I'm so frustrated by my level of play

[Sacrosanct]

I try and try to get better and i keep get bodied by people who I know are not good. People seem to get away with whatever they want against me and I never get away with anything.

Let me start by saying my two mainly played characters are Samus and Ganon.

I know they arent considered high tier but i am a firm believer that skill trumps tier.


I play this game a lot. For hours and hours, with the sole intention of getting better. I'm limited to online play most of the time but i have a lan adapter and the connection is good more often then not so im fine with it.

Problems I know I have:

- I have a weak approach and I don't know how to fix it.
- I roll too much. It's gotten significantly better but my spacing game is awful.
- My grab game is next to non-existant, with the characters i play I seem to get punished for trying more then im rewarded.
- My inputs are sloppy. I keep changing my control scheme to compensate. Right now I have my tilts on C-stick but i still use up to jump because i cant break the habit of doing it. I use X to jump a lot but whenever I have to recover my brain says up on stick.
-Because im used to c stick being a quick smash i often use it to do just that and end up tilting and messing up my intended play. I know this comes down to paying my dues and ingraining it in muscle memory but its been really hard to break.


My concern is that I have a big local tournament coming up and I actually feel like ive gotten worse over the past couple of days and i could tear my hair out.


Any training advice I could get (specifically for ganon because thats who i plan to play in the tournament the most) would be greatly appreciated.

 

[_gold_]

Let me start by saying my two mainly played characters are Samus and Ganon. I know they arent considered high tier but i am a firm believer that skill trumps tier.

Yeah, don't ever let that discourage you. Any player, if practiced with long enough, can compete with any of the top tiers.

That being said though, you said you roll too much. Ganondorf, and especially Samus, have some of the worst rolls in the game. I know it's hard, cause it's a habit, but try and break that habit. There's other, and better options (e.g. shielding, or simply running away).
Grabs are your friend. But you gotta learn how to use them in the right circumstances, cause they can bite you in the butt sometimes. I hate it when I can't land Samus' grab, because it has so much lag. But if you can land it, you can follow it up with that great combo she has. In her case, the grabbing game is definitely risky.

There's no potion I can give you that makes you great at this game, but the truth is that it just takes practice. Find some friends that can train with you. Playing with unknown people online can sometimes discourage you. Also, watch competitive video tutorials on the characters you want to train with. There's tons of 'em out there.

Welcome to the forums, & good luck!

 

[_Iggy_]

Don't sweat it too much, you're probably better than you think you are.
Playing online can be difficult because even with a great connection there can and will be input lag, which WILL mess up your combos. When I'm practicing I make sure I stay away from online, even if it means I need to practice on a lvl 7 CPU just so I know I'm doing all of my combos correctly.

Approaching: this can be quite difficult especially for a character like Samus who does have any great methods of approaching.
What she DOES have though, is tools to force opponents to approach HER. Missiles and charging Charge Shots are fantastic methods of pressuring your opponent and forcing them to come to you.

Rolling: This is something that works really well online due to input lag which makes it quite difficult to punish. In reality, it's something you will get punished for quite frequently; especially against players worth their salt.
What you should work on doing is shielding and spotdodging. Shield predictable approaches and punish your opponent for using unsafe moves against your shield. If you find they're grabbing you while you shield, spot dodge the grab and punish them for whiffing
Samus has a horrid roll anyways so I rarely ever use it.

Jumping: Here's what I did to force myself to use X/Y to jump. Go to controller settings, pick a tag and turn tap jump off. This means that you can no longer jump by tapping up on the control stick. This will force you to use X/Y to jump.
Once you're used to this and you no longer jump using the control stick, feel free to turn tap jump back on because it enables you to do things like Up B out of shield with Samus.
Doing this immediately helped my game and I don't screw accidently kill myself anymore.

 

[Jebus244]

tires don exits

 

[CubicBurrito45]

tires don exits

wat

 

[JAZZ_]

_Iggy_ is right

Ive been playing as Samus quite a lot lately (metroid prime trilogy is influencing me at the moment )
And yes approaching is difficult, but volleying missiles and charging up your arm canon makes players nervous. Though I prefer to leave my charge shot alone till I can punish a recovery or an approach. the longer you hold that sucker in the more you can mess with your opponents strategy because they wont stop thinking about it. If your not used to grappling neither Ganon nor Samus is a great way to learn, being that theyre difficult to master. But if you get the hang of Samus' grapple oh boy the combo's are fun

My go to is " grapple, throw down, jump, F air" and if your opponent is above you when you land that throw in a screw attack.

another fun one is " grapple, up throw, jump or Double jump, U air or if theyre at 70 percent or more Screw attack for a KO"

 

[Jebus244]

wat

you're gonna have to Google that one.. Skill matters sure, but within your skill bracket, tiers also matter.

 

[Sacrosanct]

_Iggy_ is right

Ive been playing as Samus quite a lot lately (metroid prime trilogy is influencing me at the moment )
And yes approaching is difficult, but volleying missiles and charging up your arm canon makes players nervous. Though I prefer to leave my charge shot alone till I can punish a recovery or an approach. the longer you hold that sucker in the more you can mess with your opponents strategy because they wont stop thinking about it. If your not used to grappling neither Ganon nor Samus is a great way to learn, being that theyre difficult to master. But if you get the hang of Samus' grapple oh boy the combo's are fun

My go to is " grapple, throw down, jump, F air" and if your opponent is above you when you land that throw in a screw attack.

another fun one is " grapple, up throw, jump or Double jump, U air or if theyre at 70 percent or more Screw attack for a KO"

I know and do those combos, but my execution is very inconsistent.

At the time that I wrote this, I just felt desperate. But i'm starting to just settle with the fact that getting good isnt going to happen overnight.

When I come across someone who is obviously better than me, it's so humbling and I can't help but think "What did they do differently to get to that point? How are they so far ahead of me?" When I was a kid (i'm ancient now) I used to be able to pick up a game and be amazing at it (in my mind) i'd beat all my friends etc and you kind of hang on to that as you get older and wonder where it all went wrong but, ya know, things are so different now with respect to player pool. It's easy to be a big fish in a little pond. That pond aint so little 15 years later.


Maybe I just need to find the right people with the same competitive mindset and give myself time to get better. Being an adult slows the process, but i'm sure realistically, getting older shouldn't make me worse at games. I know the age thing is kind of a tangent, but this is kind of the conclusion ive come to after ive slept on this.

 

[JAZZ_]

I know and do those combos, but my execution is very inconsistent.

At the time that I wrote this, I just felt desperate. But i'm starting to just settle with the fact that getting good isnt going to happen overnight.

When I come across someone who is obviously better than me, it's so humbling and I can't help but think "What did they do differently to get to that point? How are they so far ahead of me?" When I was a kid (i'm ancient now) I used to be able to pick up a game and be amazing at it (in my mind) i'd beat all my friends etc and you kind of hang on to that as you get older and wonder where it all went wrong but, ya know, things are so different now with respect to player pool. It's easy to be a big fish in a little pond. That pond aint so little 15 years later.


Maybe I just need to find the right people with the same competitive mindset and give myself time to get better. Being an adult slows the process, but i'm sure realistically, getting older shouldn't make me worse at games. I know the age thing is kind of a tangent, but this is kind of the conclusion ive come to after ive slept on this.

15 years ago you couldnt pick up and play someone from across the globe. Reminds me of something my dad drilled into my head as a kid, "there is always someone better"
I was in your boat too, in my circle of friends, I'm the toughest opponent. Even meeting a few new friends, one of which thought he never lost, admits I understand the game at a different level than him. But going to a local tournament woke me up fast, at just how far behind my close knit group of friends was.
Its not really about age, its about exposure to different people with different approaches. The more people you're exposed to the higher chance you have of getting your rear end served on a platter. And for players who go to tourney after tourney they get that exposure, learn from it, and can adapt. With Smash 4's decent online mode more people can have that experience, but its a rude awakening for some who have never been exposed to players that can compete at that level of skill.

when I approach an online match I think to myself, "ok self, this guy probably plays online way more than you. He's got experience and will probably kick your balls in through your teeth. What can I learn from this?"
Each match gives you exposure to superior tactics youve never seen before, sometimes perfectly executed. You could find a local group of smashes at your level, but the people online have surpassed that, and the only way to get better is to keep playing through it.

Will it hurt the ol Ego? yeah, it hurts like the dikkens, but, exposure to that level of play consistently is how they got to that level, and you and myself can too.

I lose like 60% of my matches, or more. But I'm picking things up.

Its not about age, in fact, you'll be able to recognize their strategies quicker, but its about exposure.

 

[Sacrosanct]

15 years ago you couldnt pick up and play someone from across the globe. Reminds me of something my dad drilled into my head as a kid, "there is always someone better"
I was in your boat too, in my circle of friends, I'm the toughest opponent. Even meeting a few new friends, one of which thought he never lost, admits I understand the game at a different level than him. But going to a local tournament woke me up fast, at just how far behind my close knit group of friends was.
Its not really about age, its about exposure to different people with different approaches. The more people you're exposed to the higher chance you have of getting your rear end served on a platter. And for players who go to tourney after tourney they get that exposure, learn from it, and can adapt. With Smash 4's decent online mode more people can have that experience, but its a rude awakening for some who have never been exposed to players that can compete at that level of skill.

when I approach an online match I think to myself, "ok self, this guy probably plays online way more than you. He's got experience and will probably kick your balls in through your teeth. What can I learn from this?"
Each match gives you exposure to superior tactics youve never seen before, sometimes perfectly executed. You could find a local group of smashes at your level, but the people online have surpassed that, and the only way to get better is to keep playing through it.

Will it hurt the ol Ego? yeah, it hurts like the ****ens, but, exposure to that level of play consistently is how they got to that level, and you and myself can too.

I lose like 60% of my matches, or more. But I'm picking things up.

Its not about age, in fact, you'll be able to recognize their strategies quicker, but its about exposure.

Yeah I absolutely agree. At some point you have to put aside the pride and pay your dues.

 

[JAZZ_]

Yeah I absolutely agree. At some point you have to put aside the pride and pay your dues.

you dont even wanna know how badly my pride went down the toilet in just that local tournament. My first match of brawl, I played an employee of the barcade that the event was at, I picked fox, he chose pikachu, and seemlessly grapplechained me by doing the down throw and catching me before I launched above him, and repeated, till I got up in percentage, then just threw me away like a dirty rag, all while not even looking directly at the screen, conversing with a friend.

I didnt even know that was possible in brawl, but eh thats the past
im over that now, and with the ability to play expert players constantly im certain ill improve beyond what i already know

 

[JmacAttack]

I try and try to get better and i keep get bodied by people who I know are not good. People seem to get away with whatever they want against me and I never get away with anything.

Let me start by saying my two mainly played characters are Samus and Ganon.

I know they arent considered high tier but i am a firm believer that skill trumps tier.


I play this game a lot. For hours and hours, with the sole intention of getting better. I'm limited to online play most of the time but i have a lan adapter and the connection is good more often then not so im fine with it.

Problems I know I have:

- I have a weak approach and I don't know how to fix it.
- I roll too much. It's gotten significantly better but my spacing game is awful.
- My grab game is next to non-existant, with the characters i play I seem to get punished for trying more then im rewarded.
- My inputs are sloppy. I keep changing my control scheme to compensate. Right now I have my tilts on C-stick but i still use up to jump because i cant break the habit of doing it. I use X to jump a lot but whenever I have to recover my brain says up on stick.
-Because im used to c stick being a quick smash i often use it to do just that and end up tilting and messing up my intended play. I know this comes down to paying my dues and ingraining it in muscle memory but its been really hard to break.


My concern is that I have a big local tournament coming up and I actually feel like ive gotten worse over the past couple of days and i could tear my hair out.


Any training advice I could get (specifically for ganon because thats who i plan to play in the tournament the most) would be greatly appreciated.

Some encouraging words from NAKAT: Don't feel pressured to do good at your first big tournament. You got this. I got last place at my first two tournaments, and at my last one, I got 9th.

It sounds to me like you've just started playing the game, especially since you haven't found comfortable controls. DO go to your first tournament, because there is absolutely no substitute for Tournament experience. The more you do it, the easier it gets. However, don't leave if you don't make it very far. Instead, stay and spectate, and play friendlies. Friendlies are absolutely the best part of tournaments, ESPECIALLY for newer players. Get to the venue early to play as much as possible.

As for your issues:

- Sometimes it's not about the approach, it's about baiting a response and punishing. That's what others are doing to you if you have a weak approach. A great option for baiting with Ganondorf is to charge an upsmash in the wrong direction, because you can be holding the correct direction and immediately ftilt once the up-smash hitbox comes out. Do it in the right direction to start with, because people often don't expect it to have such a short window of endlag, and will get baited very easily, and once people do know it has a short window of endlag, they often start running right into it at full charge because they think they know the timing, but they don't. Charging it in the wrong direction makes people think they can approach it safely, but they can't. This is just one example. Baits can be done with anything if you know what kind of response your opponent will make to a particular move.

Ganondorf is all about reading, baiting, and punishing. It helps to just randomly throw out attacks from outside of their effective range, that have no chance of hitting like Forward-tilts, down-tilts, upsmash, up-air, RAR back air, and other quick attacks. This creates an imaginary "wall" that your opponents will try and breach. They will try to time their approach right when it looks like you're vulnerable, but actually aren't.

Learning to read people often takes years of practice, but don't give up. Eventually, it'll become a sixth sense.

- Rolling too much is a common problem. Spacing too. The only way to break these habits is to get more experience. They'll gradually disappear over time.

- Are you shield grabbing? Hold down shield and press Attack as soon as someone hits your shield and you'll immediately do a grab. This is by far the easiest way to grab someone. Ganon has a very short ranged grab, so it's better to use it as a defensive option, though it can work on offense if people expect you to Dash Attack.

- Sloppy inputs happen to us all. Practice, practice, practice. Don't change your controls too much, or else you'll find yourself doing the old inputs instead of the new ones constantly. Change your controls only if you need to.

- See above.

 

[Sacrosanct]

I really liked that NAKAT link

 

[PCHU]

Look up videos of other people using your mains and take notes from them (mental or physical, it's your choice); really watch them, the way they move, how they respond to their opponent, etc.
Put yourself in their shoes and follow along with their character.
If they react to something differently than you would, analyze the situation and try to figure out why.
Did it work? Did it fail? Why specifically did it fail?
You may not get a firm grasp on reading people/gimmick-driven setups, but you'll start to understand everything a lot better.
Play safe and don't commit to anything you feel won't work; it should generally either be a 50/50 toss or higher, but less is okay if you have no other options/want to be flashy and have nothing major on the line/want to experiment.

You might look at this and think that it's a lot to take in from a video -- it is, and it really isn't.
I can ramble on for days about the junk I used to do in BlazBlue, and during the match, it really didn't feel like I was doing anything complex at all, but every time I'd talk about what happened during the match, it took me a good 5 minutes to explain everything.
Just keep a positive attitude and keep working to improve; try to keep an open mind/playstyle when it comes time to adapt to a new opponent -- you don't want to stray too far from home, but it's good to develop a playstyle that can still cover multiple options with relatively few adjustments.

 

[JmacAttack]

I really liked that NAKAT link

It helped me a lot when I was getting started.

 

[dskank]

im sorry OP, but ganon was the wrong character to chose if you want to win. i think ganon was actually better in brawl than in smash 4. playing with a good char will make you better at the game faster than only playing "bad" characters. pick up diddy and using nothing but diddy for the next 300 games of smash and take what you learned about spacing and approach options and apply it to samus. and playing a strong character like diddy will make your game more confident so you will roll less. rolls=fear.

 

[JmacAttack]

im sorry OP, but ganon was the wrong character to chose if you want to win. i think ganon was actually better in brawl than in smash 4. playing with a good char will make you better at the game faster than only playing "bad" characters. pick up diddy and using nothing but diddy for the next 300 games of smash and take what you learned about spacing and approach options and apply it to samus. and playing a strong character like diddy will make your game more confident so you will roll less. rolls=fear.

lol no