Ike match-up thread (The kid from Southpark)

[Berserker.]

vs

Discuss

 

[Oblivion129]

At first it felt like Shulk would have the advantage because of range, but after learning more about the MU I can feel it's pretty even. I've been on both ends of the MU since I use both characters.
Ike has a superior jab and grab game. He can rack up damage nicely with combos as well. Shulk can have more mobility, though, and more range on most moves.

Spacing is key, as Shulk would want to be outside of Ike's jab range and Ike would want Shulk to be inside his jab range. Ike's jab is 1 frame faster and has more range.
Shulk can get a lot of mobility with Speed, though, so he can control space better, but most of Ike's moves are still slightly faster. Ike will have to adapt to the arts just like Shulk would (like in pretty much all Shulk MUs).

Here's some frame data: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...Owju2Vq5a4irDPLvwfxuOKVGxk/edit#gid=440614687

 

[GhostUrsa]

I feel that the MU is fairly even as well, though a really good Shulk may pull the odds in their favor to a 55/45 due to great use of their Monado Arts. Shulk's smashes have superior reach, which makes baiting an aggressive Ike easy. Disadvantage to his Smashes is that they have no diagonal reach, so Ike's rising f-air or any aerial options can beat them out. In the air, Shulk's n-air seems to beat out most of Ike's attack options, but Ike's f-air seems to have much better reach. (Though Shulk's F-air has more diagonal range here) I almost never challenge Shulk's d-air due to it always out-ranging my u-air unless I can somehow slip beside him for a f-air or b-air. Talking about b-air, Ike's is faster but Shulk has better range (though the delayed start makes it harder to use closer to the ground from a short hop from what I've seen.)

As for specials, Air Slash suffers the same limitation of Aether which is that it is extremely easy to gimp via Counter. The second slash of the attack does allow for better anti-edgeguarding options against Eruption, which is Ike's go-to kill move against low recoveries. A good Ike will watch how deep you are going in order to anticipate which option to go for. Speaking of counters, I do believe Shulk has one of the best in the game with it's range. (Better even than Lucario or Greninja as I can trick them into flying off stage or into a compromising situation, which is hard to do for Shulk unless he's airborne.) It makes returning to stage for Ike dangerous since I don't know when you'll attempt to intercept my Quick Draw or Aether with Vision and take me out. On the ground, the ending lag is something I'll try to abuse with auto-canceling bait attacks (performing a rising f-air just out of range) or with empty short hops into a grab.

Back Slash is one of the few moves Shulk has that is dangerous to use against Ike, much like Quick Draw is for us against Shulk. The wind-up begs for an easy punish, which requires a guaranteed hit to not get your teeth kicked in. I don't know if Back Slash has any alternative uses, like QD does (We can use it from short hop height to slide close to a target and still have our neutral options due to the auto-cancel.) which makes using it only for hard reads against Ike since you don't want that countered.

I bring up my experience fighting against Shulks with the Arts last because in a way it's both his blessing and curse. I find the Shulk players that give me the most trouble with the Arts are the ones that find the one or two arts that fit their playstyle the most and abuse them compared to the ones that are always switching them up trying to adapt to what I'm throwing at them. It appears that juggling all the arts during a match becomes too distracting, as I've been able to mix-up my attacks a little and watch a panicked Shulk search the arts for the right change instead of focusing on what my follow-up was. Any advice I'd have for newer Shulks against a character that is a Read heavy player is to "Find what works for you and stick with it." There will always be exceptions to use when you need a change, as I had an aggressive Shulk switch to Jump and Shield when we both were on the last stock and he had a harder % in an attempt to out tank my blows, but keeping those changes to exceptions will help make sure that you are unpredictable when you need to be.

 

[erico9001]

At first it felt like Shulk would have the advantage because of range, but after learning more about the MU I can feel it's pretty even. I've been on both ends of the MU since I use both characters.
Ike has a superior jab and grab game. He can rack up damage nicely with combos as well. Shulk can have more mobility, though, and more range on most moves.

Spacing is key, as Shulk would want to be outside of Ike's jab range and Ike would want Shulk to be inside his jab range. Ike's jab is 1 frame faster and has more range.
Shulk can get a lot of mobility with Speed, though, so he can control space better, but most of Ike's moves are still slightly faster. Ike will have to adapt to the arts just like Shulk would (like in pretty much all Shulk MUs).

Here's some frame data: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...Owju2Vq5a4irDPLvwfxuOKVGxk/edit#gid=440614687

Ike's jab is 1 frame faster, and I actually tested this out too . Uhh, if they are a certain distance from each other, then the jabs will cancel each other, but that point is actually beyond when either Shulk or Ike would be in range to hit one another with it (Shulk's jab does actually out-range Ike's, but that information has no use). As always, Shulk should maintain distance from Ike.

Another issue for Shulk is the speed of Ike's D-tilt - frame 7. The only attacking moves this can be contested by are Vision and Jab, but it out-ranges Jab. However, if we are to translate Ike's D-tilt into terms of Shulk's spacing...

Maximum Horizontal Range​

Note: All of Shulk's moves are listed from farthest to shortest. I used a custom stage I created to help assist with this, & used the Crate item to better determine the results. Not even Wii Fit Trainer was the greatest example to use the first time for this.

Note: I only measured the range of Shulk's moves by the farthest they could reach aka the Beam aka the Sourspot in most cases (Exceptions like NAir are loved & appreciated, because NAir, you break the B & B "rule"<3. I also did not test move techniques like Jump Canceled Vision).

1. Back Slash Charge sliding hit-box as Shulk with any Art excluding all 3 Speed Arts
2. Back Slash Charge sliding hit-box as Speed Shulk / DSpeed Shulk / HSpeed Shulk
3. Dash Vision counterattack (This basically looks like a disjointed Tipper hit-box, but it's the sourspot)
4. Advancing Air Slash 2nd hit
5. Power Vision counterattack
6. Vision counterattack
7. Back Slash landing Tipper hit
8. Instant Dash Attack as Speed Shulk
9. Instant Dash attack as Vanilla Shulk / Jump Shulk / Buster Shulk / Smash Shulk
10. Instant Dash Attack as Shield Shulk
11. Back Slash Leap landing Tipper hit
12. Forwarded Dash Vision counterattack
13. Air Slash 2nd hit
14. FSmash 2nd hit without angling
15. Full Jab Combo (Rapidly tapping A)
16. FSmash 2nd hit angled downward & upward
17. BAir from behind
18. Forwarded Vision counterattack
19. Forwarded Power Vision counterattack
20. FThrow collateral 3% hit
21. Air Slash grounded 1st hit AND Advancing Air Slash grounded 1st hit
22. DSmash 3rd hit from the front (It's actually the 5th hit of DSmash)
23. DTilt
24. FSmash 1st hit angled upward
25. FAir
26. FSmash 1st hit without angling
27. FTilt
28. FSmash 1st hit angled downward
29. DSmash 2nd hit from the back (it's actually the 4th hit of DSmash)
30. DSmash 1st hit from the back (it's actually the 2nd hit of DSmash)
31. DSmash 1st hit from the front
32. DSmash 2nd hit from the front (it's actually the 3rd hit of DSmash)
33. Mighty Air Slash 2nd hit
34. Jab-1 > Jab-2
35. Ledge Attack from the ledge
36. NAir from the front
37. BThrow collateral 3% hit from behind
    
38. Mighty Air Slash grounded 1st hit
39. Jab-1
40. NAir from behind
41. UTilt
42. USmash Front Ground-Hitting knock-up
43. BAir front-facing hit
44. Standing Grab
45. USmash Back Ground-Hitting knock-up
46. DAir
47. UAir

It has just about the same range as mighty air slash's first hit, and is less than F-tilt. Therefore, we have a lot of moves that out-range it.

Ike's Bair - also frame 7 - is another issue for Shulk if in the air. Vision outspeeds it in the air, and that is it (besides air dodge). However, I tested the range of Ike's Bair, and it is actually a little bit worse than Mighty Air Slash. This also goes for his Fair, which is frame 13, and does practically hit Shulk before Shulk's Fair (I tested that too :D). While Shulk's Nair is also frame 13, it is not a solution to Ike's Fair, because Nair starts from behind Shulk and takes some frames to go in front of him. The only solution Shulk has to Ike's Fair is either outspacing it (testing... it has about the same range as mighty air slash - probably very slightly better) using Air Slash (frame 10), or having a Vision (may whiff even if activated, but not if positioned right).

Another thing: as Shulk, be careful with Monado Buster. It's always something to keep in mind that characters with counters can abuse Monado Buster's additional damage against you if you are predictable with your attacks. So, if using Buster, don't forget about your grabs! Speaking of grabs, Ike is not very susceptible to our Buster D-throw combos. In training mode, the only ones that work are Buster D-throw -> Air Slash from 0-20% and Buster D-throw -> D-tilt from 0-14%. Usually, heavies are pretty susceptible, but not Ike.

Overall, this is what I think Shulk's strategy should look like:
-out-spacing/not getting too close
-avoiding aerial confrontations (unless out-spacing or out-speeding with vision or air slash)
-using whatever monado art fits playstyle, but being mindful of counter if using buster
-Keeping in mind Shulk's amazing U-tilt if Ike decides to go into the air for Fair or Bair while Shulk is still grounded.

As for specials, Air Slash suffers the same limitation of Aether which is that it is extremely easy to gimp via Counter. (...) Speaking of counters, I do believe Shulk has one of the best in the game with it's range. (Better even than Lucario or Greninja as I can trick them into flying off stage or into a compromising situation, which is hard to do for Shulk unless he's airborne.) It makes returning to stage for Ike dangerous since I don't know when you'll attempt to intercept my Quick Draw or Aether with Vision and take me out.

I don't think Ike's Aether can be countered with grounded Vision, unless there's something I'm missing here. If you counter the initial throw of the sword, Ike won't come upwards until after Vision's hitbox is gone. To me, it seems the only way it is possible for Shulk to counter Ike's aether is if Shulk jumps above the spot where the Ike's sword is spinning (after Ike used up B), uses counter, and falls down onto the spinning sword with the counter. Then, Ike is killed or gimped when he does his leap up to the sword.

 

[TWILTHERO]

I play Ike on the side, and I feel overall, I think it's a fairly even MU, but I think Shulk has maybe a slight advantage if I had to give it someone because of his Monado Arts.

It's generally not a smart idea to get up close to Ike since his jab is better than Shulk's. Monado Speed is your best friend here as it's key for Shulk to maintain the advantage here. Shulk's BAir is REALLY good here, with how much range it has and safe it can be with MALLC. Ike doesn't really have much fast "get off me" attacks (maybe his BAir?), so it's important for Shulk to not let up on his offense. Buster is still good for doing it's regular thing of causing shield pressure/damage, but it's very very important for Shulk to not misspace any aerials. Don't be predictable when fighting an Ike because his punishes WILL hurt (especially off a shield grab). However, Shulk can also punish Ike because he generally has more range than him (beware of his FAir though); Smash Attacks will be useful here. I actually avoid using Monado Smash in this fight (unless you're at a very low percentage) because all it does is make Ike all the more dangerous with his KO moves. Instead, I'd say focus on edgeguarding Ike with Monado Jump or just try to KO him regularly.

It's a pain for Shulk to try and edgeguard Ike while he's below the stage because of Aether's armor/spinning blade unless Shulk reads it properly. That's why it's better to come after Ike while he's attempting to recover with Quick Draw. Don't have too much say that hasn't been said already. Both characters are actually kind of similar and it's a pretty fun matchup IMO, but I think the versatility with the Monado Arts should give Shulk a slight edge. If customs are on, beware of Tempest because it can give an easy way to gimp Shulk (and his recovery already isn't really that great without Jump), but you get a bigger punish out of the best counter in the game with Power Vision.

 

[GhostUrsa]

I don't think Ike's Aether can be countered with grounded Vision, unless there's something I'm missing here. If you counter the initial throw of the sword, Ike won't come upwards until after Vision's hitbox is gone. To me, it seems the only way it is possible for Shulk to counter Ike's aether is if Shulk jumps above the spot where the Ike's sword is spinning (after Ike used up B), uses counter, and falls down onto the spinning sword with the counter. Then, Ike is killed or gimped when he does his leap up to the sword.

Normally you'd be right, but I've had Shulk's counter hit on Stages where Aether can Shark, as the sword is thrown through the stage behind Shulk (assuming he's at the edge and too close to be hit by the Shark) and then moves towards the edge when Ike flies up to snap the ledge. The sword intercepts the vision right as Ike is high enough to Counter, and with the step back Shulk makes before the counter actually connects he can even hit Ike if the Vision if fired backwards (I've used Sharking with Aether on Marth/Lucina before to have their Counter fire backwards and allow me to safely get the ledge, which is harder to do with Shulk). You won't see Ike hit with this often because most good Ike players will avoid Sharking and go for a deep recovery/ ledge snap with Aether against characters with a Counter that has range.

For the record, I've only seen one Shulk player pull this off but it has happened so I figured I'd let you know about the ability to upset. I know I took it to heart.

Ike doesn't really have much fast "get off me" attacks (maybe his BAir?), so it's important for Shulk to not let up on his offense.

In the air, Ike will rely on n-air and fast falling n-airs for spacing in a rush while on the ground his Jab and d-tilt is what is designed to keep rushdown opponents at bay. N-air may not have the range of some of Shulk's moves, but it covers a whopping 230-ish degrees around him and comes out fast enough with Fast Falling that he can using it retreating and followup with a jab combo or other moves. Also, d-tilt has great speed and range that also pops up a target for aerial followup. This allows Ike to turn the tables on his would-be 'grappler' and make them sting.

 

[Oblivion129]

Oh, I didn't mention customs in my post.
Custom Ike will normally have Close Combat instead of Quick Draw (Custom side-B) which is safer because it goes through the opponent even if shielded.
Then there's Paralyzing counter which is the custom counter. It stuns the opponent a bit and can lead to Usmash at higher percent or tilt KOs at lower percents.
The neutral B is normally for edge guarding but since Shulk's UpB has so much range it can hit Ike out of it (unless Ike charges it enough to have super armor). It's normally something that won't be used in this MU.
Aether wave is a custom UpB which works similarly to Kirby's UpB. It creates a shockwave which is like a projectile. It can force Shulk to approach and change to Jump or Speed.

That's why it's better to come after Ike while he's attempting to recover with Quick Draw.

I've actually landed a few KOs on Shulk because they were trying to challenge the Quick Draw. I recommend punishing the landing of it rather than the QD itself since it can KO at around 130%.

 

[GhostUrsa]

I've actually landed a few KOs on Shulk because they were trying to challenge the Quick Draw. I recommend punishing the landing of it rather than the QD itself since it can KO at around 130%.

I have too, though I'd recommend more keeping Shulk's decision random. A good Ike will use the auto-cancelling off a QD to his advantage to keep Shulk from being able to chase him down, so there will be a bit of risk-reward intercepting him in either situation.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Without customs: 50-50 or 45-55 Shulk's advantage. Ike is slightly faster in attack speed, slightly more consistent access to combos, and more consistent over all, Shulk has slightly more range and can have an advantage over Ike in one particular area at a time. Be aware that any Art that lowers Shulk's knockback resistance is a massive gamble because well, its Ike.

With customs: Looking at more 55-45 or 60-40 Ike's Advantage from what I know. Probably the later. CQC lets us speed around more and is fairly safe, Tempest is an amazing edgeguard option/recovery booster, both Aether Wave and Aether Drive are safer recovery methods over regular Aether in this MU. Shulk can have better Arts/Long lasting Arts to either push his timed advantage further or make it last longer. Power Vision is Power Vision. Have to admit I'm not sure what Side B or Up B options Shulk would go for.

General info to note: a properly spaced Nair is only -4 on shield from Ike. Add in shield pushing, and unless Shulk was already in Speed Art he's not going to be able to punish it I feel. Bair is similar in that its -6 or -7, but has even stronger shield push.

Fair and Bair both completely auto-cancel. Nair has rather minimal landing lag. Dtilt can be used by Ike to cover his landing and punish any attempt to punish his landing.

Ike can combo Uthrow into Uair at kill percents (unless Shulk is in Shield Art because he suddenly puts a sherman tank on his back). But at that point if we've grabbed Shulk and happen to be near the ledge, both Fthrow and Bthrow add very little to vertical height and Shulk will drop like a rock into a rather bad position.

From my crappy, knowledge I wouldn't heavily rely on, experience from online matches: Shulk may want to stick with Speed Art a lot against Ike. Gives him more options for punishing and getting in past Ike's range.

Both characters have a crappy time getting past the other's juggles/landing traps.

 

[erico9001]

Have to admit I'm not sure what Side B or Up B options Shulk would go for.

ehh.. probably power vision for early kills. Any of the custom arts could be used. I could see decisive arts being pretty good, though, because there doesn't seem to be real need for switching arts. I'm also curious about how Ike handles decisive Sheild Shulk. For recovery, either advancing air slash or regular air slash. Both have their merits. I do not think Mighty Air Slash would be very good here; it would probably make it easy for Ike to stage spike Shulk with a Bair. Back Slash Leap might be better than normal Back Slash, because the extra range of normal back slash isn't really useful here. However, that would not make a big difference. Shulk's customs make a big difference to how he is played, but nothing really stands out to me for them in this MU.

 

[Berserker.]

I feel like this is even. Could be Shulk's slight advantage if anything but even sounds right. I'll just explain what the characters do since my bro also mains Ike (seconds him, but he's really good) so here we go

Both characters will try their best to space each other out but they have different objectives. Ike's frame data is generally better than Shulk's but not by that much. Once he goes beyond f-air's general range, he can outspeed most of Shulk's attacks. Shulk does outrange Ike so he can space Ike out. He can also make it difficult for Ike to get in by using jump or speed to stay mobile while maximizing his range. Ike's main asset here is his f-air. It's faster than most of Shulk's aerials (or all of them) and it outranges n-air which is Shulk's most known and used aerial among his arsenal. As a Shulk main, I'd refrain from using n-air against Ike when we're both at mid-air. I'd prefer to use b-air or f-air instead. F-air has slightly more range than Ike's f-air iirc, and you should use Shulk's f-air when you're attempting to outrange him in mid-air. That or you can opt for b-air which outranges pretty much every move in the game. It comes out really slow though so make sure you do it off from a jump.

Then again, these characters are known for their end lag. They can easily punish each other because their end lag is pretty bad. Ike can go for the grab or the kill with any of his smash attacks. Shulk can go in on Ike and gimp/death combo him with jump or speed art, or he can go for more damage with buster or he can go fro the KO with smash art. They can punish each other harshly. When it comes to grabbing, we're all sure that Ike has the better grab game. Buster Shulk's d-throw is great but only at like, 0-30% and for starting matches, it's a contest between either starting with speed or buster. Speed is generally the safer and more reliable option.

Buster should only be used if you're truly on-point with your spacing. Buster is fine against Ike but the main issue here is that Ike's damage makes it quite a second thought. It's big enough to make +13% damage received more noticeable. I'd say this for jump but you got the mobility to avoid getting hit THAT much. Regardless, if you're good at spacing with Shulk and you have a perfect understanding of how his hitboxes work, I say why not go buster? Proper usage of jump and speed art though will give Ike trouble because with those arts, you can outspace, outspeed, and possibly gimp Ike (or sweep him off-stage with n-air > f-air > f-air). Shield is alright. It's still valuable for survivable but expect to get knocked around earlier at maybe 130%+? Smash art is risky so use it when you have the upper hand. The lowered weight/increased knockback taken is easily exploitable by Ike's attacks.

Their advantaged state is great. Well, that's obvious. Whack. Slash. Both characters have a good number of combos. I'm damn sure Ike has grab combos (because I already mentioned) and some other strings/combos that I don't really notice. As for Shulk, he has a lot of combos that aren't known for whatever reason but I'll explain. In jump art, Shulk has a LOT of combos and chains from varying percentages. N-air > f-air > f-air at mid percentages. N-air > u-tilt > f-air > air slash/f-air at early percentages. D-tilt > F-air > F-air at mid percentages. U-throw > Air slash at high percentages. In speed, he can't do n-air > u-tilt > f-air > air slash/f-air or possibly even d-tilt > f-air > f-air but he can do the rest. Buster art is mostly a bunch of 2-hit combos. More or less. N-air to f-tilt/f-smash is PAINFUL. D-throw > d-tilt/f-tilt/f-smash also hurts a lot. That's about it with buster. Not much but they hit hard.

Disadvantaged. As always, bad disadvantaged state (like most characters in the game). Shulk's disadvantaged state is bad because he's combo meat and he has a gimpable recovery. Ike's disadvantaged state is bad because of the same exact reasons. They're both easy to juggle. BUT for Shulk, he can actually alleviate all these issues by switching to jump or speed. He can also switch to shield if he wants to avoid getting knocked off the stage THAT easily. It still doesn't change the fact that Shulk is limited at a disadvantage but he's not as limited as Ike. They can easily exploit each other's disadvantaged states though. In a way, Ike's damage output is intimidating for Jump Shulk since Jump increases damage taken by a whopping 22%. Damn, that's nasty. Shulk needs to be more careful and he needs to learn how to manipulate his movement with his superior mobility

Ike's u-smash is surprisingly scary despite its start up. It covers a huge amount of area and it's amazing tool for making reads and catching rolls or whiffed aerial approaches ;-;. You can easily catch Shulk's off with a right read with u-smash. Although, I'd avoid attempting to go for the smash attack reads THAT much because it's not that hard to react to and if they see it coming, Shulk's vision will hurt. A lot. Shulk's smash attacks are quite unique but the stand out here is f-smash. Shulk's f-smash is a long ranged frame-14 move that kills in a default stance. Probably kills much earlier if in smash art. Will definitely kill really early when aimed upward. Pivot f-smashing is something Ike's need to be careful of. Angled up f-smashes can easily catch aerial assaults. I'd say be careful about u-tilt but I don't ever use u-tilt against Ike unless it's for platform pressure. It's missing a hitbox in Shulk's diagonal area and it only mostly covers the area above him really. U-smash is Shulk's main smash for a read since it's the most consistent when it comes to KO'ing (solely because it kills vertically). It has a deceptive hitbox which can even catch rolls so be careful when you're rolling from the ledge. Same can be said for d-smash. D-smash lasts LONG but the start up is slow enough for you to react to. Most Shulk's use this once they've pressured you to the corner. That or they actually make hard reads with this. It KO's surprisingly early especially in Smash art (lol ~68% against Robin)

Edit: About u-tilt, I'd say it's fine if it's spaced but Ikes can approach it in a different angle that it does not cover (the part of the animation where the beam doesn't come out). Use u-tilt it they're really coming from above

So all in all, I'd say the match up is even but if you want a general range, it's probably even to slightly Shulk's favor. With customs, it's probably Ike's slight advantage because windboxes are the worst. Then again, I have zero-experience against customs Ike so idk.

 

[The_Goofyborn]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, but Ike's Eruption can be a pretty detrimental edge-guarding tool. If Shulk doesn't snap perfectly to the ledge, we're eating that Eruption. My doubles partner dabbled in Ike(GameplayZero, if you know him) and showed me just how much of a pain in the rear this can be to deal with unprepared. Obviously, there are ways around this, such as recovering high or hitting Ike out of Eruption if he's early in the charge (this one is admittedly more risk than it may be worth) or the obvious option of just making sure you snap to the ledge. The Advancing Airslash Custom could make this issue less of a deal, but without customs, I'd just say to be careful with our recovery options. I haven't seen many Ike mains take advantage of this, but it is a problem when they do and I feel my fellow Monado boy's need to know about it. Perhaps this is just a case of me not knowing an easy way to deal with Eruption, but as of this moment, I feel this is an important tidbit.

 

[GhostUrsa]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, but Ike's Eruption can be a pretty detrimental edge-guarding tool. If Shulk doesn't snap perfectly to the ledge, we're eating that Eruption. My doubles partner dabbled in Ike(GameplayZero, if you know him) and showed me just how much of a pain in the rear this can be to deal with unprepared. Obviously, there are ways around this, such as recovering high or hitting Ike out of Eruption if he's early in the charge (this one is admittedly more risk than it may be worth) or the obvious option of just making sure you snap to the ledge. The Advancing Airslash Custom could make this issue less of a deal, but without customs, I'd just say to be careful with our recovery options. I haven't seen many Ike mains take advantage of this, but it is a problem when they do and I feel my fellow Monado boy's need to know about it. Perhaps this is just a case of me not knowing an easy way to deal with Eruption, but as of this moment, I feel this is an important tidbit.

Eruption is Ike's go-to kill move for low and deep recoveries, which compliments the low knockback angles of his f-throw and b-throw nicely. Most Ike's will use it to abuse the human error involved with snapping to the ledge or hoping to flood the area with so much hitbox that maneuvering around him is impossible (A full charged Eruption has a massive hitbox both below and above Ike!). Shulk is harder to hit with anything but a full charged Eruption if the player is good with aiming his AirSlash just out of range (which allows the second slash to knock Ike out of his charge). You are more likely to see Good Ike players try for a spike or Counter against a good Shulk (unless they could get you far enough out off stage to get the Eruption to a good charge level for the expanded hitbox), while learning Ike's will attempt to punish your get-up options instead of you edge snap.

 

[Piford]

I feel like the matchup is a bit in Shulk's favor. Shulk needs to rely on his better mobility to avoid Ike, since Ike has some fast moves that Shulk has trouble dealing with. I find speed very helpful in this matchup because of this. I think back air and up tilt are probably the best tools for dealing with Ike. Shulk and Ike can both ledge guard each other easily, but I think Shulk ledge guards Ike a bit better than vice versa. Even without Jump, Shulk seems to have an easy time edge guarding, so adding Jump makes it that much safer. You have to know Ike's recovery zones and watch out for aether hitting through the stage and pushing him up the ledge on stages like Battlefield. If Ike is using the custom Aether Drive, then you should note that he recovers from a completely different range. It's about just as good of a recovery, but it allows him to ledge guard better. All 3 of Ike's Eruptions are good against Shulk, but I'd specifically worry about the big eruption in regards to Shulk not auto-snapping to the ledge. Shulk's counter is way better than Ike's, I don't think it's too important but countering any of Ike's moves do a massive amount of damage and knockback. Shulk just needs to keep his distance. The closer you get, the more likely it is you are gonna get hit with a back air, down tilt, neutral air, or other fast move. It's a bit in Shulk's favor but not by much.

 

[Berserker.]

Will put this as + 0 / +1 AKA: Even or Shulk's advantage (Meaning it could be either of the two). It could be any of the two but a ton of thanks to the Ikes who actually came here and minded us

 

[pinkdeaf1]

This matchup is definitely in shulk's favor. Speed mode makes it super hard for ike to get any punishes except with bair. If shulk is in speed mode, Ike nearly has to read an approach. And if ike whiffs, shulk can easily just come in and punish. It also remains extremely important to remark how easily shulk can ruin ike offstage. Shulk has such a good range that he can easily nick Ike with any weak aerial so long as it pushes ike further out and that will make recovering extremely difficult as ike.

 

[Peppa]

I'd also give the match up a + 0 / +1 to , while Ike does have faster frame data on a lot of moves, as always the thing that brings Shulk above the struggling slower characters is the monado arts.

I wouldn't recommend Buster in this match up myself, Ike hits like a train.

The main key IMO to this one is you as characters are similar by nature but the one advantage we have is the various mobility the Marts gives us; it'll essentially let us outpace the Ike.

As we know its not incredibly hard to gain and early lead with speed or jump. With those monado arts, you can really camp out an advantage just based on mobility alone, which is quite the change of pace playing as Shulk. As long as, in my opinion, you avoid shield or smash mostly in this match up and REALLY respect his range, you should do decently in this MU.

 

[Ultinarok]

This match-up feels even, as someone who uses Ike as a secondary. They both have similar playstyles but each take unique strengths:

Ike:
-Slightly better overall damage output.
-Better jab and grabs, and throw set-ups.
-A recovery that is dangerous to try to intercept.
-Better kill power outside of Smash mode.
-A good combination of quick, disjointed attacks and effective finishers.
-Better edgeguard game (Eruption, Side-Smash, U-Smash, Bair).
-Quick-ish aerials that also kill reliably.

Shulk:
-Way better mobility potential and mix-up with Speed and Jump.
-Better average range on virtually all attacks.
-A stronger counter that scares Ike's slow finishers.
-Can trump Ike's power in Smash and trump his damage in Buster.
-Faster smash attacks that are far less risky to use.
-His nair and fair beat even Ike's solid ones thanks to above traits.
-Ike can't really feel it, only fight for his friends.

I think Shulk has the slight edge, but few characters can pull comebacks like Ike, so the Shulk player has to play flawlessly and never let his guard down. Probably 55-45 Shulk's favor in a perfect world, 50-50 with player error taken into account (Ike punishes errors ferociously).