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Ike's recovery
- Thread starter e105beta
- Start date
Zareidriel
zuh-RAY-dree-ole
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- Zareidriei
Nope, he's helpless.
Falconv1.0
Smash Master
Which is why his recovery is iffy. His vertical recovery is epic win. His horizontal recovery though, is garbage.
Kirk
Smash Champion
I wouldn't go quite as far to say its garbage...it gives you another option to recover, depending on the situation of course. It's also a much faster means of getting back to the stage than waiting to drop down and Aether up. Again, situational, but its good for Ike to have options to help is recovery out a bit.
KosukeKGA
Smash Champion
Technically you could jump out in front of an Ike who is Quick Draw recovering and possibly gimp kill him over the edge. =[
Toshen
Smash Apprentice
Does ike still enter a free fall state if he hits somebody with the quick draw airborne? Still not sure about this subject :/
Betaz
Smash Ace
what i dont get though is why would you WANT to get hit with a quickdraw midair >.>
I mean with Ike's power...just doesnt seem like a good idea...unless you know you can get away with it...or does the quickdraw come out even if it hits someone airdodging?
I mean with Ike's power...just doesnt seem like a good idea...unless you know you can get away with it...or does the quickdraw come out even if it hits someone airdodging?
Zareidriel
zuh-RAY-dree-ole
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- Zareidriei
Yeah, if he hits someone, he also goes into helpless mode/freefall, though they still get the damage and stuff. Which means you'll have to be tricky about when you let the Quick Draw go. If you're going for horizontal recovery, mix it up between going for the edge and going above the edge.
Fizz-sama
Smash Ace
It comes to either you racking up more damage, and possibly a KO at high percents, or jumping in his way to take a stock from him. The latter, of course, is better. (But not cooler, ;-
.Toshen
Smash Apprentice
Well i'm assuming when Ike connects the Quick Draw in midair he stops moving forward, and since he enters a free fall after this, you can let it hit you on purpose so Ike won't make it back to the stage, unless the move is fully charged it won't kill you before 50-60% damage
Yep, my friend figured out the gimp kill after a while. If your opponent is at low damage and you're trying to recover using Quick Draw, it's VERY easy to kill you by simply jumping in front of your path. Even if they have to jump far away, your auto-hit will knock them safely back over the stage while you fall helplessly to your death.
On the other hand, if somebody hits you lightly out of your Quick Draw, you can follow it up with another or go into Aether, depending on whether you've been knocked backwards or downwards.
Also, remember to beware of players good at spamming projectiles with interrupting properties; they can easily gimp any inattentive Ike player (sometimes even if the player's paying good attention). I've had my share of gimp deaths against Falco, Wolf and Diddy before I got used to it.
If you're knocked up and away at a high angle, you can always try falling a while, using your double jump if you still have it, and Aether-ing to barely grab the ledge. It may seem a bit more clunky than Quick Draw-ing to save yourself, but it's also better at preventing you from being gimped.
On the other hand, if somebody hits you lightly out of your Quick Draw, you can follow it up with another or go into Aether, depending on whether you've been knocked backwards or downwards.
Also, remember to beware of players good at spamming projectiles with interrupting properties; they can easily gimp any inattentive Ike player (sometimes even if the player's paying good attention). I've had my share of gimp deaths against Falco, Wolf and Diddy before I got used to it.
If you're knocked up and away at a high angle, you can always try falling a while, using your double jump if you still have it, and Aether-ing to barely grab the ledge. It may seem a bit more clunky than Quick Draw-ing to save yourself, but it's also better at preventing you from being gimped.
Sept... You Know... Better.
e105beta
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2007
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- 256
Your second comment will probably happen a lot in the heat of battle because people want to just rush out and attack their opponents.
Your fourth strategy is what I tried to do the most, but in all truth, all recovers are situational.
Falconv1.0
Smash Master
More play time with Ike, I take back that his horizontal recovery is garbz, but he gets gimped as bad as Pit.
>_> I have a feeling in the future, we'll look back at this topic, and laugh at me fore being terribly wrong. I just see it coming.
>_> I have a feeling in the future, we'll look back at this topic, and laugh at me fore being terribly wrong. I just see it coming.
e105beta
Smash Journeyman
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Some characters just get gimped easily. Mario gimps everyone with cape.
Falconv1.0
Smash Master
Eh, Mario and his gimping ability. It's practically an exploit. XD
Kirk, are there any reasonable options to defend yourself against gimping?
Kirk, are there any reasonable options to defend yourself against gimping?
KosukeKGA
Smash Champion
Don't get hit.
Oh, you can take hits alright... but it's still better to do your best to avoid getting damaged too much. I suppose one of the reasonings for his not-so-amazing recovery is that he's hard to throw off in the first place... but then again, that's just a guess.
Kirk
Smash Champion
That pretty much sums it up
I mean, if you are afraid of getting gimped, the easiest solution is to drop low and Aether upwards. It's relatively safe to do so. If you are already charging the QD in air, you have the option to release it above the stage. But if you're opponent is smart, sometimes it's not really an option to do that. There's not much else you can do....or maybe I'm just forgetting atm lol.
Hellbeing
Smash Journeyman
Kirk has used side b to his advantage many many times. And it looks really really good. By the looks of it, its a LOT better than fox/falco side b recovery-wise, so dont be too quick tojump to conclusions.
SOPF
Smash Apprentice
There's a big difference between Ike's side b and fox/falco's and that's the fact that, with ike, you attack upon contact with someone leaving you helpless whereas, with the spacies, you'll just run right through your opponent. So, though Ike's side b grants more horizontal, it is much more gimpable.
As to the topic at hand, ike's recovery has many flaws and it will take some insight into the thoughts of your opponent to over come said drawbacks. Catching your opponent off guard is key.
As to the topic at hand, ike's recovery has many flaws and it will take some insight into the thoughts of your opponent to over come said drawbacks. Catching your opponent off guard is key.
VersatileBJN
Smash Ace
http://youtube.com/watch?v=lvZl7VAaxlw
As a future Ike main along with Marth, this video frightens me. Ike's recovery is just SO bad.
http://youtube.com/profile_videos?p=r&user=Na7han&page=2
Check out all the videos with that guy, Chase. He doesn't seem very good, but I'm not really concerned about that. Just watch. Anyimte he's knocked off the stage by Chillin at all it's over.
I didn't even know that Aether could be edge hugged without worry of being knocked off. I was under the impression Ike would hit and replace the ledge hugger if aether if done. I was wrong.
You add the fact that Ike's insane damage really isn't that insane with DI and air dodged DIng, and Ike is looking seriously underwhelming.
What you think Kirk?
As a future Ike main along with Marth, this video frightens me. Ike's recovery is just SO bad.
http://youtube.com/profile_videos?p=r&user=Na7han&page=2
Check out all the videos with that guy, Chase. He doesn't seem very good, but I'm not really concerned about that. Just watch. Anyimte he's knocked off the stage by Chillin at all it's over.
I didn't even know that Aether could be edge hugged without worry of being knocked off. I was under the impression Ike would hit and replace the ledge hugger if aether if done. I was wrong.
You add the fact that Ike's insane damage really isn't that insane with DI and air dodged DIng, and Ike is looking seriously underwhelming.
What you think Kirk?
Falconv1.0
Smash Master
I've noted multiple times that the guy playing Ike just plain sucks, thus making this little vid a bad representation. >_>
Kirk
Smash Champion
Yeah, for one, that guy didn't seem all that great, he could have avoided some of the things that made him ultimately fall.
As for Aether, its very difficult to guard against. You would have to get on the ledge right before the sword goes up, and time your invincibility frames just right so that you get all of them while hanging on the ledge, and while coming back onto the stage. In that one video, Ike was a bit away from the ledge also, dunno if he would have hit squirtle to begin with. Overall its not too much concern, but nonetheless it can be done.
Just a note on Quick Draw also, it CAN be guarded against with and edgehog, but you have to have your invincibility frames up, as in, you need to grab the ledge just before Ike gets there. If you wait on the ledge, and roll up or w/e, Ike can probably still grab on, thanks to the new edge mechanics. If they just stay on there, they get hit, and Ike grabs the ledge, like you say.
Ike needs to predict his opponent. The majority of his attacks are just too slow otherwise. Notice a trend of airdodges from your opponent? Wait next time and catch them when they are vulnerable. Mindgames and prediction are VERY necessary for Ike. To all other chars to, but especially Ike.
Hope that helps :D
e105beta
Smash Journeyman
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Only comment on characters when the video has GOOD players. He kinda sucked.
Ike's damage IS insane though. Forward smash kills at 0-1,000,000%
Aether is ridiculously difficult to edgehog, but there are a few frames within it that aren't SAF- meaning your opponent CAN actually start a ledge tug-of-war if you're trying to use it to recover and they figure out the moments that allow them to knock you back off (it's happened to me once before)... and unlike other characters and their auto-ledge-grab-happy recovery moves, Aether doesn't seem to like sweet-spotting the ledge too much: You'll have to be a bit more careful in the spacing.
Ike can play well against quicker characters in duels by simply limiting his moveset to the ones with less lag (Jab Combo, Neutral/Back/Up Aerials, Up Tilt) to rack up damage, but it's being skillful with the laggier moves that takes premeditation. Even though moves such as the Down Smash and Side B come out quite well, missing often puts Ike in a position where he could be punished hard... but I haven't found it difficult by simply sticking to his safer moves and racking up the damage on lighter/faster characters before usually getting in a single good kill move to end it.
Miller
Smash Lord
TBH, Ikes Aether is a good recovery if hes below the stage because of the vertical recovery. Quick draw is good when hes higher or level with the stage because he has great horizontal recovery. It just depends on the situation with Ike.
Agreed
I completely agree. I used Ike in a brawl tourney in February. By alternating which methos of recovery I used based on the situation, I never died because of recovery.