(Idea) FS Meter for style?

[b2jammer]

The way the FS Meter is currently implemented in Ultimate doesn't have a lot of depth to it - you deal and take damage until it eventually fills, then just use the Final Smash, and it doesn't help that Final Smashes themselves are still poorly balanced. Others have suggested using the meter for other purposes (such as a universal combo breaker), but I think another idea would be to charge the meter in different ways.

Right now, Special Zoom doesn't really add anything besides raw visual spectacle, but perhaps moves that trigger it could build the meter at a much higher rate (2x, 3x, maybe even higher), which for moves like Falcon Punch or Skewer could encourage risky plays without simply cranking up their damage output or making them easier to use.

Taunts could build up meter as well if they're allowed to complete (or at least go beyond their cancel window). This would give a secondary use to taunts themselves as well as to taunt canceling (if the user threw one out at a bad time and wanted to avoid punishment, at the expense of losing out on the meter gain). It would also be a convenient excuse to allow taunts on Quickplay again, which would admittedly be a blessing and a curse.

I doubt it will happen, but with the recent 4.0.0 patch adding a time limit, the devs seem willing to tweak the meter's mechanics, so it's possible. Thoughts?

 

[Quillion]

I've been throwing around the idea that in addition to the FS meter, there could be a Super/EX Special meter that fills up largely the same way.

Final Smashes are a bit too wild to be balanced for serious competitive, but I believe in the potential of EX Specials filling that niche better, as they would simply be souped-up versions of specials that already exist.

Yes, it would be similar to Cloud's Limit mechanic. That's why I'd like to see it universalized, albeit with a separate button for EX Specials.

 

[Xelrog]

The main reason it's not used in competitive is because having a Final Smash just turns into a game of cat and mouse. Before there was no countermeasure, now you can run out the timer--which still isn't fun for either the players or the spectators. And it's perfectly fine in its current iteration for party play.

I don't think anything short of a complete overhaul would prove fruitful with the thing. Frankly I'm just as happy without it.

 

[b2jammer]

I've been throwing around the idea that in addition to the FS meter, there could be a Super/EX Special meter that fills up largely the same way.

Final Smashes are a bit too wild to be balanced for serious competitive, but I believe in the potential of EX Specials filling that niche better, as they would simply be souped-up versions of specials that already exist.

Yes, it would be similar to Cloud's Limit mechanic. That's why I'd like to see it universalized, albeit with a separate button for EX Specials.

I like the idea, but a) either Cloud wouldn't really stand out or he would have up to 3 meters (Limit, FS, and EX), and b) adding a dedicated button to a feature that probably wouldn't be used very often seems a bit counter to Smash's deep-but-approachable philosophy.

The main reason it's not used in competitive is because having a Final Smash just turns into a game of cat and mouse. Before there was no countermeasure, now you can run out the timer--which still isn't fun for either the players or the spectators. And it's perfectly fine in its current iteration for party play.

I don't think anything short of a complete overhaul would prove fruitful with the thing. Frankly I'm just as happy without it.

And I agree that this is the big problem, that most Final Smashes require crazy hard reads to avoid, for the few where doing so is even possible. Some FS's (Zelda, Peach, probably Bayo) would have to be significantly rebalanced no matter what, and the slowdown effect for most of them should be taken out too (for the meter version at least).

I'm fine playing without the meter as well, but it feels like a missed opportunity. Maybe I'm just naive, but I don't agree that the FS Meter is doomed to fail without a complete overhaul, and believe it can work just fine competitively with the right tweaks. I've heard other suggestions like losing meter (or at least not filling it as quickly) for taking damage and gaining meter for blocking attacks, which would at least be some improvement to the current system; I'm just suggesting other ideas that would also help encourage using attacks that otherwise don't see regular play.

 

[Quillion]

I like the idea, but a) either Cloud wouldn't really stand out or he would have up to 3 meters (Limit, FS, and EX), and b) adding a dedicated button to a feature that probably wouldn't be used very often seems a bit counter to Smash's deep-but-approachable philosophy.

If Young Link can stand out from the other Links, Cloud being a heavy sword user with good mobility will make him unique just fine. We don't need gimmicks to make newer characters unique. He can even be the only one who can charge his EX meter.

 

[JiggyNinja]

The main reason it's not used in competitive is because having a Final Smash just turns into a game of cat and mouse. Before there was no countermeasure, now you can run out the timer--which still isn't fun for either the players or the spectators. And it's perfectly fine in its current iteration for party play.

I don't think anything short of a complete overhaul would prove fruitful with the thing. Frankly I'm just as happy without it.

Making them shieldable would go a long way towards reducing their power and making them more like a normal super move instead of unavoidable bull**** they are right now. There are only a few of them that can be avoidable on reaction (Spot-dodging in a great way to survive against Jirachi and Wario-Man on the Spirit Board), some of them like Zelda's are just cheap and not fun to play against or even use.

 

[Quillion]

Making them shieldable would go a long way towards reducing their power and making them more like a normal super move instead of unavoidable bull**** they are right now. There are only a few of them that can be avoidable on reaction (Spot-dodging in a great way to survive against Jirachi and Wario-Man on the Spirit Board), some of them like Zelda's are just cheap and not fun to play against or even use.

Being wild and different is part of the fun of Final Smashes though. This is why I'd rather have powered up specials for competitive-friendly super moves in addition to Final Smashes. It would stop the series from being mechanically stagnant as well.