If Fire Emblem got in...

[miller483]

Couldn't Famicom/Advance/Battalion Wars get in too? I mean, FE was a spinoff of those games.

Andy and Max for Brawl!

Andy:

Max:

 

[Pieman0920]

There's a Andy thread out there somewhere, and I'm not sure if there's a Max one, but it's probably out there too.

And only Andy has a chance, if any. The thing is that the COs don't really do much attacking, and the soldiers who do are generic. (Not to mention use realistic weaponry, which is a no no)

In my opinion, if Andy is in, he should be a character along the lines of Tron Bonne from MvC2, and piolet a custom mini-neo tank. Basically Andy is visible there, but all his attacks are done by the tank which he is riding in, which has four legs which can be used like feet or arms.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Couldn't Famicom/Advance/Battalion Wars get in too? I mean, FE was a spinoff of those games.

Andy and Max for Brawl!

SPINOFF?!

The first Fire Emblem was a 1990 game, way before Advance Wars appeared on the scene.



Anyway, Fire Emblem is VERY different from Advance Wars, try at least a tactical RPG.




And they'd probably pull something pre-US, from Famicom Wars (the series that advance wars is part of).

 

[Kirby knight]

Couldn't Famicom/Advance/Battalion Wars get in too? I mean, FE was a spinoff of those games.

Andy and Max for Brawl!

Andy:

Max:

First and formost Fire Emblem is not a SPINOFF, what ever gave you that impression? I don't know about an AW character getting in I guess if Andy got in he'd have some awesome combos with that wrench of his

-Knight

 

[Algus Underdunk]

SPINOFF?!

The first Fire Emblem was a 1990 game, way before Advance Wars appeared on the scene.



Anyway, Fire Emblem is VERY different from Advance Wars, try at least a tactical RPG.




And they'd probably pull something pre-US, from Famicom Wars (the series that advance wars is part of).

Try again

Famicom Wars originally came out in 1988. The first Fire Emblem came out in 1990. It could very well be a spin-off inspired by it.


I see Andy as being a fighter who can summon up troops and units... but amusingly undersized versions. Pictures all the tanks, choppers, cannons, etc., as the size of toy-soldiers. So when Andy attacks, he whips out a tiny tank that fires out a huge blast, or a tiny long-range cannon that sits atop his head...

Or imagine a teeny helicopter lifting him back into battle and launching missiles at enemies... or even a tiny cadre of troops attacking an enemy or acting as a shield...

 

[Zevox]

First off, Fire Emblem is by no means a spin-off of Advance/Nintendo Wars. The only similarity between the two is the general turn-based grid-style tactical system, which is something that has existed longer than video games have (Dungeons & Dragons has used it for decades, and the utter basics can be seen in games like Chess, which is centuries old). Second off, Fire Emblem is a much more popular series than Nintendo Wars, not to mention it was the series that created the tactical RPG genre among video games, so its quite an important one too, which is why it got in.

As for the possibility of a Nintendo Wars character, perhaps. Its one of the larger of the unrepresented 1st/2nd party franchise options. Personally, I'd prefer if they didn't - the only unique characters in the series are commanders, not fighters, and the main one who would be the most likely rep, Andy, even specializes in repairs and plainly is not built or trained for personal combat. Plus theres the whole "no realistic weapons" thing Sakurai is doing, which prevented Snake from having a gun, and would be a definite deterrent to their characters. I could definitely see them getting some ATs (artillery and tanks for allies sounds quite fun), or perhaps even a stage, though. Certainly if nothing else some trophies and stickers are well-deserved.

Zevox

 

[adumbrodeus]

Try again

Famicom Wars originally came out in 1988. The first Fire Emblem came out in 1990. It could very well be a spin-off inspired by it.


I see Andy as being a fighter who can summon up troops and units... but amusingly undersized versions. Pictures all the tanks, choppers, cannons, etc., as the size of toy-soldiers. So when Andy attacks, he whips out a tiny tank that fires out a huge blast, or a tiny long-range cannon that sits atop his head...

Or imagine a teeny helicopter lifting him back into battle and launching missiles at enemies... or even a tiny cadre of troops attacking an enemy or acting as a shield...

He said a spin-off of "advance wars", not Famicom Wars.



And, as I also pointed out, it's far more akin to tactical rpgs in general then any straight turn-based strategy game.

 

[Algus Underdunk]

Come to think of it, aside from Famicom Wars existing before Fire Emblem, I'm fairly sure the same group made both series... Intelligent Systems, right?

So yes, I'd imagine they were inspired to reuse the concept and branch off into a new genre, thus metaphorically tearing Fire Emblem from the thigh of Advance Wars.

He said a spin-off of "advance wars", not Famicom Wars.



And, as I also pointed out, it's far more akin to tactical rpgs in general then any straight turn-based strategy game.

Famicom Wars is part of the Advance Wars franchise. The first game in it, in fact.

Famicom, Advance, and Batallion are all really a single franchise.




And having played quite a few of both franchises, Wars and Fire Emblem, I can say there are quite a few similarities to them. Both have 'fog of war', 'terrain bonuses', a character/unit hierarchy affecting which units can do more damage to which other units (for example, archer and flying mounts in Fire Emblem, anti-aircraft units and choppers in Wars), large and varied maps, a need to constantly supply characters (Wars units need food, gas and ammo. FE characters need weapons, items, and health), there's a concept of 'base capturing' in both, allowing you items in Fire Emblem, and restoration points in Advance Wars)

There's also the plot advancement through character profiles between and sometimes during battles.

Of course as the two series progress they're each establishing themselves with unique touches for individuality, but there's no denying that the same team definitely made both series.

And while I wouldn't call FE a 'spin-off', FE and Wars are esentially Brother and Sister games.

 

[Algus Underdunk]

[edit: my mistake, didn't mean to double post]

 

[adumbrodeus]

Famicom Wars is part of the Advance Wars franchise. The first game in it, in fact.

Famicom, Advance, and Batallion are all really a single franchise.

Whoops, misread, he said Famicom.

The spin-off point stands though.



Oh, and of course, the spin-off point, Fire Emblem, whatever it's simularities with any games in the series, is not a spin-off of any Famicom Wars game, it bears no relation beyond usage of some similar concepts..

And having played quite a few of both franchises, Wars and Fire Emblem, I can say there are quite a few similarities to them. Both have 'fog of war', 'terrain bonuses', a character/unit hierarchy affecting which units can do more damage to which other units (for example, archer and flying mounts in Fire Emblem, anti-aircraft units and choppers in Wars), large and varied maps, a need to constantly supply characters (Wars units need food, gas and ammo. FE characters need weapons, items, and health), there's a concept of 'base capturing' in both, allowing you items in Fire Emblem, and restoration points in Advance Wars)

All of which have been used in other strategy games and/or rpgs and/or tactical rpgs before.

Especially, weapons, items, and health, borrowed from the first rpgs, and the connection with food, gas, and ammo is tenuous at best. Base capturing is just another form of "get/perform the objective", which has been present in every game, ever, from tetris on up, with differing rewards, but always rewards. The whole rock/paper/scissors relationship isn't quite as direct in Advance Wars, and was a concept that existed way before advance wars, since rock/paper scissors. Don't even get me started on strategy games and fog of war.

Then, there are the myrid differences, truthfully they only look similar because they are in very related genres, but compare it to other games in the genres and the connection looks far more tenuous.

There's also the plot advancement through character profiles between and sometimes during battles.

That's sort of been a gaming staple since forever.

Of course as the two series progress they're each establishing themselves with unique touches for individuality, but there's no denying that the same team definitely made both series.

I could say the same for Final Fantasy Tactics, or Ogre Battle.

And while I wouldn't call FE a 'spin-off', FE and Wars are esentially Brother and Sister games.

When compared in a Vacuum, just looking at similarities, everything seems that way. It's called a confirmation bias, people tend to look for positative examples instead of ones that disprove it, like say, the entire leveling-up system, the items system, etc.

 

[Algus Underdunk]

Adumbrodeus, you really are seeming to have a hard time acknowledging that Fire Emblem and Wars are intensely similar, and rightfully so because the same team made both.

I also said they DO have their defining qualities to them, such as you mentioned, leveling in FE, alternate COs in Wars, but having played enough of both and it is quite easy to see where something attempted in one influenced the other as the team at Intelligent Systems got better at what they did and experimented with new concepts for both franchises.

It's easier to accept the fact that the two games are extremely similar while having different flavors to them... and it's not a put-down to either game, I think they're both great franchises and I like playing them both. But it's undeniable that the two share quite a bit of their concepts and codes, mainly because they share a lot of their workers from both



...also, I intentionally didn't say "Rock Paper Scissors", despite it being prevalent in both games. It's a basis, yes, but both games extend beyond that to more complex battles... (now Yggdra Union, THAT goes Rock Paper Scissors like mad).

...and don't think I'm biased one way or another just because my siggy shows a Wars tank blowing away an FE character ^_^;;;;

 

[Conformal_Invariance]

And so what if Andy isn't meant for Combat?

Neither is Princess Peach.

They made her work out!

I'd personally enjoy wielding dual wrenches and calling in Bomber/Missile/Rocket/Mech Support.

The mini-troops idea someone said earlier was a good one!

 

[T-major]

I for one think that advanced wars NEEDS to be represented in Brawl! it's an awesome franchise, with a lot of personality. it needs AT LEAST a stage.

I think that Andy would be the best choice for a playable character, since he's arguably the most recognizable. they could do a lot with his move set; he could use that wrench as his main weapon, which would give him a unique way of attacking. his specials would be really interesting. using a parachute or helicopter to recover, machine gun (I don't really count it as a real world weapon, because they could easily make it work unrealistically) or a bazooka, or they could just make some up that would fit him. I also like the idea of him riding in a custom vehicle. that would be a VERY original and interesting character for brawl; and seeing as Andy is a mechanic it fits his character.

if a character doesn't get in as playable, I think that AW should have a LOT of ATs.

 

[Algus Underdunk]

And so what if Andy isn't meant for Combat?

Neither is Princess Peach.

They made her work out!

I'd personally enjoy wielding dual wrenches and calling in Bomber/Missile/Rocket/Mech Support.

The mini-troops idea someone said earlier was a good one!

Thanks, I like the mini-trooper idea a lot. Plus, while normal sized guns and such are normally frowned on, ones the size of toy-soldiers will raise far fewer complaints from the more sensitive gamers (*cough*parents*cough*) out there.

I for one think that advanced wars NEEDS to be represented in Brawl! it's an awesome franchise, with a lot of personality. it needs AT LEAST a stage.

I think that Andy would be the best choice for a playable character, since he's arguably the most recognizable. they could do a lot with his move set; he could use that wrench as his main weapon, which would give him a unique way of attacking. his specials would be really interesting. using a parachute or helicopter to recover, machine gun (I don't really count it as a real world weapon, because they could easily make it work unrealistically) or a bazooka, or they could just make some up that would fit him. I also like the idea of him riding in a custom vehicle. that would be a VERY original and interesting character for brawl; and seeing as Andy is a mechanic it fits his character.

if a character doesn't get in as playable, I think that AW should have a LOT of ATs.

Ay, Advance Wars is a fantastic franchise, one of my favorite new series I've gotten into recently too. Nothing like spending a few hours plotting out strategy and trying to plow your enemy into the ground without losing a single unit ^_^


Heck, can you imagine a Story-Mode cut-scene where Snake loses contact with his own squad and ends up talking to Andy on the front lines?

 

[T-major]

Thanks, I like the mini-trooper idea a lot. Plus, while normal sized guns and such are normally frowned on, ones the size of toy-soldiers will raise far fewer complaints from the more sensitive gamers (*cough*parents*cough*) out there.

I like the mini trooper idea too. it's original, and just plain cute. Toy soldiers (which I assume would be custom made by Andy) would make for great special moves.

 

[Space_Pirate_Fox_McCloud]

I for one think that advanced wars NEEDS to be represented in Brawl! it's an awesome franchise, with a lot of personality. it needs AT LEAST a stage.

I think that Andy would be the best choice for a playable character, since he's arguably the most recognizable. they could do a lot with his move set; he could use that wrench as his main weapon, which would give him a unique way of attacking. his specials would be really interesting. using a parachute or helicopter to recover, machine gun (I don't really count it as a real world weapon, because they could easily make it work unrealistically) or a bazooka, or they could just make some up that would fit him. I also like the idea of him riding in a custom vehicle. that would be a VERY original and interesting character for brawl; and seeing as Andy is a mechanic it fits his character.

if a character doesn't get in as playable, I think that AW should have a LOT of ATs.

Don't forget his signature ability, Hyper Repair, too.

 

[Algus Underdunk]

I like the mini trooper idea too. it's original, and just plain cute. Toy soldiers (which I assume would be custom made by Andy) would make for great special moves.

And not just the soldiers! Imagine a little toy helicopter attached to the back of Andy's suspenders, lifting him back to the stage. ^_^

Don't forget his signature ability, Hyper Repair, too.

I considered that possibility :D I came up with a special move for him called "Parts to Spare" in which he just starts whipping spare machine parts left and right (gears, axles, wrenches, etc.) in a fury of projectiles, and afterwards has to pause for a moment to catch his breath :D A great "GET AWAY FROM ME!" move.

 

[Deleted member]

Hehehehhe.

I was thinking of this. Apart from the fact that Hector and Max are identical twins, Fire Emblem and Advance Wars are different enough to be represented. They should definately have a stage, and a few ATs (maybe a giant bomber?).

Andy could be playable, and I'm visualising him, so its certainly possible. Hey, before Pokemon Trainer, nothing like this was!

 

[T-major]

And not just the soldiers! Imagine a little toy helicopter attached to the back of Andy's suspenders, lifting him back to the stage. ^_^

thats sweet! it's things like this that make me support him. he'd be so original!

I considered that possibility :D I came up with a special move for him called "Parts to Spare" in which he just starts whipping spare machine parts left and right (gears, axles, wrenches, etc.) in a fury of projectiles, and afterwards has to pause for a moment to catch his breath :D A great "GET AWAY FROM ME!" move.

I had an idea like this, but I didn't mention it because my version of it was too similar to Peach's Turnip move... yours is much better. :D

also, I came up with a nifty down B. CAPTURE! Andy would salute, then an orange building would spring up from under his feet. anyone close to Andy when it's used would be sent flying upwards! the building can also be used as temporary platform; after a short time it will fall, but you can also attack it to make it go away faster. it can only be used on the ground though.

 

[Caael]

Fe is older than Aw.

And you cant just say that it's got the same game engine, so they will be in. Metroid Prime is an FPS, that means Master Chief is in Brawl. Fox is an animal, that means Crash Bandicoot will be in.

 

[T-major]

Fe is older than Aw.

And you cant just say that it's got the same game engine, so they will be in. Metroid Prime is an FPS, that means Master Chief is in Brawl. Fox is an animal, that means Crash Bandicoot will be in.

were not saying that... well, I'm not at least. Advanced wars is a great an popular series. I believe that it deserves representation. be it a character, a bunch of ATs, or stage, or all of the above; I think it needs something in brawl.

 

[FoxxehRoxxeh]

Hmmm, as much as I like the soldier idea. With Olimar being almost a sure thing. I think Andy just lost some hope

 

[miller483]

Fe is older than Aw.

And you cant just say that it's got the same game engine, so they will be in. Metroid Prime is an FPS, that means Master Chief is in Brawl. Fox is an animal, that means Crash Bandicoot will be in.

Wow, that logic fails. Since when did Star Fox and Crash run on the same engine?

Anyway, given Max's girth, he really doesn't need to use guns, just brute strength. But he could probably use a Mech unit's Bazooka (Given the numerous other explosives in the game) as a projectile. Also, a Battalion Wars stage or AT would be sweet. Also, a remix of this song would be epic win:
(Advance Wars - Max's theme) - http://www.advancewarsnet.com/downloads/aw2music/07%20Max%27s%20Theme.mp3

 

[Xanderous]

Yes, Fire Emblem is a spinoff of ______Wars.

 

[burrito]

I think Andy would make a unique character with a sort of grunt military fighting style.

All of which have been used in other strategy games and/or rpgs and/or tactical rpgs before.

Especially, weapons, items, and health, borrowed from the first rpgs, and the connection with food, gas, and ammo is tenuous at best. Base capturing is just another form of "get/perform the objective", which has been present in every game, ever, from tetris on up, with differing rewards, but always rewards. The whole rock/paper/scissors relationship isn't quite as direct in Advance Wars, and was a concept that existed way before advance wars, since rock/paper scissors. Don't even get me started on strategy games and fog of war.

Then, there are the myrid differences, truthfully they only look similar because they are in very related genres, but compare it to other games in the genres and the connection looks far more tenuous.

Fire Emblem isn't just a strategy RPG, it was the first strategy RPG, it created the genre. So, if you consider that there were no other strategy RPGs at the time, the similarity is pretty big.

Fe is older than Aw.

No, it's already been shown that Famicom Wars is an older franchise than Fire Emblem.

And you cant just say that it's got the same game engine, so they will be in. Metroid Prime is an FPS, that means Master Chief is in Brawl. Fox is an animal, that means Crash Bandicoot will be in.

It's more than that, Caael. Fire Emblem and Famicom Wars were both long lasting game series made by the same company, Intelligent Systems. Fire Emblem was clearly inspired by Famicom Wars, except with RPG elements.

 

[Algus Underdunk]

thats sweet! it's things like this that make me support him. he'd be so original!




I had an idea like this, but I didn't mention it because my version of it was too similar to Peach's Turnip move... yours is much better. :D

also, I came up with a nifty down B. CAPTURE! Andy would salute, then an orange building would spring up from under his feet. anyone close to Andy when it's used would be sent flying upwards! the building can also be used as temporary platform; after a short time it will fall, but you can also attack it to make it go away faster. it can only be used on the ground though.

Right! And it's one of the reasons I love abstract characters so much, because their movesets can be so much more imaginative and creative. Guys like Andy, Captain Olimar, Pokemon Trainer, etc., not characters you'd immediately picture fighting which makes them being characters all that much more exciting :D


And yes, for the record, the Wars series is in fact older than the Fire Emblem series. And both series have marked similarities, which is likely due to the fact that the same group (Intelligent Systems) made both franchises

But hey, why argue over that? They're both great franchises and I'm sure everyone would like another franchise represented in Smash Brothers.

 

[burrito]

Also, a remix of this song would be epic win:
(Advance Wars - Max's theme) - http://www.advancewarsnet.com/downloads/aw2music/07%20Max%27s%20Theme.mp3

Yeah, Advance Wars has a lot of good music in it. Jake's theme would probably be my favorite- Jake's theme

Maybe they could do some sort of Orange Star CO medley.

 

[Caael]

Wow, that logic fails. Since when did Star Fox and Crash run on the same engine?

Anyway, given Max's girth, he really doesn't need to use guns, just brute strength. But he could probably use a Mech unit's Bazooka (Given the numerous other explosives in the game) as a projectile. Also, a Battalion Wars stage or AT would be sweet. Also, a remix of this song would be epic win:
(Advance Wars - Max's theme) - http://www.advancewarsnet.com/downloads/aw2music/07%20Max%27s%20Theme.mp3

I dont have a problem with AW, infact I like the games, but it's just flawed logic.

Crash and Fox dont run on the same engine, but it's similar logic.

 

[Algus Underdunk]

Yeah, Advance Wars has a lot of good music in it. Jake's theme would probably be my favorite- Jake's theme

Maybe they could do some sort of Orange Star CO medley.

I swear I had a dream the other night that showed "This Game's Winner Is: ANDY!"

And the music in the background was this really fast-paced cadence, with someone offscreen yelling, "AND A ONE-TWO HUT!" With Andy snapping a salute as his winning pose.

 

[burrito]

Yeah, that would be awesome.

 

[Oldskool]

They'd make nice assist trophy characters, which is what I'm sure is going to happen to them.

 

[burrito]

I dont have a problem with AW, infact I like the games, but it's just flawed logic.

Crash and Fox dont run on the same engine, but it's similar logic.

It's not the same logic at all, though. As I said earlier, Advance Wars and Fire Emblem have a lot more similarities.

 

[Caael]

So do Fox and Crash.

 

[burrito]

So do Fox and Crash.

What? No, they don't.

Famicom Wars & Fire Emblem
Similarities:
1. Both strategy games made based off the same engine.
2. Made by the same company.
3. Both important parts of the NES era in Japan.
4. Both long running nintendo series.
5. Both were brought to America at about the same time.
6. Fire Emblem was inspired by Famicom Wars, they are "brother and sister games", if you will.
7. Both fairly popular.
Differences:
1. One is set in Mid Evil era, one is set in Modern era
2. Fire Emblem has RPG elements and Famicom Wars is more of a straight strategy game.

Starfox and Crash Bandicoot
Similarities:
1. Both games have characters that are animals.
?????
Differences:
1. They are completely diferent genres.
2. Made by completely different companies, one is an American 3rd party company.
3. Everything else.

 

[Caael]

You do realise I was joking.

 

[burrito]

You do realise I was joking.

I don't really care.

I just want to point out that the logic isn't flawed at all.

 

[Super Smash Master]

Andy needs to hit people with his giant *** wrench. That would be awesome.

 

[Algus Underdunk]

Well, if you rephrase it and site more similarities, instead of just saying they're the same, then it's much easier to tolerate.

But yes, they do work extremely similarly, and are in fact made by the same team, but thankfully it's always obvious as to what you're playing, Wars or Emblem...

Although the similarities inherent would make it much more amusing to see a Wars character face off against an Emblem character. Modern Warfare vs Medieval Warfare.

 

[T-major]

people! stop arguing about AW and FE being similar or not! if you keep that up, this is going to get closed... let's just agree to disagree, and discuss what this thread was made for; talking about Advanced wars in Brawl!

 

[burrito]

people! stop arguing about AW and FE being similar or not! if you keep that up, this is going to get closed... let's just agree to disagree, and discuss what this thread was made for; talking about Advanced wars in Brawl!

There are already plenty of threads to discuss Advanced Wars in Brawl. So, if you just want to talk about that, it's better to go to them, this thread will probably be closed anyway. The point of this thread was to try to explain the possibility of Famicom Wars getting into brawl because of it's similarities.

By the way, what's wrong with debating? That's one of the things that forums are for. Forums would so boring if it weren't for healthy debate. It's not like we were flaming each other or anything.