the frame data... I have a good 50%~ of it done (at least for the super important stuff ).

EDIT:
Forgot the throw pictures and a few others, and was to lazy to get even others. So there are like 10 pictures missing that I will collect after more frame data.

working on data again

 

[droughboi]

So uhm question

Not trying to be negitve or anything, but what does knowing the frame data help you do better? I see them on every board but I never understood the general point of it all.

yuupiiee, just moved, and I have no internet... I stole my moms mobile wireless card for the night. see you guys in about 2 weeks

 

[SuSa]

So uhm question

Not trying to be negitve or anything, but what does knowing the frame data help you do better? I see them on every board but I never understood the general point of it all.

yuupiiee, just moved, and I have no internet... I stole my moms mobile wireless card for the night. see you guys in about 2 weeks

1) You know exactly how punishable a move is. And by comparing it to other moves, you know what moves your opponent can use to punish you.

2) You know what moves are quick enough to punish your opponent from their moves (given you know their frame data)

3) You know your quickest aerial down to the frame (for momentum canceling) (which so happens to be dair, with fair being a really close second and bair being 1 frame slower then fair)

It can be argued you can learn 1 and 2 from experience, but sometimes 1-2 frames is hard to pick up on without data.

There's more stuff, but that's the most important IMO.

 

[kown]

wow...our previous thread was off on like everything.

I have a request to make.
Can you make sure that there is no difference in frame data when performing a move during upb?

EDIT: pit doesnt have invinicibilty during upb....its more like uhh a projectile cancel property and if your hit from 1-4 than u can upb again. You still take damage from other moves tho.

EDIT: what makes dair the best momentum canceller? bair comes out faster.

 

[SuSa]

I tested it against Jigglypuff's Jab... it won't hit him during frames 1-4

COMING OUT FASTER DOESNT MATTER you want it to END FASTER... god.. you guys don't know that either? :/

 

[edwen]

I think you got rapid jab and 3rd jab pictures mixed up.

 

[SuSa]

Thanks for the correction.

I think I'm going to do global data (shield raise/drop, rolls, etc.) dash attack, and then I'm done. :/

I'm just not motivated to do Pit's... lol.. I'm sure you can thank me for the good 70-80% I DID do. =p

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

haha SuSa is so cool

Anywhoo, I noticed a typo. For his glide attack, it reads, "A or C-stick left/right/down while dashing"

I'm guessing it should be gliding.

Actually, now that I look at it again, I see that they both have the same phrase for input. Are you sure that you didn't mistakingly put dash attack's frame data as glide attack's frame data?

 

[SuSa]

I copy pasted the dash attack stuff and edited the info, forgot to edit that part. Thanks for pointing it out.

 

[kown]

I tested it against Jigglypuff's Jab... it won't hit him during frames 1-4

COMING OUT FASTER DOESNT MATTER you want it to END FASTER... god.. you guys don't know that either? :/

yea woops. im the only one who didnt know that...or wasnt thinking. heh.

pit doesnt have invincibilty. it just cancels moves out. Like a weird property. ugh this really doesnt matter tho.

hurry up and finish this!! i have a tourney today. hobo17. haha

nice thread and thanks for making it!!

 

[SuSa]

I only have dash attack and a few minor things left... right now I'm taking a break to eat at 4am.

I seriously have no motivation to do this.... :/ I'd much rathers do Sheik's but first I need to check if their frame data is good enough.... and if it is I'd do Ganon...

I don't play Pit. :x Except for the lulz and in friendlies....

 

[Nikenick]

Thanks for this, you're amazing!
Ok, so dair is Pit's fastest aerial so Pit users should use that one for DI? I've always used fair so this might help me to survive a bit longer =D

 

[SuSa]

It's only 2 frames, but yes. Dair is the best according to my data.

I'm going to go to bed, it's ****ing 4am.... I'll finish this in the morning hopefully....

 

[Admiral Pit]

We angels really appreciate your hard work.
Though these may not help much, but Get-up Attacks, Rolls, and jumps are different when Pit is at least at 100%.
And, the Get up attack from tripping, not really useful, but idk.

I believe the U-tilt's first hit is really at 2 frames, but I know it's Pit's fastest damaging attack.

 

[Recoil]

Awesome job SuSa, this can only help out Pit to be better.

and I realized that your like all over the character boards :o

 

[goodkid]

I thought we already had frame data in the Pit guide <_<

 

[Admiral Pit]

It is important to keep our info updated, goodkid, so just in case new things are discovered, which is the same reason why the matchup discussions are to be updated.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I wonder how many of these frame data threads SuSa will make 0.o

 

[SuSa]

@Bowser
Frame data is something that only needs to be done once really... but you guys have never had completed data, or at least not even this complete. <_<

People are still on my TV (an amazing 14 hours later) so I haven't been able to finish up. I will get the trajectories, something that is very easy to do. (999% + Training mode + BF, move person to ledge of platform and hit them... lol)

@Velox
Snake
Pit
Ganon
- more to come

 

[Admiral Pit]

Well, in the empty Pit boards, not many things (including the matchup thread) was ever complete. If only they would contribute more for once..... but alas, what can u do?
I think the WOI startup time is 1 frame, but only idk anything else at this time.

 

[Phaigne]

I approve of this thread.

 

[Nikenick]

I was wondering if someone could find out what the frama data of a wingdash is, so we can see if it's really helpfull or not. It would be helpfull if we knew how many frames the opponent gets 'stunned' by the wind effect and how many frames you got to punish him for that.

 

[Phaigne]

Hey SuSa, you plan on working on this anymore? Because I would be willing to collaborate somewhat, since I just got the codes to do it. I just know we do not have the best frame data in the world.

 

[Vex Kasrani]

Really needs to be updated

 

[Katana_koden]

I agree, I definitely would like to help because I have the time. Just don't know where to start.

 

[Phaigne]

I agree, I definitely would like to help because I have the time. Just don't know where to start.

Do you have Homebrew Channel?

 

[Katana_koden]

yes. I'd just need the program, and what to look for.

 

[Phaigne]

yes. I'd just need the program, and what to look for.

HOld on, I can help you out with that. I'll PM you sometime with the info, but I warn you, it is boring work. I had a lot of it done, but I reformatted my hard-drive and lost it all.

 

['Kicks']

someone needs to finish this please.

I hate sounding like a *****y little kid but i do not know how to analyze all the frame data and would absolutely love it if someone could just finish this for me

 

[FrznSaber]

Since SuSa left SWF, we should probably find someone else to complete the data.

 

['Kicks']

is there any one else in the pit boards that knows how to do it?

 

[Katana_koden]

Aha! I found a way, but I need to do some tests.
Also I will maybe need a list of moves to do data on.
Once I get started, I will ask for pics.

For base knock back stuff, I don't understand.

 

[Katana_koden]

Okay for the unfinished, frame data for duration only. Till I find some coding for it.
Duration-

A<A<A= 60
A<A<A+ = 71
Dash attack= 41
UP tilt= 34

0-99% ledge
attack= 55
roll= 49
stand= 34
jump= 16 frames till you can WOI from the ledge

100-999% ledge
attack= 69
roll= 79
stand= 59
jump= 19 from before WOI

Misc
5 frames before you are in the air

WIngdash
odd you can't start a WOI till frame 7 (frame 1-5 will do a grounded WOI)
then 17 frames before you can cancel it
3 frames of canceling
Thats the fastest you can do it. So 27 frames total

WOI grounded- 29 frames before canceling
WOI Air- is of course 17

Charging arrow changing direction
7 frames from side to up or visa versa
7 frames from left to right or visa versa

Getups
While face on ground
Roll forward= 35
Roll back= 35
Stand= 29
Attack= 49

While on back
Roll forward= 35
Roll back= 35
Stand= 29
Attack= 49

I need more suggestions.
I need to know what data you are really looking for also.