Ike's spike?

[Omega Male]

How effective is Ike's dair for edge guarding/spiking someone? Does anyone use it often? And is there a certain hitbox on the dair that needs to connect in order for it to be a spike?

 

[Y-L]

Dair spikes at the hilt and meteors at the blade I believe. I use it for edgeguarding quite a bit when I'm in the right situation where I need to go offstage (i.e. f smash or fair won't work). But to be honest the weak dair is really really good for gimping.

 

[RomanCenturionX]

Ike's dair is really usefull when dealing with tether recoveries or when your opponent is trying to recover low. Since Zairs can only be used once offstage I believe either hit will do unless it is Link or Lucas then you want to hit with the hilt because they still have the option of UpB'ing to stage. It's also a really good tool to style on people with wall jumped sweet spoted dair.

 

[Y-L]

Tethers can be used more than once actually.

 

[RomanCenturionX]

Tethers can be used more than once actually.

I heard that Zair tethers in particular could only be used once. I know ZZS and Ivy's tethers are UpB tethers so they have a different set of rules. I could be wrong though idk.

That doesn't change my advice too much just aim to hit with the hilt or blade more when dealing with tethers.

 

[Y-L]

I heard that Zair tethers in particular could only be used once. I know ZZS and Ivy's tethers are UpB tethers so they have a different set of rules. I could be wrong though idk.

That doesn't change my advice too much just aim to hit with the hilt or blade more when dealing with tethers.

Lucas can use his twice I believe. Dair on tethers is good but it only works when they tether from far away.

 

[Omega Male]

Ok thanks for the input! What is meteoring though? Not very familiar with that term.

 

[Y-L]

Ok thanks for the input! What is meteoring though? Not very familiar with that term.

Meteor = can be meteor canceled which means you can up b to cancel the downward momentum
Spike = cannot act until hit stun is over (i.e. Falco/Marth's dair)

 

[metroid1117]

Meteor = can be meteor canceled which means you can up b to cancel the downward momentum
Spike = cannot act until hit stun is over (i.e. Falco/Marth's dair)

To elaborate on the mechanics portion of things, meteor smashes are attacks that send the opponent between the angles of 260 and 280 degrees (almost straight down) while spikes are attacks that send the opponent downwards but outside the angles of 260 and 280 degrees (downward at an angle); the hitstun from a meteor smash can be interrupted with a meteor cancel but the hitstun from a spike cannot be interrupted, hence why spikes are generally more effective at gimping/KOing the opponent. [Source]

As others have stated before, Ike's DAir is a meteor smash at the tip, blade, and arm hitboxes while it's a spike at the hilt hitbox. It's a pretty effective edgeguarding tool, since you can either opt for the spike/meteor with an early DAir or weak DAir -> BAir/FAir with a late DAir. If you want to spike/meteor opponents recovering low, walk-off DAir is generally the best method because of its reach and, if performed as quickly as possible, Ike doesn't need the edge in order to recover if you miss.

 

[Omega Male]

Ah. Thanks for the clarification. Walk off literally means to walk off right? Not jump off? Stupid question I know haha.

 

[Y-L]

Yeah, just walk off.

 

[Omega Male]

Any chance someone could link a video showing how to do this? When I walk off most of the time I just SD haha.

 

[Y-L]

Any chance someone could link a video showing how to do this? When I walk off most of the time I just SD haha.

Because you're waiting too long after you walk off to do it. It's the same as walk off fair.
walk off-> c stick - >double jump - >up b

 

[metroid1117]

Any chance someone could link a video showing how to do this? When I walk off most of the time I just SD haha.

Here's an example against Lucario and one against Lucas.

 

[Y-L]

Here's an example against Lucario and one against Lucas.

Love that string against Lucas that was awesome haha.

 

[Omega Male]

Here's an example against Lucario and one against Lucas.

Awesome! Thanks again!

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Here's an example against Lucario and one against Lucas.

I think I wanted to ask you but never did - did that match lead you to any conclusions about the Lucas/Ike MU? Is it as bad as it looks?

 

[metroid1117]

I think I wanted to ask you but never did - did that match lead you to any conclusions about the Lucas/Ike MU? Is it as bad as it looks?

I surprised myself and ended up winning our next set at a different tournament 2-0; I'd still say that the punish game is roughly even and the neutral game is in Lucas' favor, but it depends on how well you can weave around his approaches (especially PK Freeze). I felt like Plasma wasn't playing as well as he did in that WF/GF set I linked earlier, but I was also playing more cautiously when edgeguarding him and utilizing more QD attack.

 

[grandpappy]

Any chance someone could link a video showing how to do this? When I walk off most of the time I just SD haha.

On top of what other people said; make sure you don't fast fall. I used to kill myself like that a lot haha! I'd get so excited about getting the edgeguard that I'd push the control stick down to make sure my hitboxes got to them. Not worth it man

 

[Y-L]

Sometimes on the last stock though it's fun to to an ultra deep fast fall dair spike though

 

[grandpappy]

As long as you're not sitting on last stock too and die first. That would be a sad story haha

#NORAGRETS

 

[Jedisupersonic]

As long as you're not sitting on last stock too and die first. That would be a sad story haha

#NORAGRETS

I've done this before saaad day.

Ikes dair is so fun though. Gosh his whole air game is a blast with the faster movement allowed by PM

 

[Omega Male]

On top of what other people said; make sure you don't fast fall. I used to kill myself like that a lot haha! I'd get so excited about getting the edgeguard that I'd push the control stick down to make sure my hitboxes got to them. Not worth it man

I do this soo much Q_Q

 

[Y-L]

I do this soo much Q_Q

You should be doing that, it should just be analog horizontal->c down, don't try to do it with A.

 

[Otomy]

Ike has 4 spikes , D-Tilt from above, neutral b at the blades tip , D-Air, and Ather.

 

[metroid1117]

Ike has 4 spikes , D-Tilt from above, neutral b at the blades tip , D-Air, and Ather.

Technically, he has 4 meteor smashes (the moves you mention above) and one spike (hilt hitbox on DAir).

 

[Commander]

Technically, he has 4 meteor smashes (the moves you mention above) and one spike (hilt hitbox on DAir).

Isn't dtilt also a spike at the hilt?

 

[Goobgoyle]

Isn't dtilt also a spike at the hilt?

Yes, I was experimenting with that when I found out that Link's Dtilt is a spike at the... Hilt lol

 

[metroid1117]

Isn't dtilt also a spike at the hilt?

I don't think it is, but I'm also not 100% sure either. I know it wasn't in 2.5b and I don't think it's been changed since then.