Ike 1.1.0 Patch changes + discussion

[XDaDePsak]

New patch came out today, July 20, 2015.

No word yet on any changes. First impressions it feels like his attacks have lost knockback, but he may have become a bit more agile in the air. I haven't seen any hard numbers so this is all just gut feelings.

edit by San:

Ike Uair: ,+

Base Knockback: 40→55
Knockback growth: 100 → 94​

This means that uair is overall stronger, especially so closer to the boundaries.​

Dthrow:,

Hitbox location has been altered. G&W properly gets hit by dthrow now.​

 

[Luig]

Aether still can't grab ledges from behind. Fsmash fully charged still kos at 40%. Fair still has good hitboxes and DA still has crazy kb. He feels the same, but I think Dantarion has already dumped the patch.

EDIT:
Uair

• Growth reduced 100→94
• Base increased 40→55

 

[drogoth232]

I have a good background in brawl modding so I can read the code to some degree, here's the changes that are on Dantarion's mastercore. Just giving general stuff, nothing specific until I get more time.

Up air has slightly reduced Knock Back growth
Down throw hitboxes have a different placement? Doesn't make sense, but it's there.

You guys can choose to believe me or not, but I implore you guys to check out my background in brawl coding both on Smashboards and KCMM.

 

[drogoth232]

Whoops, I read Lucina changes and back to Ike. Editing right now

Edited the values, they SHOULD be the correct ones now.

 

[Luig]

• Uair
• Growth reduced 100→94
• Base increased 40→55

LOL
Not sure if this qualifies as a buff or nerf.

 

[Champ Gold]

Tell me this is probably Placebo


Ike's F-Smash has less frames than before.

Now I'm not talking something big like almost being close to Mario's but it's less laggy. Please tell me it's placebo so I don't get any false hope

 

[Luig]

You can think of the fox jab nerf as a Ike buff.

 

[san.]

• Uair
• Growth reduced 100→94
• Base increased 40→55

LOL
Not sure if this qualifies as a buff or nerf.

It's mostly a buff.

 

[Luig]

I've killed people off the top of halberd at like 50 or 60%
Get rekt

 

[Azureflame]

I just played in a local tournament today with the update nothing really felt different on Ike. I didn't really notice anything different about U-air, not that I use it often anyway but what does this change mean?

 

[PyroTakun]

I just played in a local tournament today with the update nothing really felt different on Ike. I didn't really notice anything different about U-air, not that I use it often anyway but what does this change mean?

Overall the move has more Knock-Back and kills earlier.

 

[Mario766]

Up Air makes Battlefield, Dream Land, Smashville, Delfino and Halberd better than before.

Things are looking up.

 

[ReroRero]

Up air does kill earlier but but how much earlier ?

 

[Starfall11]

Up Air makes Battlefield, Dream Land, Smashville, Delfino and Halberd better than before.

Things are looking up.

Was this an intentional pun?! Lol. I was hoping for more buffs like Marth. But Ike is still strong.

 

[doom dragon 105]

Up Air makes Battlefield, Dream Land, Smashville, Delfino and Halberd better than before.

Things are looking up.

WE HERE FAM!!!

 

[Banjobeast158]

Up air does kill earlier but but how much earlier ?

It kills 7% earlier on a ground level Mario with 0 rage on FD

 

[Arrei]

It killed Luigi at around 87% on Omega while I had around the same amount of damage, from just under double jump height. I'm fairly sure it never killed midweights below 100% without high rage before, and most frequently it needed more than 100%, yeah?

I wonder what they're planning for Ike, though. Uair feels more lethal now, but while Fair was made less janky and Bair is still a beauty, Dair's sitting over there still being bad. Do they intend Ike to have brutal options above and around him, but a big weak spot below him?

 

[san.]

Uair is probably one of the strongest in the game now.

It killed Luigi at around 87% on Omega while I had around the same amount of damage, from just under double jump height. I'm fairly sure it never killed midweights below 100% without high rage before, and most frequently it needed more than 100%, yeah?

I wonder what they're planning for Ike, though. Uair feels more lethal now, but while Fair was made less janky and Bair is still a beauty, Dair's sitting over there still being bad. Do they intend Ike to have brutal options above and around him, but a big weak spot below him?

The problem with dair is that they removed the lingering hitboxes, but KEPT the FAF so Ike can't respond in the air.

The solution to this is to decrease the FAF by how many lingering hitboxes they removed, so that Ike can at least jump earlier. The stats of the actual hitbox is pretty decent otherwise.

Brawl stats:

Hit on: 16-30
IASA (Air): 55
IASA (Landing): 29
Auto-cancel: 1-4, 48-54

IASA or FAF should be reduced to ~42-45 after removing 13 frames of hitboxes. Either that, or add a landing hitbox to simulate lingering hitboxes. He's plummeting ragnell into the ground so there should be something like that. Not asking for dair to be OP, but to be around Brawl's level and balanced.

 

[Arrei]

Perhaps their idea was the balance is in its ability to kill even if you miss the sweetspot? As bad as it is for spiking and discouraging jugglers, it's quite deadly when landed even if - or perhaps, especially if you miss the sweetspot. It's just too awkward to land that deadliness, most of us feel.

Removing all those useless frames would definitely go a long way, if they don't want to make them active frames. Imagine if it could autocancel from a short hop? Would give Ike some good shield pressure game. Actually managed to shatter a shield with Dair after a string of attacks the other day, but unfortunately it was too early on to kill even with Eruption.

 

[Starfall11]

I just want Brawl dair back really badly. It's the same as PM dair, right? I want to Dthrow near the edge into spike so badly. It'd be amazing.

 

[PyroTakun]

Uair is probably one of the strongest in the game now.



The problem with dair is that they removed the lingering hitboxes, but KEPT the FAF so Ike can't respond in the air.

The solution to this is to decrease the FAF by how many lingering hitboxes they removed, so that Ike can at least jump earlier. The stats of the actual hitbox is pretty decent otherwise.

Brawl stats:

Hit on: 16-30
IASA (Air): 55
IASA (Landing): 29
Auto-cancel: 1-4, 48-54

IASA or FAF should be reduced to ~42-45 after removing 13 frames of hitboxes. Either that, or add a landing hitbox to simulate lingering hitboxes. He's plummeting ragnell into the ground so there should be something like that. Not asking for dair to be OP, but to be around Brawl's level and balanced.

It never crossed my mind to have the IASA frames decreased, I'd be perfectly OK with that.
The problem is how helpless you are after you use it, so both your solution and the Brawl solution make sense.

Actually, pretty much any change to D-Air would be welcome at this point.

 

[XDaDePsak]

Perhaps their idea was the balance is in its ability to kill even if you miss the sweetspot? As bad as it is for spiking and discouraging jugglers, it's quite deadly when landed even if - or perhaps, especially if you miss the sweetspot. It's just too awkward to land that deadliness, most of us feel.

Removing all those useless frames would definitely go a long way, if they don't want to make them active frames. Imagine if it could autocancel from a short hop? Would give Ike some good shield pressure game. Actually managed to shatter a shield with Dair after a string of attacks the other day, but unfortunately it was too early on to kill even with Eruption.

Isn't Fsmash the preferred method of finishing off a stunned opponent? Or does eruption really have better knock back?

 

[Arrei]

Not sure, but a full Fsmash wouldn't have done the job anyway. Went for the Eruption to get 35 damage out of the break if I wasn't going to be able to kill him.

 

[Mario766]

Eruption at the shine does the most KB for Ike.

 

[Luig]

It does? I thought the last stage where it launches vertically kills the earliest.

 

[Mario766]

It does? I thought the last stage where it launches vertically kills the earliest.

It actually does the same KB but deals 10 percent damage to you. They all do 35 percent damage. Unless you're at the edge you actually die at the corner, not up top.

 

[XDaDePsak]

So if you release exactly at the moment of the shine you get the full KB but without the 10% self damage?

 

[Mario766]

It works right before the shine too.

 

[san.]

I believe the hitbox is slightly larger for the 10% damage to you portion and that's it. 10% damage is miniscule, so I hold as long as needed to hit the opponent recovering to the ledge.

 

[NerfAkira]

i think the only buff ike needs now is just his foward smash killing like 20% sooner. its a super risky smash attack, that pays off really really badly. compared to its godlike brother, up smash, there is pretty much no reason at all to ever forward smash on ike.

that or speed it up by like 10%.

 

[NerfAkira]

• Uair
• Growth reduced 100→94
• Base increased 40→55

LOL
Not sure if this qualifies as a buff or nerf.

it needed a nerf here, and im fine with this. there was a true combo to most of the cast that allows an upair at around 100%, which before would have killed most of them.

 

[Luig]

But the uair got a major buff in kill power.

 

[NerfAkira]

^ if it has i apologize. i felt like that and down air got nerfed in kill potential this patch, but that may have been due to failure of most players to understand the changed di mechanic for vertical launchers.

 

[Luig]

Dair is same. Uair Base knockback buff counteracts the kbg nerf. Uair now kills much earlier. A lot earlier. Still later than brawl though.

 

[NerfAkira]

ughhh i meant down throwwwww

 

[Arrei]

Nope, only change to Dthrow was shifting the second hitbox to properly hit Mr. Game and Watch. Dthrow is just VERY dependent on rage to kill.

 

[NerfAkira]

i thought the change in DI mechanics might have messed with it too, oh well.