Improvement (Can beat CPU, can't beat anyone online)

[MedL]

Hey all,
Lately I've noticed that I'm right in between the two levels of improvement:
- I can beat the cpu on lvl 9 very consistently.
- I CANNOT beat anybody online. I'm basically just a punching bag.

As for some background, I'm a Ness main, and I watch a lot of tourneys on YouTube. This is where a lvl 12 cpu would come in handy.

So how can I work my way up to being able to win online?

 

[Greda]

Winning or losing online doesn't determine you for a great player or not. There is lag, stage choice, and stupid matchups that all determine if you win or not.

-For Fun

• Smash: It's time, so expect Kill Steals. Also there might be lag, or item interference. Also really horrid stage selection.
• Team Smash: All of above, as well as bad partners. If my partner gets -6 and I get +4, it would be unreasonable to call myself bad.

-For Glory

• Smash: Time again, so the typical: Kill Steal, Lag, characters who are good and aren't at FD.
• Team Smash: Time (ugh), all problems of For Fun Team Smash excluding items.
• 1-on-1: FD pretty much welcomes projectile reliant characters with open arms, which imo makes this stage unbalanced to test true skill on. There are some characters that are good or bad in this stage, and this shouldn't even be a way to test your skill in the first place. Not to mention most people here like to zone like crazy, limiting you with types of players, where most people I play against in real life don't, also lag. Ex: I suck at FG, but I'm much MUCH better irl when these factors aren't a concern.

If you want to get better, play with others locally.

 

[MedL]

Thanks for the input!
Unfortunately, 1v1 for glory is what I want to get good at. I just manage to get punched around all the time on it. Would playing on for fun or other modes, like team, a good way to practice?

 

[Wintropy]

There's a very, very simple process here that will help you improve.

>play for glory
>get bodied
>try again
>get bodied again
>figure out why you got bodied
>practice to overcome those things
>try again
>win
>feel proud
>keep playing

I know it sounds like I'm being facetious, but I'm being sincere here. It's a tough learning curve, I know, but getting beaten will make you a better player, as long as you know why you were beaten and practice hard so that it doesn't happen again. Defeat is only a demoralising experience if you let it be. Turn every defeat into a means to improve. You'll get better in due time and then you'll realise that, in the long run, these struggles and hardships helped make you a better player.

 

[「 Derk 」]

When you lose a match, save the replay. Study where you were messing up and find ways to stop or change what you were doing wrong. Don't get angry if you are losing, the opponent is showing you something that you need to improve on whether they realize it or not. However, it's up to you to actually pay attention and study what they are showing you. You will always learn more from your losses than your wins. Also, don't take For Glory very seriously lol.

 

[Greda]

Also it's noteworthy to mention playing with Lv 9 CPU is a bad way to practice, if you have no alternatives, at least do Lv 8.

 

[Kunoku]

How comfortable are you with the controls? If you do not feel comfortable with the controls that can play a big role in why you feel that way. It took me a while to get comfortable to the 3ds but now I currently have a 94.70% win ratio. However my opponents might not be used to the controls and is why they might not be playing to the best of their ability. I know for a fact that if I play on the Wii U I would get destroyed because of those GC controllers >.>

Smash for the 3ds is awesome but I can't dismiss the fact that the controls do limit your ability to play your best say if you could use more controls for that version, still I love this game!

 

[Cthulhu_MD]

Also it's noteworthy to mention playing with Lv 9 CPU is a bad way to practice, if you have no alternatives, at least do Lv 8.

Why Level 8?

 

[FalKoopa]

Hey all,
Lately I've noticed that I'm right in between the two levels of improvement:
- I can beat the cpu on lvl 9 very consistently.
- I CANNOT beat anybody online. I'm basically just a punching bag.

As for some background, I'm a Ness main, and I watch a lot of tourneys on YouTube. This is where a lvl 12 cpu would come in handy.

So how can I work my way up to being able to win online?

CPU's play quite differently from human players. That's the root of the problem, I think.

Try to play against human players offline/online. Use only a few characters you'll really good at. Remember, human players will often fall prey to tricks that don't work on CPUs and vice-versa. You'll improve.

 

[jxthrx]

Why Level 8?

Level 9 CPUs directly read inputs, so it removes the entire "human" element of good AI. It knows exactly what you plan on doing based on your inputs and always acts accordingly with perfectly timed attacks, counters, shields, and chain air dodges with almost frame precision.

Fighting a level 9 CPU almost always turns the match into a game of baiting the CPU into one thing and punishing. I mean both are a good skill to learn for sure, but there's a lot more to higher level Smash play than just those two things.

 

[Dragonspiller]

Join the club! I can't beat Level 9 CPUs consistently either. I mostly train on LV 5 CPU's and don't go online. If I do go online I usually do for glory 1V1.

 

[Poppy100]

"Winning or losing online doesn't determine you for a great player or not. There is lag, stage choice, and stupid matchups that all determine if you win or not."

This attitude annoys me to no end, there was even another topic...(not sure if it was on this site) where most people were saying playing online doesn't help you improve or show your skill, when NEITHER of those are true. The part about CPU characters only allowing you to learn so much is accurate though.

Anyway, it might take a while, but you might find a character your very comfortable with, and if not...well...most people I go against online are terrible to the point of being entirely forgettable anyway, so your probably amongst people who see where your coming from. X_X;

 

[MedL]

Hey everybody,
Thanks for all the responses. I'm taking your advice, and I have to say: it's really paying off. I practice against level 8 CPUs when I have to, and play online. I'm actually winning more often.
D3RK, your advice for learning from my mistakes is very helpful. When I play online now, I diagnose the problem, or the thing I have to work on, and play slightly differently the next battle.
Also, I am practicing with Diddy now. He's a lot different from Ness, since he's faster. I feel like they cover up each other's weaknesses a little.

Another thing I would like to add is the mental aspect of playing online. Against high level CPUs, I start to play differently, since some nerves get to me. And like my saxophone teacher says, to play relaxed, you have to practice relaxed.

Your advice is really helping, guys. Do you think watching people in tournaments on YouTube is helpful? Like watching JTails or M2K in tourneys?

 

[stancosmos]

Hey all,
Lately I've noticed that I'm right in between the two levels of improvement:
- I can beat the cpu on lvl 9 very consistently.
- I CANNOT beat anybody online. I'm basically just a punching bag.

As for some background, I'm a Ness main, and I watch a lot of tourneys on YouTube. This is where a lvl 12 cpu would come in handy.

So how can I work my way up to being able to win online?

Don't train against computers at all. Beating CPU's teaches you how to exploit. You'll wind up being way too predictable and unable to read the opponent. Charging a smash and waiting for the opponent to walk into it, only works on CPUs. never on good players. Play for glory, learn how to notice patterns. If the opponent always rolls back on stage from a ledge, prepare for that and attck where that roll comes out. Punish predictable behaviour.

 

[Lunix7]

Hey everybody,
Thanks for all the responses. I'm taking your advice, and I have to say: it's really paying off. I practice against level 8 CPUs when I have to, and play online. I'm actually winning more often.
D3RK, your advice for learning from my mistakes is very helpful. When I play online now, I diagnose the problem, or the thing I have to work on, and play slightly differently the next battle.
Also, I am practicing with Diddy now. He's a lot different from Ness, since he's faster. I feel like they cover up each other's weaknesses a little.

Another thing I would like to add is the mental aspect of playing online. Against high level CPUs, I start to play differently, since some nerves get to me. And like my saxophone teacher says, to play relaxed, you have to practice relaxed.

Your advice is really helping, guys. Do you think watching people in tournaments on YouTube is helpful? Like watching JTails or M2K in tourneys?

First things first. Stick to one character you really want to learn since switching too much can ruin your play style for that particular character you been practicing in the first place. Up to this point you have been using ness so far and by using diddy you have to change play styles to adapt to diddy which is just going to be hard on you. Next like others have said see what you are doing wrong and learn from it. Try to be unpredictable to your opponent, not by being completely random but offering a few mix-ups to avoid being predictable.

What I like to do is try to find moves that counter a lot of attacks. For example ness's Nair and Fair counter a lot of attacks and is pretty safe for the most part if you space correctly and have almost no lag. So use this to your advantage! Also get familiar with certain combos. Such as PK fire -> Dash attack or Bgrab. Try not to use Pk fire all the time since again it will be predictable. Ness's Dgrab follows up to Fair and ness's grabs in general are really powerful! Basically what I'm trying to say is get familiar with the character and find a play style that works for you. Get a feel for his moves and don't be afraid to mix things up with grabs. Hopefully this helps! If you ever need help I can spar with you and help you with your character!

 

[MedL]

Thanks for your response Lunix7,
I see what you mean by the multi-character thing. In fact, when I switch from Diddy to Ness, I'll often do his first PK Thunder recovery so badly, since I am so used to charging it, as I do with Diddy.

I think I'm getting pretty fluid and comfortable with what to do and when, just my reactions to my opponents moves are a bit slow, so I notice that I tend to mash a random a attack sometimes, often a forward smash when I do. But this will probably come with experience.

I also am noticing that Ness isn't the most flexible character in the world. PK fire > down thow > fair... Seems like this is his game, along with a few out of shield nairs and a back throw finish. His other moves are pretty bad compared to these, though, so I feel more comfortable being unpredictable with Diddy. I haven't been playing the game long (since Christmas), and Ness far less. I'm actually feeling a little more comfortable with Diddy, too. He fits my play style more, since I like being fast, and not having baggy Ness pants to float my way down from an upmash to my, rather inevitable, death, lol.

There may be a time when I need help, so what is your friend code? I'll get mine tomorrow and post it on here if I get the chance.

 

[Random4811]

Your advice is really helping, guys. Do you think watching people in tournaments on YouTube is helpful? Like watching JTails or M2K in tourneys?

First, don't listen to FG's naysayers. You're not going to improve without playing against humans, and FG is prime for that. There are the downsides, but if nothing else, you will own FD if you ever try tournies. Plus FG can be the breeding ground of friendship on the Wii U, as you can add people as friends from the results screen, and get training like that. 3DS's is slightly less useful, but hey, thats cool. Its still gonna help you learn spacing, learn what tricks work against people and what don't, and let you learn from other's playstyles. (like, I got freshman 3 stocked by a Ganondorf main the other day, which destroyed my 5 player winning streak; I play each person in sets, 1 set per character. Most leave after the first set though. The Ganon was amazing, and I can learn a lot from him.)

Second, yes it /can/ be helpful. But you kind of have to know what they're doing already, and /why/ its good and /what/ is making them win. Just trying to imitate them isnt going to help you any more than trying to imitate Tony Hawk is going to help an adolescent skateboarding fan. If you want to get good at Smash at any sort of competitive level, you've got some mechanics to study and techs to learn. Also you have to learn why things are good or bad, when things should and shouldnt be used, etc.

If you were recently struggling against LVL 9's, you are clearly at the beginning of your comp Smash career. LVL 9's can be semi useful to train against, but dont put much stock in matches against them. They can help you learn spacing and zoning, and some general good habits.

Honestly, if you want to get better, try joining some free online tourneys. Sign up, see how far you can get (dont be dissapointed if you dont get out of the first round, I didnt for my first couple of gos, due to nerves and being outskilled) but the people you will play will be generally friendly and helpful in my experience.

 

[_gold_]

I can't stand playing against CPU's. I rarely play with them anymore. Try this.
Never, and I mean never, think getting better with CPU's will improve your chances with random people online. I don't mean to discourage you, but the play styles are like from two separate dimensions. Instead of practicing with CPU's, do it rather online.
For instance, I play For Glory all the time. On the rare occasions I do play against CPU's, I almost find it harder. There movements are almost foreign to me. Like I said, completely different play styles.

 

[Wintropy]

I can't stand playing against CPU's. I rarely play with them anymore. Try this.
Never, and I mean never, think getting better with CPU's will improve your chances with random people online. I don't mean to discourage you, but the play styles are like from two separate dimensions. Instead of practicing with CPU's, do it rather online.
For instance, I play For Glory all the time. On the rare occasions I do play against CPU's, I almost find it harder. There movements are almost foreign to me. Like I said, completely different play styles.

Seconded. Playing online has taught me to play to my strengths rather than rush in for the kill. The former makes fighting CPUs much trickier, since they're programmed to fight in a particular way. Fighting real people will help you get better at fighting real people.

 

[Cthulhu_MD]

Like everyone stated, FG seems the be the most viable way to get better. Playing against CPU is extremely different compared to playing to real life people. CPU, even on level 8 and 9, will just walk towards you and you can just smash them away. They're not made for competitive play at all. Just see if you can also go to a local tourney in your area and learn from the others around you.

 

[Pale Tuna]

I'm starting to lose often online now since the lag is becoming more apparent than before. Some matches seem lagless while most are just awful. I keep getting discouraged when playing FG due to that. I had a few matches before posting this and I had 2 fine matches, the rest were laggy. I guess to become better, I would have to adapt to the lag.