Ike vs Fox

[SparkingZero]

I kept being told gets alot of free smashes on Fox's/Space animals, at what % range can I get an F-smash and what DI do I go for? Ive been having Fox trouble lately and I can surely rack damage up, but having a free fsmash would obviously help into edge guarding.

 

[Y-L]

I kept being told gets alot of free smashes on Fox's/Space animals, at what % range can I get an F-smash and what DI do I go for? Ive been having Fox trouble lately and I can surely rack damage up, but having a free fsmash would obviously help into edge guarding.

You can chaingrab fox until like 55 and get a free f smash if they don't di away.

 

[SparkingZero]

Alright that makes sense but I feel like most Foxs will DI away anyway? Not to much there'll be a high chance of a platform being there. So I can I can just up grab and punish for a get up read?

 

[Y-L]

Alright that makes sense but I feel like most Foxs will DI away anyway? Not to much there'll be a high chance of a platform being there. So I can I can just up grab and punish for a get up read?

A lot of foxes try to di backwards to get out of the chaingrab so they don't see the fsmash coming. I should have specified they need to di foward and away.
If there's a platform above Ike it's great to throw them up there and then tech chase them with a usmash below the platform. That setup works great with more than just a grab nair sets up well in certain situations to qd->usmash tech chase if they land on a platform or on stage.
Again it's by no means guaranteed and you shouldn't go for it liberally. Use it as a mix up and if he knows what you're doing the first time I wouldn't try it again.

 

[lordhelmet]

I have quite a bit of experience and some videos of how I deal with Fox.

Uthrow regrabs reliably until 40%. There seems to be a window where he can escape. Instead of regrabbing, I follow his DI and hit with nair/bair/utilt. Fox falls fast enough to where you can combo him to high % and finish with a strong bair/fair. You then have an edgeguard situation.

The match-up seems to boil down to staying close to Fox, outranging his limbs while staying close enough to not take laser damage.

I wouldn't go for foward smash or up smash setups.

 

[SparkingZero]

Alright, understanding all of that, then where would you guys take Fox players?

 

[King of Hoboz]

I'm still trying to figure that one out myself honestly. I don't play enough good Foxes, and my encounters ranged from outright bodied or too easy. I say a small stage just so you don't give Fox the room to try to DD away and bait you- also, small stages make kills from a grab happen more.

Lordy probably has a better suggestion.

 

[SparkingZero]

@ King of Hoboz Yeah thanks but Fox's U-smash scares the **** out of me. But maybe i should start my neutrals at smaller stages like FOD?

 

[lordhelmet]

FD, SV, Greenhill are our obvious CPs. Castle if it's legal (amazing Ike stage). Dreamland and Stadium are good as well.

I think our worst stages are Skyloft, Island, Battlefield, and Warioware. I like the smaller platforms where Ike's sword can cover a larger percentage of their rolling room.

Dreamland, Stadium 2, or Fountain is usually what you will strike to (some Foxes like the platform layout of Dreamland). I like Fountain over Story because of the less-intrusive platforms and superior recovery options.

It's player preference as Ike really doesn't have bad stages. I like the big open stages and stages with small platforms (Fountain, Lylat). I ban Island and Skyloft because of the lower ceiling and the big platforms. Stadium 2 has a low ceiling but has great platforms for Ike, this is generally where my game 1 starts every set.

I could be wrong and small stages could be the way to go. It's easier to 0-death Fox on these stages, but I think Fox benefits more because of early up airs and up smashes. Ike has a lot more KO setups at high %'s and does a better job of surviving overall which is why I pick big stages. Additionally, gimps on big stages affect the match a lot more than on small stages. Keep this in mind as both characters can gimp each other pretty hard - this depends on which player is the better gimper.

Traditionally, sword characters like smaller stages for stage control and lack of mobility. Ike isn't the most mobile either, but quick draw gives us some reason to pick stages with room to run.

 

[Y-L]

Against Fox I like FD for chaingrabbing and QD movement, PS2 is good too. Dreamland is always good cause of high ceiling. Greenhill is a good Ike stage against every character. As for small stages I like wario ware and battlefield but dislike yoshi's because of the low floor and small ceiling.

When I pick a stage against Fox i'll generally look for a high ceiling and either a good recovery stage for Ike or small horizontal blastzone for fast kills.

 

[SparkingZero]

Yeah I agree with the both of you, as far as that. Another thing I noticed with Foxes is they like to basically buffer shine. I feel like I should just block for an extended amount of time then punish, but then I get up grabbed. So maybe I should just N air out of shield backwards?

 

[Y-L]

Yeah I agree with the both of you, as far as that. Another thing I noticed with Foxes is they like to basically buffer shine. I feel like I should just block for an extended amount of time then punish, but then I get up grabbed. So maybe I should just N air out of shield backwards?

Are you talking about getting drillshined? If so you have to respect that and try to get out of there with a roll or WD OoS because you'll get hit first if you try to attack back.

 

[SparkingZero]

Are you talking about getting drillshined? If so you have to respect that and try to get out of there with a roll or WD OoS because you'll get hit first if you try to attack back.

Yes, but if I roll I feel that'll be a free up smash for the fox

 

[Y-L]

Yes, but if I roll I feel that'll be a free up smash for the fox

True if he reads your roll that could happen albeit Ike has an above average roll. He doesn't have any real OoS options because upb OoS and usmash OoS suck and his aerials (besides bair but weird hitbox wont make that viable against fox) are too slow to use OoS. So basically you don't want to put put in your shield with Ike. In almost all shield situations I tend to WD OoS to alleviate pressure. Using an aerial OoS is just not an option against Fox and shine connects before grab so there's not much you can do. You have to play aggressive, space well, and don't give Fox openings to punish. I generally think the MU is pretty even cause Ike's tools for edgeguarding fox along with his chaingrab/juggles on him are very useful. Fox should be dead as soon as he's offstage.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Fox match-up boils down to how often you drop your edgeguards.

While I agree with my fellow Lord, I want to say that Yoshi's Island is underrated for the Fox/Ike MU. Throwing and regrabbing Fox on the upper platform can let you continue the CG -> aerial combo and YI is another stage with walls to aid recovery. It's one I like and feel pretty comfortable on (getting shine spiked sucks, Ike in particular is very susceptible to it. Knocks us right into our no recovery zone and we can die below 10% like this.)

 

[NWRL]

As far as stages go against a Fox, I try to go for FD, Green Hill or WW. Sometimes Lylat.

 

[SparkingZero]

I understand, thanks alot you guys. It seems like we all have the same idea with dealing with this guy.

 

[RomanCenturionX]

Alright, understanding all of that, then where would you guys take Fox players?

My list really depends on whether you use apex rules or not but my favorite places to take Fox would be Fountain, YI, YS, WW, and Lylat or somewhere relatively flat like FD and GHZ. I try to avoid the PS', Skyloft, Smashville, and Skyworld because they either give Fox more avenues for mix-ups in his recovery (Smashville and Skyworld) or their incredibly easy to be killed of the top on (PS1, PS2, and Skyloft). If Dracula's is legal that is another option for you to use as the vertical base and large boundaries on Dracula's help Ike more than it hinders him.

Unfortunately, I am in Fox and Falco country over in NJ so I feel your pain with this matchup. What this matchup comes down to is exactly what Lordling said, you have to finish his stocks and capitalize on his mistakes.