Ike's Super Launcher (ISL)

[TylerX5]

Here's a video I made demonstrating it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mV3-6ffOx4&feature=youtu.be

Just a few tips when trying it out for your self

1. Go to Practice mode, the tiles are great for getting a precise idea on how high a target is sent

2. mess around with the spacing and see what happens, sometimes you'll send people higher or lower

3. Be aware that holding the sick in a direction moves Ike and might help or hinder the ISL

(Please post on here what interesting findings you get I'd love to learn more about the ISL)



If anyone has a lab partner can you check out what DI does to this and let me know. And just for fun I try having the person jump, I'm not totally sure but I think if they recover from the hitstun and jump the jump is boosted .

 

[CallMeCAM]

That is an interesting get away move. I'll have to try that out tonight.


How ever, it is very punishable if you mess up spacing or they simply sheild.

 

[TylerX5]

I'd love to see this move used in a match but it seems a bit impractical because of the startup lag and the extremely tight spacing. Although I have used the second launching hit before as a way to keep someone in the air and as a stage spike so maybe that can be used more in certain match ups and situations.

 

[Collective of Bears]

Agreeing that it's highly situational, but if a competent Ike got this technique mastered, the results could be hilarious.

 

[TylerX5]

" Mr. sir sets up the ISL tech chase on the top platform, will he-- OMG and again he ISLs Mew2King under 20% to his death to win Apex 2015"

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Hit 1 has 120/120/105/105 BKB and hit 2 has like, 100 BKB so this isn't too surprising.

Nice video tho :]

 

[TylerX5]

Hit 1 has 120/120/105/105 BKB and hit 2 has like, 100 BKB so this isn't too surprising.

Nice video tho :]

I'm still fairly new to smash Frame data knowledge stuff. Does BKB stand for Base Knockback? Also do the varying numbers represent different parts of the hitbox (hilt / lower sword / upper sword / tip) ?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Yep pretty much

 

[TylerX5]

Can you give me the values for all of the hits of Ike's up B?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

they're in the frame data thread, second post~

 

[Commander]

At first I thought this couldn't possibly be so great, then Samus died off the top at zero. I have a friend who plays Jiggs and I know a guy who plays Samus. I'm going to abuse this thing as much as I can before scrubs get it banned.

Edit: got some pics of it being done on level 1 CPUs. http://imgur.com/a/i7U1s I tried to think of the hit box as the very tip of Ragnell. Take the round part at the end, cut it in half, and then that very last tip is your hit box. Every single one of these was short hopped and never done from the ground. In the second Jiggs image, Jiggs has DI'd away and cannot get hit by the second hit, but she dies anyways. In all but the first Samus image, Samus has DI'd away and does not get hit by the second hit. I do not think that the first hit alone would kill her but it was on training. It seems the entire idea is thrown out the window when the opponent DI's in because then they are putting themselves into the rest of the move. Its such a shame. I was so excited about this but it turned out to be useless in the end.

Edit2: I think I'm going to practice this a bit more. Te spacing is hard but it is consistent, you don't need to hit low or anything, just the tip. Tyler's suggestion of using it as a tech chase and a hard read intrigues me quite a bit and it is pretty easy to get tech chases on platforms. It may have a use in the end after all. It is still very situational, but it is very cool and has enough of a pay off to make it worth looking more into. I think it will prove useless after people learn to DI in though.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Trivia: This effect is super annoying on when trying to recover. I've done this to opponents by accident when meteor cancelling and such and when they don't get sucked into the Aether, they can land, tech and punish you since Ike has considerable landing lag on when crashing onto the stage. Seeing it OHKO Samus was kind of funny, though.

 

[TylerX5]

I don't see this being a game changer it probably won't be a move that will be used frequently, but when the planets planets align I can see this move KOing someone on the top platform of Battle Field or Yoshi's

 

[metroid1117]

The ceiling for Battlefield has been raised since Demo 3.0, so it probably wouldn't be that useful for killing off the top except on Yoshi's Story or Warioware.

Anyway, this is very similar to something I found back in Demo 2.0, except the position of Aether's hitboxes have been tweaked since then.

It occurs due to Knockback Stacking. If you send the opponent flying with an attack and then hit them while they're still in hitstun, two outcomes can happen in terms of knockback (KB). If the second attack connects within 10 frames of the first attack, then the KB of the second attack will completely override the KB of the first attack. If the second attack connects after 10 frames of the first attack, then the KB vector of the second attack will add onto the KB vector of the first attack (hence the term "knockback stacking"). As Aerodrome already pointed out, the initial hits of Aether have a lot of BKB; the purpose of this is so that the first hits of Aether can cleanly link into the other hits (the spinning portion). Because of how knockback stacking works, the spinning hits of Aether (which have very little knockback) end up canceling out the knockback from the initial hits of Aether since they connected within 10 frames of the initial hit, keeping the opponent in the attack. However, if the later hits don't connect (which is what happens in ISL), then there is nothing to cancel out the huge knockback from the initial hit, causing the opponent to be launched in the air. In addition, because the initial hit has high BKB (base knockback, which is the standard knockback) and essentially zero* KBG (knockback growth, which determines how knockback increases with damage), the distance that the opponent is sent from the initial hit at 0% and 999% is the same. Since the initial hit of Aether is a launcher, the distance at which the opponent is sent is primarily based off of the opponent's gravity/"floatiness"; characters like Samus, Jigglypuff, and G&W will be sent relatively high because they are floaty, but characters like Fox, Falco, and Wolf will not be sent high because they are fastfallers (not floaty).

As a side note, Roy's Reverse Blazer from Melee (and in PM) works in a similar way. Typically, the weaker hits in the middle and end of the up+B will cancel out the knockback from the strong initial hit, but if you reverse the Blazer, then only the initial hit will connect and the opponent will be sent flying upwards.

*Aerodrome's Frame Data Thread lists the KBG for all Aether hits as 100, but states that the knockback of the attack is set, regardless of the opponent's damage.

 

[TylerX5]

Well put, but I thought gravity specifically refers to the rate at which a character goes from normal fall speed to fastfall speed, and is a separate variable from fallspeed all together?

 

[TylerX5]

And thanks man I had no idea how the second worked, but now that I know about Knockback stacking I feel so much more of the game will make sense lol

 

[CallMeCAM]

Ohhhhhhh, I've always wondered how KB worked. I never realized it was effected by that 10 frame threshold of time. I always thought it was like angles or something.

This cleared a lot up.

 

[Strong Badam]

this does not require a name. it's simply his upb functioning as intended.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

this does not require a name. it's simply his upb functioning as intended.

permission to rename wavedashing to air dodging into the ground then?

 

[TylerX5]

this does not require a name. it's simply his upb functioning as intended.

haha, I bet Sakurai feels the same way when people talk to him about Wavedashing. Seriously though this is part of how fighting games evolve. A developer has a vision for a character, makes the mechanisms for how the character can function, then people use those mechanisms in unintended ways. Street Figher's combo system was originally unintended, so was MvC's triangle jumping, and Melee's Wavedashing, etc..PM will be no different.

 

[Strong Badam]

this, however, is intentional, not unintentional. it does not need to be named as an AT. that's how you make the game less accessible to players; calling things that are fairly normal special names rather than what they actually are.

 

[TylerX5]

The name "Ike's Super Launcher" is intuitive enough that anyone can understand what it means. And at this time I wouldn't consider the move an AT unless someone uses it in an actual high skill match, until then it's just a novelty.

 

[metroid1117]

Well put, but I thought gravity specifically refers to the rate at which a character goes from normal fall speed to fastfall speed, and is a separate variable from fallspeed all together?

My bad, you're right about the distinction between gravity and falling speed. Falling speed is what plays a role in vertical knockback, moreso than gravity.

 

[SSS]

This same thing happens with a few moves in Brawl (at least). the only one I can think of is Toon Link's dsmash. The first hit sends the opponent into the second hit. It does this by sending them down and behind Tink at a harsh diagonal really fast. If you interrupt the dsmash so the first hit connects but the second doesn't (say, with a bomb), then the first hit will send them at that downwards diagonal without the second hit interrupting it. So Toon Link, if he does it right, basically has a gimp at 0 if he does it at the ledge. Unfortunately it's really hard to time the bomb hitting you in the middle of the dsmash in the middle of battle. Idk if this works in PM though because I don't know if Tink's dsmash links like in Brawl.

 

[SSS]

"Ignore me, I'm a double post."

--This message

 

[Crezyte]

So I tested this out on an array of characters to figure out who would die and where. If you do it right, the damage amounts to 8%. With just the first hit, the damage amounts to 6%. Characters that die on a lower tier platform to the 8%(which we will call the ISL+) will usually die to a top platform to the 6%. Without further ado:

Characters who cannot get killed (if not in air already) or are ungodly hard to hit with the 8%(ISL+):

Characters it works on: ,


Theoretical difficulty (IE standing still):
Easy to hit -

Difficult to hit -

Really hard to hit -

Stages:
Wario Ware (yellow platform) -

Wario Ware (red platform) -

Yoshi's Story (top PF) -

Yoshi's Story (side PFs) -

Yoshi's (no platform) -


You can use those stages to extrapolate where else each character works. From what I've seen, dies if on almost any platform except for stages with high ceilings.

Relationships i've noticed:
~
>
>>
==== (about equal)
>
>
>
>
=

 

[Crezyte]

I actually used this on my friend who plays Lucario. Simply, up-throw to a top PF (I did it on Yoshi's), double jump, and if they tech the PF use it. If they don't tech the PF, you can waveland or D-air and do Ike things.

 

[TylerX5]

Nice work man! Although why wasn't Samus listed as a character that gets killed on the stage on YS? It's the character I use to show off the move in the start on my video so we know that it KO's her.

 

[TylerX5]

Hey folks so after experimenting a bit more I found out that for some characters (like jiggly or kirby) you want to aim for their outermost hurtbox, and not necessarily their uppermost hurtbox. So for example if you wanted to KO Jiggly on FD you need to hit where her spherical body arcs horizontally (in the front that's roughly around her lower eye/ upper mouth area)

 

[Crezyte]

Nice work man! Although why wasn't Samus listed as a character that gets killed on the stage on YS? It's the character I use to show off the move in the start on my video so we know that it KO's her.

Yeah you're right my b.

Hey folks so after experimenting a bit more I found out that for some characters (like jiggly or kirby) you want to aim for their outermost hurtbox, and not necessarily their uppermost hurtbox. So for example if you wanted to KO Jiggly on FD you need to hit where her spherical body arcs horizontally (in the front that's roughly around her lower eye/ upper mouth area)

I'd call that the half super launcher. I meant that its not possible to hit with the second part to hit them even higher, but kirby and jiggs are easily killed with the first part due to their super floatiness. Everyone can be hit by the first part.

 

[TylerX5]

I'll consider the first hit to be the super launcher since it does the most knockback, the second hit is a mini launcher since it does the second most knockback (and is used a fair amount in recoveries). Both together are ISL+.