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Ike and Lucario: best choices they could make

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Mar 21, 2007
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Themyscira
I don't think Lucario is a good choice for Brawl because he's so over rated... He has way too much popularity just for being bipedal and human shaped. He's not even good in the pokemon games... his speed is barely 90 which gets outsped by numerous threats in the game and when you couple that with 70 base def, sp def, and hp... He will most likely get killed the minute he's switched in. Also his typing is a pretty bad one... The steel type has very good resistances but its only most effective when the typing its coupled with protects it from its common weaknesses... For example the most used attack in the game is earthquake... which lucario is weak to... He doesn't even resist fighting, in fact he's weak to it which is another common attacking type. The only thing lucario has going for it is its immunity to sandstorm and the ability to endure down to 1 hp and use reversal... Though many people are putting first priority moves like ice shard on there pokemon to stop dragon types which pretty much ruins lucario's strategy in the process... Anywho, I just don't think he would be a good pokemon in brawl... I personally would like my favorite pokemon Mime Jr. to get in but more likely i think Munchlax will get the 4th gen spot... If there's more than 1 4th gen pokemon then maybe Mime Jr. might get in... Since he is part of team rocket (the most popular characters in the anime) and very popular alone...
 

-Foggy-

Smash Apprentice
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Your logic is pretty flawed in most places at this point Wrecked, however I do agree that some characters need to be removed. These are only Dr. Mario and Pichu though. Why not Young Link, Falco, Ice Climbers, Game and Watch, Shiek and Jigglypuff you ask? Well here's why:

Young Link: Believe it or not, Young Link starred in many more games than Adult Link did. I'm pretty sure Link was a kid in Legend of Zelda (NES), Zelda 2 (NES), and A Link to the Past (SNES), as well as Minish Cap (GBA) Oracle of Ages and Seasons (GB), Four Swords (GBA) and finally, Four Swords Adventures (GC). Plus, Link was no doubt a kid in Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, Wind Waker, and Phantom Hourglass. If this is all true, then Adult Link only starred in Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess. See the logic here? Plus if you look into Young Link's available items and moves in his games, you could probably make ten movesets completely different from Adult Link's easily. With all thay being said, how would ANY other LoZ character replace him?

Falco: While it's true that there wasn't much the dev's could have done with Falco in Melee, three new Star Fox games have come out since then, and Falco's moveset could be derived from any one of them. Since command wasn't really different than 64 though, and Falco wasn't really IN adventures, Falco's moveset would have to be derived from Assault. This wouldn't be a problem though, since there are so many weapons in Assault. This means Falco's new moveset could easily be made, and it would be WAY different from that of Fox's. Wolf would be great, but I think both Falco and Wolf will make it, so what's the point?

Ice Climbers: Getting rid of the Ice Climbers makes no sence. Not only did they have an original moveset and were starting characters in Melee, but they introduced a new gameplay element to Smash never seen before. Plus, they're retro, and who doesn't love retro characters :laugh: As for Midna and Wolf Link, I would love to see them in Brawl, but replacing Ice Climbers for them is out of the question, especially since they would work together in a completely differet manner.

Game and Watch: Same deal with Ice Climbers, getting rid of Game and Watch makes no sence. He may not have introduced new gameplay elements, but he is arguably the most imortant character in Nintendo history. Sakurai would be insulting Nintendo NOT to put him in. Plus your argument with Pong and Pac Man makes no sence. If you can find a single character in Pong capable of fighting, then PM me and I will serve you hand and foot for the rest of your life and declare you the almighty savior Jesus.. but too bad that's impossible. As for Pac Man, how would a non Nintendo character replace Game and Watch? Balloon Fighter you say? No...just...no.

Shiek: I created a thread recently on a reason on why Shiek has a high chance of returning, and got flamed to bits, so I'm just gonna say that she has an original moveset, so why get rid of her? IMO, Shiek should become her own character since Zelda is all TP style, but since this is Smash, and not everything has to make perfect sence with the original game, I think how Shiek will reappear is up in the air for now. Zamus's only similarities to Shiek are her speed and perhaps chain move.

Jiggly: Huh? Why the **** would an original Smash64 character leave? You are out of your mind with this one, sorry..lol.

In the end though, I think all these characters will return simply because they have a unique personality. I think everybody with SOME kind of uniqueness in them will stay. Dr. Mario and Pichu are essentially alternate costmes, so there is no reason for them to stay.
 

Circus

Rhymes with Jerkus
BRoomer
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Jul 9, 2007
Messages
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I don't think Lucario is a good choice for Brawl because he's so over rated... He has way too much popularity just for being bipedal and human shaped. He's not even good in the pokemon games... his speed is barely 90 which gets outsped by numerous threats in the game and when you couple that with 70 base def, sp def, and hp... He will most likely get killed the minute he's switched in. Also his typing is a pretty bad one... The steel type has very good resistances but its only most effective when the typing its coupled with protects it from its common weaknesses... For example the most used attack in the game is earthquake... which lucario is weak to... He doesn't even resist fighting, in fact he's weak to it which is another common attacking type. The only thing lucario has going for it is its immunity to sandstorm and the ability to endure down to 1 hp and use reversal... Though many people are putting first priority moves like ice shard on there pokemon to stop dragon types which pretty much ruins lucario's strategy in the process... Anywho, I just don't think he would be a good pokemon in brawl... I personally would like my favorite pokemon Mime Jr. to get in but more likely i think Munchlax will get the 4th gen spot... If there's more than 1 4th gen pokemon then maybe Mime Jr. might get in... Since he is part of team rocket (the most popular characters in the anime) and very popular alone...
You know, that wall-of-text is kind of a waste, because it isn't really relevant at all. Lucario's stats in Pokemon Diamond and Pearl amount to absolute bunk when it comes to Smash. Being weak to Earthquake in Pokemon won't effect Lucario at all if he's in Brawl.

And . . . over rated? Too popular? I can see where you're coming from, but if anything, his popularity (whether founded or not) only makes him a better candidate. In general, I don't think people pick characters to be in Brawl just because they think they're "right for the game". They pick them because they like them as a character. At least, that's what I do.
 

Wreked

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 1, 2007
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Jacksonville
Just to let you guys know i'm not really paying attention to any of your flaming, i'm looking at you foggy. So save you fingers some typing and don't bother. Nothing is going to change my mind.
 

Lupo Aro

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 27, 2005
Messages
531
I don't think Lucario is a good choice for Brawl because he's so over rated... AKA Popular? He has way too much popularity just for being bipedal and human shaped. He's not even good in the pokemon games... his speed is barely 90 which gets outsped by numerous threats in the game and when you couple that with 70 base def, sp def, and hp... He will most likely get killed the minute he's switched in. Switch him into some Dark/Rock/Bug moves... Also his typing is a pretty bad one... The steel type has very good resistances but its only most effective when the typing its coupled with protects it from its common weaknesses... Lucario has some great 1/4 resists which I mentioned earlier.For example the most used attack in the game is earthquake... which lucario is weak to... Why is Lucario being left to die in an EQ? He doesn't even resist fighting, in fact he's weak to it which is another common attacking type. The only thing lucario has going for it is its immunity to sandstorm and the ability to endure down to 1 hp and use reversal... Lucario has a massive movepool outside of the now-cliche endrevver. Agility, Choice Band/Specs, Mix Sweeper...Though many people are putting first priority moves like ice shard on there pokemon to stop dragon types which pretty much ruins lucario's strategy in the process... Priority moves are actually pretty rare nowadays...Anywho, I just don't think he would be a good pokemon in brawl... I personally would like my favorite pokemon Mime Jr. to get in but more likely i think Munchlax will get the 4th gen spot... If there's more than 1 4th gen pokemon then maybe Mime Jr. might get in... Since he is part of team rocket (the most popular characters in the anime) and very popular alone...Why? Neither of them are very popular at all, and wouldn't make all that much sense in SSBB.
(10charlimitfails)
 

D3monicWolv3s

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 11, 2006
Messages
648
Ok, ok, I still hate her though. Nothing is going to make me like her other than that she is out of Smash.

I don't really like her either, but I don't want her out just over that reason.


I knew it. Someone was going to whip out the old "he's the beginning of Nintendo and gaming" so now pong should be in Brawl?

-sigh- Pong isn't related to nintendo, and can't do anything. G&W was where nintendo started, and the G&W handhelds are basically the design of the DS. Balloon fighter is a recognizable character, but that is about it. He was supposed to be in melee apparently, but guess who took his spot? IC's... yeah. Plus I hate to say it... but I think tingle has a higher chance then Balloon Fighter. He has gotten his own games, popular in japan, and has a balloon fighter game.

Lucas was supposed to be in SSB 64. He was going to be replaced in melee, didn't happen probaly because of time. Now, they have time, perfect oppurtunity to replace.

I don't think he was going to be on the SSB 64, because his nintendo 64 title got canceled.
I still don't think that he will get replaced. Ness was worldwide, while Lucas was Japan only.
Maybe as a alt costume... or an assist...


Ok keep them in if you're going to freak out like that.

I wasn't freaking out. I am just saying that Midna and wolf link are like deku link and the others. They will likely to never return, and to a big series they aren't very important. I am not saying its impossible, but I think WW link, Vaati, and Skull kid are more deserving for more then one appearance.



eh... I was pretty chilled out while typing all of that... -_- But thanks none the less. =]
 

xyouxarexuglyx2

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 26, 2006
Messages
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Phoenix, AZ
I know someone is going to flame me for this but Jigglypuff needs to be out. He is so random, in the anime he sung people to sleep then wrote on thier faces. Somebody is going to say, Oh he is so unique such a creative moveset. That's the same response I get every time I mention Jiggs or G&W and IC. Those three, Pichu, Roy, maybe Marth(spot could go to someone better), Falco(see marth), Ness(Lucas can replace), Y Link(see marth) and Shiek. All ten of these could easily be replace. Here i'll make some suggestions. Jiggs, lucario. G&W, Balloon Fighter. IC, Midna and Wolf Link. Pichu, he just needs out. Roy, Hector. Marth, Lyn. Falco, Wolf. Ness, Lucas. Y Link, Vaati, Skull Kid, or WW Link, hopefully Vaati. Sheik, Zamus. Let the flaming begin......Now!
Smashing your phallus on a wooden table with a hammer could easily be done, but that does not mean it should.

and here for the character ideas..
-How the HELL would Lucario substitute Jiggs? Last time I checked, Lucario can't jump 11 times.
-Midna and Wolf Link are two different entities and they are improportionate to Ice Climbers. Mida and WL would be a humanoid being, and a wolf. Ice Climbers are two humanoid dwarfs with parkas.
-Yes he does.
-Roy is cooler than Hector
-No.. just no.
-Falco is smaller, thus more aiming towards speed. I'd imagine Wolf being a very slow space animal.
-idgaf
-idgaf
-HELL no.
 

Bassoonist

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If any Pokemon character was to go, it should be Mewtwo. He just sucks.

*raises flame shield*
Sure lets keep Pichu. The character without a unique moveset.
 

-Foggy-

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Wrecked, I don't know how to say this, but there was no flaming in my post. Maybe a little bit, but as much as my post was directed towards your ideas, I was also just stating MY ideas, and honestly, sometimes stating your ideas is what this board is all about. I don't care if you didn't read my post, because I'm sure someone else did, and someone else got to know my whole viewpoint on the whole thing, and maybe I changed their mind on something because of that.
 
Joined
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AKA Popular?
Overrated: To overestimate the merits of; rate too highly.

Switch him into some Dark/Rock/Bug moves..
Ok what is he going to do after? Say he switches into Weavile's night slash... Then what? Weavile is going to ko him with brick break that's what. He can switch into dark type moves but unless they are locked into the move via a choice item they will most likely ko him right afterwards with earthquake or close combat etc. Is he going to switch into Heracross' megahorn? lol, he's gonna get ko'd right afterwards from his close combat... Unless, once again its a choiced item pokemon. Same goes for rock, especially if someone's stupid enough to switch him into rhyperior's stone edge thinking you will be able to ko him with your fighting move... Take for example... the bug/flying type... This type has alot of resistances (4x fighting, 4x bug, 4x grass) but they are easily ripped apart by anything else... So yeah

Why is Lucario being left to die in an EQ?
Because dugtrio has arena trap... lol... Also maybe he thinks he can ko the pokemon when he can't... Cause his offensive stats are very good considering he has decent stats in both but they lack when you try to do a pure physical lucario or a pure special lucario.

Lucario has a massive movepool outside of the now-cliche endrevver. Agility, Choice Band/Specs, Mix Sweeper...
I know he has a good movepool but i'm saying that's all he really has going for him since many pokemon can accomplish choice banding, choice specing, and mixed sweeping better than him. Here are some examples... Agility: blaziken (like lucario's rival when it comes to being in brawl) Porygon-2, Metagross. Choice Band: Azumarill, Medicham, Ambipom, Tauros. Choice Specs: Gengar (who has an even better movepool than lucario might i add), Porygon-Z, Salamence. Mixed Sweeping: Blaziken (lol), Infernape, Salamence, Garchomp, Porygon-Z.
SO while he may have other options many pokemon just accomplish those things better.

Priority moves are actually pretty rare nowadays...
Priority moves are being used more this gen more than any other gen due to there being much more... Many pokemon use moves like bullet punch, mach punch, ice shard, and extreme speed now more than ever because of a bunch of big threats are weak to them.

Why? Neither of them are very popular at all, and wouldn't make all that much sense in SSBB..
wth... Munchlax is like the face of the fourth gen... He was the first 4th generation pokemon to be released and is very popular. He was part of haruka's team and played a big role in the anime, I'd be surprised if he wasn't in the game. Mime Jr. is popular, he was released alongside Weavile, Bonsly, and Lucario and he is a trophy in the Pokemon Mystery Dungeon games. He's part of Team Rocket in the anime and battles in very unique ways like making his opponents dance with teeter dance and mimicking other's moves... Both of these pokemon would fit in brawl... I don't know why you think they wouldn't...
 

PrinnyFlute

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 20, 2007
Messages
331
Man, I wish they'd just up and announce Lucario tonight. It's sad, because I'm not even saying that because of how badly I want him in the game. I just want everyone to shut up about this already.
 

Hejiru

Smash Ace
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898
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I would love for Lucario to be in Brawl. If not, then the next one, because Diamond and Pearl pokemon probably won't be in Brawl, because Ruby/Sapphire pokemon weren't in Melee, even though they were out already.
 

Circus

Rhymes with Jerkus
BRoomer
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Messages
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I would love for Lucario to be in Brawl. If not, then the next one, because Diamond and Pearl pokemon probably won't be in Brawl, because Ruby/Sapphire pokemon weren't in Melee, even though they were out already.
In general, your post confuses me, but the bolded part in particular drives me mad.

Why do people keep saying this? It makes no sense to me. What makes the 4th generation so unlikely to be represented? It's not like Diamond and Pearl were released yesterday.
 

Lupo Aro

Smash Ace
Joined
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Messages
531
Ok what is he going to do after? Say he switches into Weavile's night slash... Then what? Weavile is going to ko him with brick break that's what. No, Weavile switches because it's locked into Night Slash due to Choice Band. He can switch into dark type moves but unless they are locked into the move via a choice item they will most likely ko him right afterwards with earthquake or close combat etc. Is he going to switch into Heracross' megahorn? lol, he's gonna get ko'd right afterwards from his close combat... Unless, once again its a choiced item pokemon. When is Heracross not holding a Choice item?Same goes for rock, especially if someone's stupid enough to switch him into rhyperior's stone edge thinking you will be able to ko him with your fighting move... Finish off a weakened Rhyinferior?Take for example... the bug/flying type... This type has alot of resistances (4x fighting, 4x bug, 4x grass) but they are easily ripped apart by anything else... So yeah


Because dugtrio has arena trap... lol... Also maybe he thinks he can ko the pokemon when he can't... Cause his offensive stats are very good considering he has decent stats in both but they lack when you try to do a pure physical lucario or a pure special lucario. Dugtrio is a bad example because it traps ANYTHING except fliers and levitators, and is used as a revenge killer.


I know he has a good movepool but i'm saying that's all he really has going for him since many pokemon can accomplish choice banding, choice specing, and mixed sweeping better than him. Here are some examples... Agility: blaziken (like lucario's rival when it comes to being in brawl) Porygon-2, Metagross. Choice Band: Azumarill Azumarill, despite Huge Power, isn't that great a CBer from what I gather..., Medicham, Ambipom, Tauros Tauros isn't very good.... Choice Specs: Gengar (who has an even better movepool than lucario might i add), Gengar has a FREAKING huge movepool, go him! ^^ Porygon-Z, Salamence. Mixed Sweeping: Blaziken (lol) Blaziken is too slow..., Infernape, Salamence, Garchomp Chain Chomp ftw, Porygon-Z Him, a mixed sweeper? You're kidding..
SO while he may have other options many pokemon just accomplish those things better. False statement. A Pokemon isn't exactly better an it's category, it really depends on how it works within its team.


Priority moves are being used more this gen more than any other gen due to there being much more... Many pokemon use moves like bullet punch, mach punch, ice shard, and extreme speed now more than ever because of a bunch of big threats are weak to them.
Stop playing PBR/Battle Tower so much.

wth... Munchlax is like the face of the fourth gen... He was the first 4th generation pokemon to be released and is very popular. He was part of haruka's team and played a big role in the anime, I'd be surprised if he wasn't in the game. Mime Jr. is popular, he was released alongside Weavile, Bonsly, and Lucario and he is a trophy in the Pokemon Mystery Dungeon games. More like as a mention to the new Pokemon who starred in the 8th movie... He's part of Team Rocket in the anime and battles in very unique ways like making his opponents dance with teeter dance and mimicking other's moves... Both of these pokemon would fit in brawl... I don't know why you think they wouldn't...My opinion I suppose.
Can we stop discussing the Pokemon metagame and talk about SMASH?
 

PitIcarus

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
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655
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Cedar Rapids, Iowa
I would love for Lucario to be in Brawl. If not, then the next one, because Diamond and Pearl pokemon probably won't be in Brawl, because Ruby/Sapphire pokemon weren't in Melee, even though they were out already.
Melee came out in 2001...Ruby/Sapphire came out in 2003 for the U.S. So no, that is just 100% incorrect.
 

LightLink17

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 19, 2007
Messages
170
Why is Lucario popular? I'd never heard of him prior to this board. And apparently he's a shoe in according to most? What's up with that?
 

the grim lizard

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 26, 2004
Messages
3,130
Why is Lucario popular? I'd never heard of him prior to this board. And apparently he's a shoe in according to most? What's up with that?
There are a handful of people on these boards who really want him in (for some reason). He's like Fox except...oh yeah! ]=[3 |-|@5 73h $7e3|_ 7y|>3!!!13113\/3|\|!!0|\|3!!1
 

iankobe

Smash Lord
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Dec 25, 2005
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Los Angeles, CA
To me personally, Brawl will might include R&S and D&P. Why?

Melee included only from the OGs and to Gold and Silver. That's two generations. It would make sense if they include R&S, and D&P together. If they can do two generations at a time, why not this time?
 

the grim lizard

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 26, 2004
Messages
3,130
To me personally, Brawl will might include R&S and D&P. Why?

Melee included only from the OGs and to Gold and Silver. That's two generations. It would make sense if they include R&S, and D&P together. If they can do two generations at a time, why not this time?
They're already including three gens. Goldeen, Chikorita, and Groudon.
 

kaid

Smash Master
Joined
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Boulder Creek, CA.
If Sakurai has time to add Assist Trophies, we have to assume Pokeballs have aready been taken to their logical extreme. This would include 4th gen pokes, as well as 1st, 2nd and 3rd.
 

Paden260

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
30
lucario was released alerady when PMD was out.
so id say he chanches are high.

as for these that says mewtwo should go out*points at avatar*
better shut their crapped mouth up.
mewtwo is awesome,cool and tough.
he was the best charater in melee.

1.mewtwo is NOT a clone
2.deoxys is pokeball-ificationed


ps. i love pokemon.
i just cant live without it.
>.>

Mewtwo was NOT the best character in Melee. Fox or Falco are probably. Mewtwo is in around the weakest tier.
 

kaid

Smash Master
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Messages
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He wasn't saying Mewtwo was statistically more powerful.

He was saying, in his opinion, Mewtwo's unique moveset was more fun to play. (Best being defined as the character who brings the most enjoyment out of the game, win or lose)
 

MDupont

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 9, 2007
Messages
62
If anyone wants to see Lucario's moveset, here it is. As you can see, regardless of stats, Sakurai can devise a masterpiece of a moveset for Lucario with all of these moves to select. Lucario has a good body structure to be a fighter, and he is popular in Japan and America. He is still a one-off character in DP though since you get his first form Riolu as an Egg in the game. He isn't considered a legendary though.

There are 493 Pokemon. They have to put a new Pokemon from DP in as a fighter to represent it. Just how Wario represents his new line of games.
 

Nergal

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 8, 2007
Messages
226
Lucario is an excellent addition. By appearance, he would be a mix of Fox & Mewtwo. & Jiggs is the best playable pokemon, so he stays
 

metapit4

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 26, 2007
Messages
8
Pichu can never have different moves from Pikachu even his Final Smash would be the same.
 

AeThEr_BlAzE

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 9, 2007
Messages
1
Wellthats bad for him...im just happy Ike made it to brawl he seems like a good char overall
 

MDupont

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 9, 2007
Messages
62
Lucario will not be in Brawl as a playable character.... actually he won't be in it at all.
Source please? Or do you always go around and push your arrogance as fact?

OMGz. I know whoz you is. You arez a spy hired to watch Sakurai's mind0rz. ZOMG.

Oh wait, you're not. :O I laugh at this because your a Lucario hater for whatever reason, even though it would make perfect sense to add him. Someone needs to represent DP and he would fit perfectly. Now run off and finish your Teletubbies DVD Collection before you make a bigger jerk out of yourself.

I think Lucario will be in the game, and I think I will be playable.
 
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