IMPORTANT. We need to fix SSBwiki (Smash4) articles for competitive usage.

[crysisnova]

NOTE: Please look at the big picture of what i'm trying to convey. I'm hoping some, if any inconsistencies won't damage my credibility. I'm not making any type of debate or argument, I'm just speaking my mind out on what I feel really needs to change... Spelling or slight grammar (i'm tired.) inconsistencies shouldn't invalidate my point... I'm just speaking my mind and heart out because I love this game with a passion.

This has been on my mind for a while Smash 4 is a game where meticulous knowledge of your character and fully understanding how the characters work are the big priorities to knowing your offensive and defensive options... The game has been out for 6 or 7 months and since then we have come so far to learn about the game's competitive depth and the secret potential of characters...

What bothers me is all of these great resources and tech, in which we as a community can just build on and expand to endless limits, is spread out in all of these random, incohesive sources... There are SO many great guides on the properties of Olimar's Pikmin properties on eventhub http://www.eventhubs.com/moves/ssb4/olimar/move/special-moves/pikmin-pluck/ that I didn't even ****ing know about, and if I could take a guess, not alot of people are aware of...

This is a Link Tech video "The Art of Link"... Craziest stuff I've seen in a while

http://youtu.be/PwpIxtg82I0?t=4m36s
(This video teaches how to use the tether grab FROM THE BOTTOM OF AN OMEGA STAGE TO THE OTHER SIDE. This video only has 8,000 views... why?)

People take it on they're own to research the characters and explore they're capabilities and what they find is an ocean of potential, just new layers of metagame in what they are able of doing... But they all just get lost in a bunch of different sources, where people have to dig and get lucky if they ever wanna find this videos...

Did you know peach has a combo video and she's capable of doing combos up to like...13 hits?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJmTMd1lzjU but the video only has 30k views, and no one is going to find this...

We need to take the initiative as a community and fix SSB4 wiki (signing up is easy). The issue is, sometimes the move set descriptions for characters are TOO simple. They describe what the move is, but may not describe how it works (very, VERY important. Even for neutral attacks, because they create offensive and defensive options when we know how they work)

ALOT OF Characters in Smash 4 (take Yoshi for example) have hidden features in move sets, something beginners won't notice unless they read the tips in the menu (which is too ****ing difficult to navigate because of it's random nature) How do I know flicking back right after up tilt causes yoshi to throw eggs upwards? http://www.ssbwiki.com/index.php?title=Yoshi_(SSB4)&oldid=648031#Moveset (this is the current version from when this post was written) it doesn't even ****ing say that in the moveset list.

If you know your characters well and are well versed in using them, then maybe help people who aren't as such, better at the character, edit the article! Don't write strategy/play style or how that attack should be used since it's very subjective (though making suggestions could be fine, though subjective information like connecting into certain attacks usually gets edited out.) But help by jotting down the PROPERTIES of the move, does it do a meteor smash? Where is it's hitbox? Does it have fast recovery? Does it have super armor? what about some invincibility frames on start-up? Can you charge it? Do you have to hold curtain directions/buttons to activate special functions of the attack (alot of characters in Smash 4 have this... it separates those who know the character from those who don't.)?

This is too simple...
http://www.ssbwiki.com/Olimar_(SSB4)#Moveset

This is so much better...
http://www.ssbwiki.com/Mario_(SSB4)#Moveset

Take this for example, the character that alot of Smash players I hear don't understand and have difficulty learning how to use is Mr. Game and Watch (who is my main). Today, during my lunch I edited the move set descriptions of Mr. Game and Watch...

THIS IS THE ORIGINAL ARTICLE FOR GAME AND WATCH FROM YESTERDAY
http://www.ssbwiki.com/index.php?title=Mr._Game_&_Watch_(SSB4)&oldid=649018#Moveset

THIS IS THE ARTICLE AFTER MY ALTERATIONS TODAY, EVEN AFTER NUMEROUS EDITS FROM OTHER PEOPLE.
(they didn't delete mine. they just fixed up some errors, no one messed with it!)
http://www.ssbwiki.com/Mr._Game_&_Watch_(SSB4)#Moveset

This is very useful for people who are picking up Game and Watch and maybe even thinking of using him for tournaments... Before, the writers just explained the attack animations and left... People need to know more than this to get good with a character...

You know your characters, and you're great with them, you know what they're attacks do... Teach people who are using them...
https://www.google.com/search?
q=SSB4+PAC+MAN&oq=SSB4+PAC+MAN&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i60.6175j0j4&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8
It's the first site that appears in a google search when I search for a character... Why not just make it easy for them?




I'm just saying, we should just take the initiative as a community and expand the Smash 4 sections of SSBwiki competitively...
http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Skullgirls/Filia#Move_List
ShouyukenWiki does a GREAT job at this, and I just want the same for SBBwiki... to educate how the attacks work and

We should take the time to make it into something where, people can read the article and actually LEARN the characters and not be alienated from them... I hope you understand my point and why i'm trying to ask people to teach about they're character and contribute... SSBwiki is open to everyone, and the purpose of a wiki is to share and collaborate what you know and understand, to those who don't...


and next time you see a great video on youtube on advanced tech, why not put it on that character's wiki so people could easily learn it too... Maybe some of those awesome guides on smashboards, get it into the character's wiki... Found any interesting Ness guides? get it into the wiki.

There, now we have a character wiki article that doesn't just talk about alternate colors and trophies, now we have one that's informative and teaches how a character works.

I'm not saying ALL character wiki articles are like this... But still, why not improve on something that's kinda weak?

I really feel if we start doing this, people who read these articles will have an easier time learning characters and find interesting stuff they otherwise would never have found, and we could really push the metagame forward. If we get more specific on how characters work we can figure out how to manipulate a character's abilities in new and useful ways.

 

[TimeSmash]

That wiki is so varied in quality it's horrendous. Now is good a time as any to start somewhere

 

[crysisnova]

Who else wants to join me to fix the wiki?

We need to do this, all I'm asking is if you know your character well, EDIT THE ARTICLE AND BETTER DEFINE THE ATTACK PROPERTIES OF YOUR CHARACTER'S MOVE SETS, HOW IT WORKS.

People will understand the characters better because they know what they're options are, and we can alleviate the skill barrier between those who understand the characters and those who don't.


Simple stuff like Pit being able to control his arrow, or Peach's turnip dissapearing once it hits the ground, and the accumulated amount of time it's in air = the durability of her turnip...

http://www.ssbwiki.com/Marth_(SSBM)#Moveset

Hell, even the melee movesets are like this... Why can't we try to contribute the same for Smash 4?

 

[Gunla]

Moved to Competitive Discussion.

 

[◥θ┴θ◤ | JJ]

I think it even incorrectly lists the Smash 4 icon at the top right of the meteor-cancelling page when I'm pretty sure that's impossible to do for the first time since SSB64.

 

[DavemanCozy]

I'm out.

I've tried helping that wiki before in the past, but it's continually ended in arguments with others who think they know better. The most infuriating instance was when I added input in the Fox page, and some Melee player (a MELEE player who doesn't even play Smash Wii U) got mad at me and tried arguing that Fox is a bad character in Smash4. I gave up.

Hopefully you have better luck.

 

[◥θ┴θ◤ | JJ]

I'm out.

I've tried helping that wiki before in the past, but it's continually ended in arguments with others who think they know better. The most infuriating instance was when I added input in the Fox page, and some Melee player (a MELEE player who doesn't even play Smash Wii U) got mad at me and tried arguing that Fox is a bad character in Smash4. I gave up.

Hopefully you have better luck.

Just when you thought the Melee community couldn't get any more annoying.

 

[TimeSmash]

Just when you thought the Melee community couldn't get any more annoying.

Let's not start that now, haha.

In terms of arguments, wouldn't it be best to direct (and also cite) threads here where actual frame data and damage has been found, calculated, and confirmed by multiple people? Talk about inter-relater reliability haha

 

[Charey]

I added super armor and the like to Charizard's page.

I sort of think a reformat of the movelist would be more helpful, it's hard to add anything but the most basic information about a move without endless run on paragraphs. But that would require the owner to change it.

 

[wedl!!]

why are you assuming a wiki for a game which has a huge casual following would be accurate for competitive exactly

Just when you thought the Melee community couldn't get any more annoying.

wow man that was so funny i forgot to laugh

 

[◥θ┴θ◤ | JJ]

wow man that was so funny i forgot to laugh

I wasn't trying to be funny.

 

[Mobes]

My psuedo-OCD is acting up, but I wish I could blow up "supersmashbros.wikia.com" so we only have one singular Smash Bros wiki around. Better yet, I wouldn't mind "wiki.smashboards.com" or something of that nature. I think I react super-badly to redundancy in the internet age.

Best of luck to whoever goes in hard editing, you're doing great work

 

[DavemanCozy]

I personally think smashboards > ssbwiki in terms of competitive data. Ssbwiki does do a good job of compiling all the game elements though, including unlockables, customs, items, etc.

Just when you thought the Melee community couldn't get any more annoying.

For the record, this was one singular member who just happened to make the worst experience for me. I know many Melee players who are nice.

 

[Raijinken]

I support this idea. Heck, even if you don't tailor it to competitive information, just making what's there accurate and consistent would be great. One page I read said Zamus got a change in 3D-1.04, but her own page didn't even mention it.

 

[◥θ┴θ◤ | JJ]

For the record, this was one singular member who just happened to make the worst experience for me. I know many Melee players who are nice.

Oh, I know, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying literally every Melee player is an elitist, or anything -- take Hungrybox, for example. A lot of the people that play Melee exclusively are like that, though, and they're very vocal.

 

[TimeSmash]

So...how are you guys planning to do this? Wouldn't it be good to assign people to sections or have some sort of plan going forward? You could have people sign up to work on specific sections, or just have everyone volunteer and then assign them. If you don't really have a plan, it's going to be a lot harder getting an accurate scope of data about the characters as well as the game overall

 

[Raijinken]

So...how are you guys planning to do this? Wouldn't it be good to assign people to sections or have some sort of plan going forward? You could have people sign up to work on specific sections, or just have everyone volunteer and then assign them. If you don't really have a plan, it's going to be a lot harder getting an accurate scope of data about the characters as well as the game overall

This is a good point to make. Part of the reason data quality differs is because not all characters (or modes, or playstyles, or what have you) are anywhere near equally represented. Olimar's probably one of the least-played characters in the game over-all, contrast Diddy or Sheik for power, or Mario or Little Mac for popularity. Without either a) petitioning character board notaries to compile their own information and then edit it to a specific format (not terribly unlike the custom moveset project in organization), or b) assigning specific general volunteers to specific character sections, there's virtually no way to make sure the data gets input with comparable quality.

 

[popsofctown]

Do people actually read the wiki?

 

[Raijinken]

Do people actually read the wiki?

-raises hand-

It's non-negligibly faster than searching the internet for a list of damage values and additional move properties. I will, without fail, risk inaccuracy in order to save time, because at the end of the day, I don't care if I'm off by a few units of shield damage, or if the move actually deals half a percent more damage than listed, I just want to get back to playing, and have a slightly more accurate idea of what was going on that prompted me to wonder in the first place. Especially if it's part of the 1/3 or so of the roster that I really just don't like enough to go test myself or scrounge the character boards for information on. Especially considering that information on the rest of the internet is in no way guaranteed to be any more accurate. How many conflicting reports of any given character's properties can you find on the boards here? My answer: too many for confidence.

Wikis are powerful timesaving tools, ours just suffers from an almost complete lack of quality control standards and meaningful contribution.

 

[TimeSmash]

Do people actually read the wiki?

Actually yes. I usually get my info on here, but it does give some helpful info now and again in an easy-to-recognize format, as opposed to the varying ones used here. The only thing I can really think of recently that I got from there was learning part of the reason Fourside is banned in Melee (the Peach bomber stall). But that was months ago. It could be hypothesized that as the quality of that wiki improves, so will the viewership

 

[Cazdon]

I think this could be an entire project similar to the Custom Moves Projects. If anyone is willing to really organize this, I'd easily back and support it.

 

[Claire Diviner]

Working on the wiki site seems like quite the tall order. There are actually terms for techs and glitches that don't have their own article, so if pages for those terms can be added for the sake of having info available, that'd be nice. All in all, I usually get competitive info in the character specific boards in the forum.

 

[TimeSmash]

It would be great to at least build a foundation over the next couple of days. Things to be addressed are:


-Description of characters (history, weight, playstyle, etc). Some of this is already covered
-In character movesets, there is a large amount of red links, which basically mean an article isn't made for that topic but should be. To solve this, the red links should either actually have an article/stub made on them, or be deemed not to be worthy of an article. Like you don't need a red link for every little thing.
-Actual confirmed hitbox and damage data, cited from an official thread from here who has empirically tested said data.
-Some pages lack animation or pictures in general--while being sparing is a good thing, some things should be added here and there, but keeping the concept of quality versus quantity

Those are just some suggestions I can think of currently