Ideal Stages for the Lylat Commander

[NotEvenAmatueR]

Hello Fox players. I have noticed that there is no thread on Fox's stage selection, so I have took it upon myself to make said thread. This thread is intended to inform Fox players on what stages they should go to, as to avoid picking the wrong stage that could cost them the game. What are our ideal stages for Fox? For reference, here is the usual stage selection for tournaments. I will add a general consensus for each stage as we go.

Color checklist:

Green- This is a stage that Fox can depend on and will almost always be a good stage choice for optimal play.

Yellow- This is a stage that is neutral for Fox but it can sometimes benefit him depending on the matchup.

White- This is a stage is absolutely neutral for Fox. You are most likely banning this stage because it is your opponent's best stage. (Or, it is the filler color for stages not fully discussed yet.)

Orange- This stage is sometimes bad for Fox but can be neutral depending on the matchup. You may want to ban these stages.

Red- This stage is bad for Fox in most to all matchups, and it is reccomended that you ban these stages.

Stagelist:

Starter:
Battlefield/Miiverse
Final Destination
Smashville

Starter or CounterPick (usually starter):
Town and City
Lylat Cruise

CounterPick:
Dreamland 64
Duck Hunt

CounterPick or Banned (usually banned):
Delfino
Halberd
Castle Seige

I have a poll created for which stage we will discuss first. The choices you have currently are Battlefield, Smashville, and Final Destination since they are practically guranteed to be starter stages. For the next week, feel free to talk about your opinion on any of the legal stages before we decide which starter stage we will discuss. Enjoy the discussion folks!

 

[EpicSonicLatios]

Not sure if this is true for all characters, but I was talking to Arikado in the pokemonshowdown smash room, and he said that on BF, the fox-sheik MU is 50-50, because sheik has a hard time landing. Fox can pull of some crazy combos with the platforms, such as full hop AC dair combos and AC uair combos. For example, if you land a full hop uair on greninja when he is standing on one of the short platforms, you can combo into another full hop uair after landing on the platform, which KILLS greninja at 70%.

In general, I don't think fox has any stage that he truly has to avoid at all costs. However, certain scenarios need to be avoided during a set. If we can identify the best stages of each character, and what stages help us the most, we can weight the risk and reward to determine which stages we should use, shouldn't use, and what stages we should use given specific tendencies of the opponent.

Do you think we could ask the boards of other characters if they wanted to discuss these things? It would help us gain some insight on the strengths and weaknesses of other characters.

 

[NotEvenAmatueR]

Not sure if this is true for all characters, but I was talking to Arikado in the pokemonshowdown smash room, and he said that on BF, the fox-sheik MU is 50-50, because sheik has a hard time landing. Fox can pull of some crazy combos with the platforms, such as full hop AC dair combos and AC uair combos. For example, if you land a full hop uair on greninja when he is standing on one of the short platforms, you can combo into another full hop uair after landing on the platform, which KILLS greninja at 70%.

In general, I don't think fox has any stage that he truly has to avoid at all costs. However, certain scenarios need to be avoided during a set. If we can identify the best stages of each character, and what stages help us the most, we can weight the risk and reward to determine which stages we should use, shouldn't use, and what stages we should use given specific tendencies of the opponent.

Do you think we could ask the boards of other characters if they wanted to discuss these things? It would help us gain some insight on the strengths and weaknesses of other characters.

Of course! I reccomend it in fact. I'm posting an ideal stages thread on all character boards, and discussion inbetween boards can give better perspective.

 

[ZeroJanitor]

I think Battleverse is the best starter for Fox overall, but FD could be better depending on which character the opponent's using. I recall someone on the Fox boards saying that Smashville is a bad starter for Fox because of the narrow blastzones on the sides but I'm not sure.

 

[~Daniee]

Will these discussions be assuming customs are on or off?

 

[NotEvenAmatueR]

Will these discussions be assuming customs are on or off?

Off.

 

[EPM]

I think it'd be good to start with talking about Smashville since it's such a tournament habit to gentlemen's to it for the first match. I do it even though I don't feel it's a great stage for Fox compared to Battlefield or Town & City.

 

[SSTT]

Fox prefers any stage with ascending platforms, so battlefield, dreamland, town and city and duck hunt to an extent, though personally I dislike the animal crossing stages because of the platform shenanigans and the stages being very narrow in general, fox can die as early as 70% and he himself doesn't boast much horizontal kill power.

 

[EPM]

Really? I think Duck Hunt might be Fox's worst stage. High cieling and tiny sideways blast zones that fox can't really take advantage of unless you land an f-smash (idk about you but I go for/ land one like every five games at best, it's a pretty bad (Fox's worst?) move). Platform shenanigans aren't fun to get done by but Fox tends to be the one doing the doing there, with up air chaining into up air or up tilt very often when you have a platform to land on.

Here's how I see Fox's stage options from best to worst
T&C
Battlefield
Smashville
Dreamland
FD
Lylat
Duck Hunt
At least in general. It's matchup dependent in some cases, FD is the best bet against Mario, for instance, if he refreshes an up air chain on you with a platform, you might die.

 

[colinies]

I've invested pretty heavily in stage theory because I think so many players don't and its a great advantage. Most of Fox's stage options are very MU dependent because, in reality, he doesn't have a ban worthy stage. I usually shoot for BF just because the platforms lead to nice Uair strings and give a recovery option with illusion. Now, let's dive deeper.

For a few MU's, here's my thought process when striking for example:

I always try to avoid going to FD vs. Mario. His biggest advantage in this MU is his edge guarding and going to FD gives us no recovery options besides purely going to the edge with can be easily snuffed out. I understand the danger of Uair strings on platforms of BF but honestly, those only work if he has super high rage and plus we have our own Uair strings on that stage with better damage output. USE BATTLEFIELDS PLATFORMS FOR RECOVERY MIXUPS!!! If they are over committing to the ledge, illusion to the platform! That way, if you do go to the edge they wont commit as hard. As far as the other's go, I usually try to CP Duck Hunt due to the tree and the long horizontal blast zones to avoid getting killed so early by b-throw.

As you should know by know, don't let Sheik take you to Smashville, and don't take Sheik to Smashville. Our best stage vs Sheik is Battlefield, she can have a hard time landing because we're fast enough to stay under her and pressure with Uair's on platforms.

VS Sonic, I like to go to FD or Smashville. Because he has such a hard to landing, I like the big open space to punish landings. Although, I don't think we have any bad stages vs him besides maybe Lylat.

Just like Sheik, never let Ness take you to Smashville. If he gets a grab on that platform, you can die SUPER early. I would apply the same logic to T&C. Battlefield is good vs. Ness, and I also like Duckhunt because of the long horizontal blast zones to make b-throw a little less effective.



Ultimately, I think Fox's best stage hands down is Battlefield. Feel free to contest anything you disagree with or add onto stuff I've said! I think the stage meta is SUPER under looked in this game because of the laziness of people that just start Smashville no matter what, don't be that guy.