Improving as Yoshi

[Defender]

Greetings, fellow Yoshi players. I started this thread in response to the first Yoshi ditto tournament. My intention is for it to be a place for the people who participated in the tournament to share what the tournament taught them, ask for help with problems in their gameplay that they discovered, and provide helpful tips to those that have run into problems.

I might as well go first. In my matches, I have discovered a problem with my gameplay, and I was wondering if you guys could give me any tips for solving this problem. I start out pretty good against each person, but as the matches wear on, they figure me out and I start getting punished (especially with grabs) for almost everthing that I do. Those of you who have played me probably know what I mean. I know that variety is one way to avoid this, but I think that I am doing a good job of mixing up my tactics. If anyone could give me any tips on avoiding this (especially you guys who have already played me), I would really appreciate it.

 

[Kiwikomix]

I will halp!
I've noticed that the grabs tend to happen to me as well, especially in Yoshi dittos where pivots are common. You're most likely not changing up your approach enough. (This is copied almost word-for-word from bigman's advice to Chaco and me, by the way.) There are so many ways of approaching - bairs and dash attacks are the most common, but against people with slower ranged moves (aka not Yoshi) walk to ftilt seems to work pretty well. Running grabs and nairs are also an option.
If your approaches are constantly getting read and punished, then consider not approaching at all, if you can afford it. Against many characters (about half the roster) Yoshi can spam eggs until kingdom come, so just make THEM approach. A lot of what Yoshi approaches with can actually deter approaches as well (ftilt, bair, and pivot grabs are a good example but dtilt and usmash are occasional options too). Hope that helps a bit.

Now for my question... One thing I've noticed is that Yoshi has a lot of trouble coming down from the air, since dair has limited range and downB has low priority. Is there any other way to combat this besides airdodging down to the ground?

 

[Forsworn]

Hmm, try using that aerial mobility to get to the side of an opponent and use B-air/surprise egglay to fend them off. Mix up your fall speeds too.

 

[Mmac]

One of the most helpful things for Yoshi is mastering the Pivot Grab. It's makes Yoshi's Grabs 22.3 Times better! It's even better when you learn how to do "Quick Pivot Grabbing", which makes it Pivot grab standing still. To do it. Just Dash, Grab, and C-Stick in the opposite direction, all in a quick succession. The direction you grab is where you press the C-Stick. It may sound complex in first, but just practise with it for 20 minutes, and it should feel like a natural movement.

Now for my question... One thing I've noticed is that Yoshi has a lot of trouble coming down from the air, since dair has limited range and downB has low priority. Is there any other way to combat this besides airdodging down to the ground?

I find that a Fastfall Bair or Nair work pretty good, depending on the situation. But I think Airdodging is the best option

 

[Blistering Speed]

Now for my question... One thing I've noticed is that Yoshi has a lot of trouble coming down from the air, since dair has limited range and downB has low priority. Is there any other way to combat this besides airdodging down to the ground?

Good timing on N Airs is often a good alternate to airdodge, as is B Air if you keep the opponent on the tail end of it (lorl) with DI. Other then that you can always keep your opponent guessing with your specials, as they all change your DI in a different way. I dont know I've never had much of a problem with it it thanks to Yoshi's aerial speed.

 

[Defender]

I will halp!
I've noticed that the grabs tend to happen to me as well, especially in Yoshi dittos where pivots are common. You're most likely not changing up your approach enough. (This is copied almost word-for-word from bigman's advice to Chaco and me, by the way.) There are so many ways of approaching - bairs and dash attacks are the most common, but against people with slower ranged moves (aka not Yoshi) walk to ftilt seems to work pretty well. Running grabs and nairs are also an option.
If your approaches are constantly getting read and punished, then consider not approaching at all, if you can afford it. Against many characters (about half the roster) Yoshi can spam eggs until kingdom come, so just make THEM approach. A lot of what Yoshi approaches with can actually deter approaches as well (ftilt, bair, and pivot grabs are a good example but dtilt and usmash are occasional options too). Hope that helps a bit.

Now for my question... One thing I've noticed is that Yoshi has a lot of trouble coming down from the air, since dair has limited range and downB has low priority. Is there any other way to combat this besides airdodging down to the ground?

Thank you. That sounds like good advice. I guess I didn't really recognize that nairs were a good option for approaching, and I know I don't use dair approaches near enough. Does anyone else use a grounded Yoshi Bomb to approach, or is that just a bad habit of mine that I need to break?

I find that I have the same problem coming down from the air. One thing that can work well (but can also be risky) is to wait until your opponent is jumping up towards you, and then, just a second before he reaches you, use the Yoshi Bomb. If done correctly, you will stop in the air, spin, and then descend upon your opponent who attacked where you were going to be and missed. You have to be careful with this though, because you will get hit if you time things wrong or if the opponent expected this and attacked a little later than usual. I also occasionally try moving to the side a little bit right before they reach me and using a bair. Lastly, I've never really tried it, but I suppose that you could use your great arial speed to quickly get above the side of the stage and Yoshi Bomb so that you catch the edge. That way you decend quickly and don't land in a vulnerable position.

 

[Chaco]

i have learned that ground Yoshi Bombs ****...all that dash towards me. It fits in well with my extremely aggressive style.

 

[Deleted member]

Against a lot of characters, airdodging is the best choice to get to the ground. NEVER EVER EVER EVER DOWN B IN THE AIR unless they are being dumb and overly aggressive. Its really really really easy to punish.

Also, a general tip to people, alot of yoshis do this. Try not to dash attack too much, its pretty easy to avoid and punish, online you can get away with it, but offline, not so much. Just try to limit your usage of it as an approach.

 

[Defender]

Hello again everyone. I was playing a few matches with Biohazard930, and I noticed that, although I could do damage, I had a hard time finishing him. I've noticed this in other matches, and I was wondering if any of you could give me some tips on going in for the kill.

 

[Chaco]

Grounded Down B, it is your best killing bet if you are having trouble.But you have to use it as a rariety.

 

[Chaco]

Well, also you can do Uairs, Nairs at over 120%, umm the fair spike(but it's a to low percentage), also you can do the DR kill.

Sry for the DP, I'll use Shiri's excuse...I'm worth it.

 

[Kiwikomix]

In case you didn't know already (I'm sure you do), Yoshi's KO moves are fsmash, usmash, and uair. At higher percents downB, nair, and dsmash work as well. I generally don't go for fair spikes, but I'm pretty sure they go through Yoshi's DJ jugg frames at a higher percent. Another thing you might try (not necessarily against Yoshi, because his uair is rangy) is a dair-footstool for a kill. It generally seems to work just as well as fair.

 

[Defender]

Thanks for the tips. Yeah, I know what Yoshi's killing moves are, (though I didn't consider nair or dsmash that good at it. I'll have to try them out.) but what I'm really looking for are tactics for pulling these moves off (combos that lead to killing moves, good smash set-ups, ect.). The dair to footstool that Kiwikomix mentioned is the kind of thing that I'm looking for.

Oh, and I also wanted to say something to those Yoshi players who still jump using tap-jump. This Yoshi ditto tournament really showed me the limitations of jumping using tap-jump, so I switched to using the x and y buttons to jump. It immediately made a big differnce in my play, and I recommend that everybody who plays smash learn to jump without tap jump as doing so allows you to use all kinds of moves, such as a bair approach, that are really hard to do if you use the control stick to jump. This probably isn't news to many of you, but this simple change helped me a lot, (though it was hard to bring myself to do it since I have always jumped using tap-jump and didn't want to learn to jump any other way) so I just want to encourage any of you who still jump using tap jump, to take the short amount of time necessary to relearn your jumping. It will be worth it in the long term!

 

[Deleted member]

Dtilt to fair or dair offstage. Spotdodge a slower attack -> grounded down b. Egg an aerial opponent to rising uair. Bair to fsmash or usmash. Running usmash on an opponent coming down works sometimes. Rising nair offstage is too good as well, and rising fair spike is fun and flashy.

 

[Defender]

Thanks, I'll have to start practicing those tactics.

 

[EggZavier]

Yoshi's really good if used properly

 

[Defender]

Yoshi's really good if used properly

Well, I don't know whether Yoshi can ever be considered "really" good (much as I love him), but he can at least be a decent character if used properly. This tournament really showed that. Even if he isn't god tier, though, a good Yoshi can be a nasty surprise, as few people actually know how to fight him well.

 

[Yinlong]

Thanks for the tips. Yeah, I know what Yoshi's killing moves are, (though I didn't consider nair or dsmash that good at it. I'll have to try them out.) but what I'm really looking for are tactics for pulling these moves off (combos that lead to killing moves, good smash set-ups, ect.). The dair to footstool that Kiwikomix mentioned is the kind of thing that I'm looking for.

Oh, and I also wanted to say something to those Yoshi players who still jump using tap-jump. This Yoshi ditto tournament really showed me the limitations of jumping using tap-jump, so I switched to using the x and y buttons to jump. It immediately made a big differnce in my play, and I recommend that everybody who plays smash learn to jump without tap jump as doing so allows you to use all kinds of moves, such as a bair approach, that are really hard to do if you use the control stick to jump. This probably isn't news to many of you, but this simple change helped me a lot, (though it was hard to bring myself to do it since I have always jumped using tap-jump and didn't want to learn to jump any other way) so I just want to encourage any of you who still jump using tap jump, to take the short amount of time necessary to relearn your jumping. It will be worth it in the long term!

i use x and y, but leave my tap jump on. is there really any benefit to turning it off?

 

[biohazard930]

i use x and y, but leave my tap jump on. is there really any benefit to turning it off?

I turned mine off because sometimes when I used UpB, my first jump was used and then instantly cancelled by the Egg Throw. Thus, half the time when I threw an egg from off the stage, I killed myself from thinking I had two jumps when I really had only one.

 

[Fingerp@ss]

Against a lot of characters, airdodging is the best choice to get to the ground. NEVER EVER EVER EVER DOWN B IN THE AIR unless they are being dumb and overly aggressive. Its really really really easy to punish.

Also, a general tip to people, alot of yoshis do this. Try not to dash attack too much, its pretty easy to avoid and punish, online you can get away with it, but offline, not so much. Just try to limit your usage of it as an approach.

I agree that down B in the air should be used less however it does work good depending on the other player. Its good for getting down really fast and you can use it to reset yourself on the ground if you get a hit with the initial smash or the stars (should give you enough time to roll away or whatever). A good move to practice that can really catch your opponent off guard is a dash to a grounded down B since if anything they will probably be waiting for the regular dash attack. Yeah and the dash attack has got to be one of Yoshi's worst moves but it is pretty decent on an opponent after hitting them up in the air something like ftilt/dtilt->dash attack->dash up smash/egg toss/anything.

 

[Kiwikomix]

DownB is actually a pretty viable option on the edges of levels like Yoshi's Island and Lylat. Try it some time, it will usually put you in a good place for ECE's.

 

[Defender]

i use x and y, but leave my tap jump on. is there really any benefit to turning it off?

Sorry I wasn't more clear in what I was saying. I was really just advocating jumping with the "x" or "y" buttons, but like Bio said, there is an advantage to outright turning tap jump off. However, before you turn off tap jump, you may want to consider the fact that having it on is supposed to make DR'ing easier. In my opinion, though, it is much better to have the ability to throw eggs in the air without fear of killing yourself than it is to have a slightly easier time pulling off a DR. That is just my personal opinion, though, and you may decide that having tap jump on is what suits you. Either way, I still think that it's nice to understand something of the pros and cons of each option, and I hope my post was helpful in that regard.

 

[Deleted member]

Yea down b on the edges is amazing, i just like spam it for mindgames =P