Improving My Marth (Average Level Player)

[Beninator]

This certainly isn't the best I've been at, but here is a match between my sister and I: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YUX4UIFGkU&feature=share&list=PL2A0F4EB186747574

I am aware of the fact that I screw up with my UpB around the 4:30 mark, but I was wondering if there was anyone who'd be willing to offer me tips on how to improve my game. My sister and I compete in tournaments in our library and school, and have gone to some hosted by friends (this match was in a tournament hosted by us.)

 

[Internalyzed]

Your edgeguarding could use improvement. For example, at 0:45, instead of going for the dair, a fair or bair would've sufficed. And if you'd just regrabbed the edge, Fox probably wouldn't have made it back. At 1:02, instead of using fthrow, dthrow could've set up an edgeguard. Also, there were many times when you stood on the stage and used Counter against Fire Fox., That doesn't work, because unlike Melee, Fox will autosweetspot the ledge, meaning that he'll grab it immediately instead of popping up to activate your Counter. You're also using Countering way too often.

If you don't connect with the first hit of Dancing Blade, try not to continue the rest of the move because that'll just get you punished.

Dsmash has decent startup (7 frames afaik), but it's really unsafe on block, and spamming it only conditions your opponent to expect it. Instead, try a grab, dtilt, Dolphin Slash or Dancing Blade when punishing at close range.

Your use of upsmash as an approach is questionable at best, but it's actually pretty good as a punish for Fox Illusion, if you can time it properly.

Against space animals (Fox/Falco/Wolf), fthrow-->fthrow-->dair is a true combo close to the edge, as is fthrow x3-->dthrow x2-->fsmash.

There were a lot of times that you were just dash-dancing in the middle of the stage without really doing anything. Try to limit that, mainly because of tripping but also because dashing doesn't stop Fox's lasers. That said, your skill in dash-dancing can be applied to something like this.

One more thing: unless you've just KO'd your opponent, there's little reason to be taunting in the middle of a match. It leaves you open to punishment with little to show for it.

 

[Beninator]

The countering a Fire Fox thing comes from playing Melee a lot recently, so I shall work to avoid it in Brawl.

I could never time the Fthrowx3 Dthrowx2 combo thing, I always miss when I grab for the Dthrow (even when my opponent starts at 0%.)

Taunting is a really bad habit I have

Overall, how would you say my skills and potential with Marth are? I've been playing him for about two years now.

 

[1PokeMastr]

I'll watch and post some critique when I get home in ~15 minutes.

My apologies for the delay.
ANYWAY.

First off.. Get rid of your rolling/ spot dodge habit, it looks like someone put you in a sideways barrel and kicked it down a hill.
Next.. you gave up a punish when you dodged the Phantasm. You could have ran after Fox -> Dancing Blade/ Dash attack, but you Fsmashed.. where he wasn't.

Stop doing that dash thing. It makes Marth move slower, even though it looks cool. You're better off walking.

At :44 seconds. You gave up an edge guard attempt on Fox, they wouldn't have made it back if you stayed on the ledge.

You shouldn't really be using Fsmash until they're around kill damages. Read this thread to understand more of Marth's moveset, at an in depth level -> http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=315099

And read this one for moveset basics because you're new. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=263946
They're both REALLY helpful, so don't skip out on either of them.


That's all for now. I'm really tired, and watching this is giving me a headache.

 

[ScareMl]

do you use a wiimote+nunchuk?

 

[Beninator]

I'll watch and post some critique when I get home in ~15 minutes.

My apologies for the delay.
ANYWAY.

First off.. Get rid of your rolling/ spot dodge habit, it looks like someone put you in a sideways barrel and kicked it down a hill.
Next.. you gave up a punish when you dodged the Phantasm. You could have ran after Fox -> Dancing Blade/ Dash attack, but you Fsmashed.. where he wasn't.

Stop doing that dash thing. It makes Marth move slower, even though it looks cool. You're better off walking.

At :44 seconds. You gave up an edge guard attempt on Fox, they wouldn't have made it back if you stayed on the ledge.

You shouldn't really be using Fsmash until they're around kill damages. Read this thread to understand more of Marth's moveset, at an in depth level -> http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=315099

And read this one for moveset basics because you're new. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=263946
They're both REALLY helpful, so don't skip out on either of them.


That's all for now. I'm really tired, and watching this is giving me a headache.

Stop the Foxtrotting? I thought that made Marth move faster (http://www.ssbwiki.com/Foxtrot), or is that only in Melee?

do you use a wiimote+nunchuk?

I use the Classic Controller (original, I hate the Pro.)

 

[C.J.]

It does make Marth move faster, but speed isn't that important. You have the fastest walk in the game, you can't shield until frame 17 after an ID, you have the likelihood of tripping, etc.

 

[Pr0phetic]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned a key thing: your spacing. Understandably since your new, this is something that'll come with time an practice. Learning and improving there will ultimately make you a lot safer and get full damage on your aerials and tilts. Look here: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=229253

Hope all the advice from your thread helps!

 

[Beninator]

Out of curiosity, how does this video pair up to my other one.

It's a few weeks older, but I feel I played better.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlC1ZCkIYg4

 

[Pr0phetic]

Out of curiosity, how does this video pair up to my other one.

It's a few weeks older, but I feel I played better.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlC1ZCkIYg4

This game was... not very good.

It seems as you don't have the full grasp of Marth as a character. For starters, your movement and control of Marth makes you very vulnerable, such as when you dash dance, roll often (which Marth is terrible at), or don't correctly know how to punish your opponents mistakes (which that Ike made A LOT of). Secondly, your spacing needs a lot of work. Against better opponents your going to be seeing a lot more dash --> shield, and with how your spacing your attacks you will be getting hit or grabbed often and killed for laggy or unsafe approaches. Finally, stop jumping into the ****! You take extreme amounts of unnecessary damage by running, jumping, or ADing into the opponent... Hope this helps!

If you want a more detailed, timestamped critique lmk.

 

[Internalyzed]

Stop spamming up smash. If you want to spam up smash, then play Fox. Seriously.

Secondly, don't spam Counter. It seems like that you're using Counter in anticipation of your sister attacking you, and her inability to punish made the move seem safer than it actually is. Real players will catch on that you're using Counter virtually every time that you're landing, and will punish accordingly.

Lastly, please tell your sister that back throw-->Quick Draw is a combo only in Brawl Minus.

 

[Pr0phetic]

OK watching your video again.

0:20 - You missed a key opportunity to punish your sister here. As you dash towards her and setup a wall Fair, she rolled in. You've could've capitalized with a plethora of moves honestly, but, you should learn when to use Dancing Blade (all red variation). This racks up damage, gives you the advantage, and restores any stale moves.
0:27 - I'm assuming this was an execution error... But immediately after that you rolled INTO your opponent. Two things you should never really do as Marth: 1) roll into your opponent and 2) air dodge into you opponent. Break this habit because at kill percents your basically handing them your ***.
0:32 - Ok, here you get hit. Your reaction to this is run in and smash, reapplying pressure. The correct thing to do here is reset the situation, as your sister's Ike has the advantage now. Good choices include: 1) throwing out an aerial (Fair or Nair) to wall him out as you recover and go back to neutral or 2) jumping out and retreating to setup your favorable spacing and zone.
0:40 - Your got Ike above you. Marth has a really good juggle game, and Usmash results in a fairly high, upward trajectory. While your opponent here counter, throwing out Uair or land --> Utilt would still allow you to have this advantage, apply pressure, and avoid the counter.
0:53 - Your game is starting to become very apparent and predictable here. A good smasher (any fighter really) reads his opponent and finds habits and/or patterns. This allows the to always be one step ahead of you. Your addiction to Usmash is deadly, as well as you always going for Fair after a Fthrow. Mix up your follow-ups.
1:02 - You gotta learn your options, especially when your below your opponent. Your sister throws out a very laggy and floaty Dair, in which you can punish with any of you upward moves (even your beloved Usmash).
1:07 - Umm why did you Dthrow? A good place to put the majority, if not all the cast of characters, is off the stage. Ike can be gimped by Marth with a combination of aerial pressure and using counter. While not all characters are easy to gimp, putting them off stage put them at a disadvantage and leaves you with more room to operate and them with less room for mistakes.
1:12 - Ok cool, you got her of the stage. But then you hug the ledge when she's half the screen above you... no bueno. In this matchup you got to apply pressure and aim to get Ike low off stage. A Bair would have given good results here.
1:17 - Don't use Bthrow here... Bthrow honestly blows compared to Dthrow because it has an awkward trajectory to link moves.
1:21 - View 0:27.
1:53 - Oy vey that was your window of opportunity. Your could've, and should've killed Ike here. You had ample time to use a tippered smash of your choice that would've taken the stock.
2:37 - You give up your stock here cause of what I said at 0:53.

So on and so on...

5:31 - Last bit of advice. There's no thought or methodology to you attacks. Your just putting out attacks in front of you instead of pressuring your opponent, putting them into traps, walling them out, and making punishes.

Hope this helps!

 

[Beninator]

What other approach options should I use with Marth that would be effective but less predictable?

The random Dancing Blade at :27 was my finger slipping, which is something that rarely happens to me.

At 5:31, exactly what would someone more skilled with Marth, such as yourself, do?

Over the summer, while on Smashville, I somehow Dolphin Slashed into the ledge, in such a way that the just reached it's height right as I reached the ledge, and somehow, I kind of bounced off the ledge into a Fair. I didn't grab the ledge or anything, just kind of almost teched off of it and Faired. Any idea what that was? I saved a replay if you need to view it.

On a semi-related note, while first learning how to DACUS, I found a way to cancel Snake's Dash Attack with his Up Smash, if it connects early on in the movie. I can also do this with Falco, and have seen this in a few tournament videos. SmashWiki mentions in in the Falco article, so it's well known enough. I was wondering if there are any other characters who can cancel their Dash Attack into an Up Smash if the DA hits. Also, I can do this with a Classic Controller every time with Snake and Falco, but have yet to even do it once with a Gamecube controller (my sister uses one, and when trying to teach her, I borrowed her controller, and tried for about five minutes straight.) Any reason it wouldn't work with that?

 

[Pr0phetic]

What other approach options should I use with Marth that would be effective but less predictable?

Marth can approach in a myriad of ways. If your gonna approach with an aerial, mix it up between Nairs and Fairs. You can also add in whether they are shorthopped, fullhopped, and are they rising or falling. On the ground, Marth has an amazing walk speed (fastest in the game) and tilts to pressure an opponent. Finally, dash --> shield and then see what your opponent responds with and punish accordingly.

The random Dancing Blade at :27 was my finger slipping, which is something that rarely happens to me.

Thought so looked odd lol

At 5:31, exactly what would someone more skilled with Marth, such as yourself, do?

Well you it let's look at it. Your opponent grabs as your go for an aerial and you both whiff. Here have an advantage, as you can Bair and score some percent. Or as you did, you can land and try to pressure and punish your opponents reaction. A roll should be met with DB or a grab. It's all just knowing what are your options to punish (in this situation a Bair, or land --> DB red)

Over the summer, while on Smashville, I somehow Dolphin Slashed into the ledge, in such a way that the just reached it's height right as I reached the ledge, and somehow, I kind of bounced off the ledge into a Fair. I didn't grab the ledge or anything, just kind of almost teched off of it and Faired. Any idea what that was? I saved a replay if you need to view it.

I forgot what this is called and why it happens atm, post this one in the Q&A thread! But it can happen every now and then.

On a semi-related note, while first learning how to DACUS, I found a way to cancel Snake's Dash Attack with his Up Smash, if it connects early on in the movie. I can also do this with Falco, and have seen this in a few tournament videos. SmashWiki mentions in in the Falco article, so it's well known enough. I was wondering if there are any other characters who can cancel their Dash Attack into an Up Smash if the DA hits. Also, I can do this with a Classic Controller every time with Snake and Falco, but have yet to even do it once with a Gamecube controller (my sister uses one, and when trying to teach her, I borrowed her controller, and tried for about five minutes straight.) Any reason it wouldn't work with that?

Most characters can do this but only a few (such as Snake and Falco) get noticeable boosts from it. Also, it might just be your execution timing with a different controller, because executing a DACUS on a GC controller is definitely possible.

 

[Beninator]

I'll be sure to keep your advice in mind and practice up.

For the DACUS bit, I know that everyone can do it, and my sister does it on a GCN controller with Link all the time. This may not belong in a Marth-based thread, but with both Snake and Falco, I can execute a similar move by Dash Attacking with A then (if I hit with the opening frames), cancel it into an Up Smash with any command that Up Smashes. This will cause Snake to slide forward, like in a DACUS, but Falco stands completely still and hits with his Up Smash (almost always combos). I can only do this with a Classic Controller, as those two, and only with an Up Smash.