If Captain Falcon...

[linkoninja]

If Captain Falcon had "The Knee"
in SSB64 what do you think that would do to his tier placing and combos.
Would it help "that!" much?
Or would it just help lol.
Just curious as to what you think

 

[ETWIST51294]

I knew this thread was gonna be about this.

Nah, it would help that much. He's up b already has pretty deadly knockback.

 

[felipe_9595]

if he had knee, he will not have the Fair

 

[linkoninja]

Lol yeah.
What would you replace for the Knee
personally I'd replace his N-AIR
althought that would make executing the Knee a little bit harder.
Maybe just make his Melee moveset his SSB64 moveset
his N-Air could be the two kicks and F-Air be the Knee

 

[DMoogle]

I think he'd *probably* be worse with a knee instead of his current f-air, but it would very much depend on the exact physics of the attack (hitbox, knockback, trajectile angle, damage). I would expect his double-kick to have a much better hitbox than a knee would (in Melee, his double kick is, well, much different). I would think that his knee wouldn't have nearly as much combo potential, and wouldn't help much at all for his standard u-air -> up-B combos.

I agree that if the n-air was a knee, that would probably be better...

It's all very theoretical though.

 

[ballin4life]

His nair and the knee are pretty much the same, just different knockback trajectory really.

 

[asianaussie]

The knee is at least 46 times more epic.

 

[L/A/W]

His nair and the knee are pretty much the same, just different knockback trajectory really.

too lazy to post a facepalm picture
tldr: NO

 

[ballin4life]

too lazy to post a facepalm picture
tldr: NO

Nice tldr for a 2 line post and great explanation

You do realize this is the smash 64 forum right? Falcon's nair is his highest knockback move (yes more than bair), is single hit and can weak hit as well ... just like the knee from melee

 

[The Star King]

I'm assuming that by "highest knockback move", you mean highest knockback aerial, because otherwise that would make no sense. Anyways, Falcon's knee is much more powerful than his 64 nair.

 

[ballin4life]

Yeah I meant highest knockback aerial sorry. And is the difference in knockback between 64 nair and the knee that big? I'm just going by what I remember, but it doesn't seem like that big of a difference, especially if they DI the knee.

In any case the knee is really pretty similar to the 64 nair just with more knockback and lower trajectory.

 

[The Star King]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the knee is much more powerful. The directional DI in Melee helps a bit, but if there was none like in 64 the knee could probably kill at an average of like, 80%.

 

[NixxxoN]

Yeah I meant highest knockback aerial sorry.

Humm i bet the horizontal uair has more knockback than nair.


Edit: 64 Falcon Uair >>> Melee Falcon Knee

But the knee looks cooler

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the knee is much more powerful. The directional DI in Melee helps a bit, but if there was none like in 64 the knee could probably kill at an average of like, 80%.

my view exactly. If Falcon had the knee instead of the f-air (I am basing it off of that, not replacing the n-air). This is specifically a melee one, not the brawl one (as most of his moves are closer to the n64 version).

it would be worst in combos but allow Falcon to kill floaty characters very early (IE Jiggs and KIRBY (his main bad matchup).

 

[mastermoo420]

As much as I love the knee (Lord knows I do), I don't think it'd work in SSB64. I don't even play SSB64, but I can tell that there aren't as many set-ups to the knee as Melee does. That's just what I know from speculation.

And I knew this topic would be about the knee as soon as I saw the topic title, lol.

 

[greenblob]

Assuming that the Knee replaces his sex kick, it could work pretty well. Some possible combos are instead of uair->upB, it could be uair chain or fair into knee and fthrow into knee.

 

[mr yo]

lol, what if kirby could use the "HEAVY MACHINE GUN!" of metal slug....is too difficult to compare two different games...i know the breach between metal slug and ssb64 is not the same that ssb64 with ssbm...

but still...to different games, with different physics...configuration, etc...the extrapolation is SO far away...that is almos impossible to compare with acuracy

but well...discuss these things can still be interesting

 

[asianaussie]

As much as I love the knee (Lord knows I do), I don't think it'd work in SSB64. I don't even play SSB64, but I can tell that there aren't as many set-ups to the knee as Melee does. That's just what I know from speculation.

If there are legit combos leading to Falcon punches (not techchases or edgeguards), I'm pretty sure there are plenty of combos that would lead to knees.

 

[DMoogle]

Well, the knee comes out fast, unlike a PAUNCH. I don't think leading into a knee would be difficult at all, I'm thinking more about how to combo AFTER hitting with a knee.

The weird thing about it is, it would be like an already stale n-air if it isn't sweetspotted (of course, sweetspots don't exist in Smash 64 to the extent that they do in Melee, but if they did...)

 

[rpotts]

Well, the knee comes out fast, unlike a PAUNCH. I don't think leading into a knee would be difficult at all, I'm thinking more about how to combo AFTER hitting with a knee.

The weird thing about it is, it would be like an already stale n-air if it isn't sweetspotted (of course, sweetspots don't exist in Smash 64 to the extent that they do in Melee, but if they did...)

I thought the "sweetspot" of the knee was just the first strong hitbox, followed by a much much weaker hitbox. It's not a sweetspot like Marths tipper s is it?

 

[quote]

I thought the "sweetspot" of the knee was just the first strong hitbox, followed by a much much weaker hitbox. It's not a sweetspot like Marths tipper s is it?

Why do people call it a sweeetspot anyway? Shouldn't they have another name for this?

On another note, having the knee in 64 would change a lot of things. First and foremost, its a significant kill option. Matchups against characters like kirby or jigglypuff and luigi get a lot better because you have a much more manuverable way to take a stock. It also adds a whole new genre of lethal combos.

 

[Battlecow]

"genre" I like that. Not only is smash its own genre of fighting game, Captain Falcon's combos alone contain several genres.

 

[Zatchiel]

I lol'd hard, the Knee is a pretty flashy finisher, but i like his Fair the way it is
Is pretty hefty when it comes to combos, especially since it can lead into itself at low %'s. Knee is a bit overrated by my view :/

 

[rpotts]

I lol'd hard, the Knee is a pretty flashy finisher, but i like his Fair the way it is
Is pretty hefty when it comes to combos, especially since it can lead into itself at low %'s. Knee is a bit overrated by my view :/

i like his Fair the way it is
Is pretty hefty when it comes to combos, especially since it can lead into itself at low %'s. Knee is a bit overrated by my view :/

especially since it can lead into itself at low %'s. Knee is a bit overrated by my view :/

into itself at low %'s. Knee is a bit overrated by my view :/

Knee is a bit overrated by my view :/

Knee is a bit overrated

 

[ballin4life]

Why do people call it a sweeetspot anyway? Shouldn't they have another name for this?

On another note, having the knee in 64 would change a lot of things. First and foremost, its a significant kill option. Matchups against characters like kirby or jigglypuff and luigi get a lot better because you have a much more manuverable way to take a stock. It also adds a whole new genre of lethal combos.

Really? Is it that much better than upb? Especially considering that you can often get an extra uair before up b (but in order to knee you would have to save your second jump)

 

[Zatchiel]

Knee is a bit overrated by my view :/

The red lad, the red. I find Falcon Punch KO's much more satisfying. Yes, who would'nt want a Knee KO to end the game? But i only like it when Falcon says "Yesz" when he does it.

 

[asianaussie]

Seeing as so many things link to Up-B KOs (and Up-B is easy to use oos or spontaneously for a KO), 64 is probably the best place to find said 'yesz' lol

 

[UnholyWeapon]

Well, if he had the knee, he would be just like in ssmb. With the exception of the fsmash and a few other attacks.

 

[rpotts]

Well, if he had the knee, he would be just like in ssmb. With the exception of the fsmash and a few other attacks.

fsmash
dsmash
usmash
uair
nair/fair
dair
dtilt
grab/throws
aerial movement
running speed
gentlemen

they're really nothing alike imo

 

[felipe_9595]

fsmash
dsmash
usmash
uair
nair/fair
dair
dtilt
grab/throws
aerial movement
running speed
gentlemen

they're really nothing alike imo

In the way they look, they are all the same :/

 

[Zatchiel]

In the way they look, they are all the same :/

What Melee are you playing? :l

 

[NixxxoN]

Saying that they're nothing alike is exaggerating it

 

[dch111]

In the way they look, they are all the same :/

In the way they play though, they're massively different.

 

[Battlecow]

Actually, the melee falcon doesn't look the same as the real falcon. Melee's more advanced graphics alone give him a different (if similar) appearance.

 

[Zatchiel]

Saying that they're nothing alike is exaggerating it

I didn't say they were nothing alike :l
But saying they are the same is about the same amount of exaggeration.

In the way they play though, they're massively different.

This.

Actually, the melee falcon doesn't look the same as the real falcon. Melee's more advanced graphics alone give him a different (if similar) appearance.

Yea, he does look like he has a softer appearance in Melee, and i don't think they derived the costume change in Melee with a different F-Zero game since Smash64.
If you didn't catch that, i mean There wasn't a different F-Zero game made between Melee and Smash64, so they went by the same scheme in both, which is why Falcon doesn't have a scarf in Melee, either. (His scarf came from F-Zero Legends, which i believe made it's release in 2004)

 

[rpotts]

Saying that they're nothing alike is exaggerating it

I really don't think they're that similar. Obviously they are somewhat alike, but I don't think I was exaggerating that much. I don't understand felipes posts though. Does he think that all those moves I listed look alike, or are alike in terms of hitboxes/trajectory n stuff. Cause they are different in both looks and physics. Melee Falcons movement alone is enough for me to think they're radically different.

 

[NixxxoN]

Melee Falcon movement is much faster, but overall not so different. Stuff like the uair and the knee are very different, but moves like his falcon kick, up+b, dair, bair, fsmash fpunch and fair (changed into nair) look similar to me.
Their grabs works so different, but its not about Falcon's grabs its about the whole game.

 

[dandan]

excpet that dair actually spikes in 64

 

[asianaussie]

If I'm right it spikes in melee too but the hitbox is small and at his chest.

 

[dch111]

It's a meteor smash. Also, there's annoying delay where he has to lift his feet up before stomping, but I guess you get used to it.

Melee Falcon movement is much faster, but overall not so different. Stuff like the uair and the knee are very different, but moves like his falcon kick, up+b, dair, bair, fsmash fpunch and fair (changed into nair) look similar to me.
Their grabs works so different, but its not about Falcon's grabs its about the whole game.

Melee Falcon is much more of a horizontal moving, low altitude character, depending much more massively on techchases than in 64. The addition of Foward+B helps. Uair and weakened throws changes everything. True, it's not just about his grabs, but about his whole game, but none of those other moves matter as much to his whole game as the grabs, the knee, and uair. Long time stalwart moves like Fair (Nair) and Usmash are hardly as useful or prevalent. The one move that is still used like it is in 64 is Bair.