Icies/Puff - HOW IS THIS MATCHUP GOOD?!

[S2rulL]

So there's this Puff player in my region of the UK and here's the problem:

He's one of the most patient players I've ever played in my entire life. He is more than willing to just stay in the air and then just come down with a SideB or a bair and it ALWAYS splits the Icies up. Even when I go for an UpSmash or an UpTilt, he can just beat it out with a bair, nair or fair.

It might just be me failing to deal with the matchup in the correct way or not being patient enough, I don't know. But even when I go for stuff that supposedly makes the matchup more favourable for the Icies (e.g. spot dodge desync, disjointed hitboxes, etc.), he can just stay in the air and just avoid everything.

Seriously, as an ex-Puff main: F***. Puff.

 

[DerfMidWest]

you're just getting outplayed man.
punish those sibeBs like a muh ****.

I actually got really tripped up by a puff player I faced in tourney today, he was real oldschool and I wasn't used to his style (a lot more sibeB and fsmashes in neutral than I was ready for)
but just CC the sideBs and grab. Ezpz. Puff's sideB is an odd mixup, but it should almost never work.

I really like belay desync blizzards against puff if she tries to bair my shield and fade back.

getting under her and uairing is pretty good too, use waveshields to throw off her spacing.

If you are facing the other way, bairs OoS are good.

watch your shield, because if she notices it getting low, she'll pound it, but pound has slowish startup, so if you're looking for it, you can spotdodge or roll out of the way, its a really laggy garbage move, so it's w/e.

Just remember, puff can't stay in the air forever. And she falls slow as balls.
I really like to keep her in the air and then punish her for landing. the only thing you have to watch is her jank fsmash, because that thing is dangerous.

But anyway, it sounds like you have a real patience problem and are throwing out a lot of attacks in neutral.
try to not use laggy moves like your smashes unless you know for a fact that they will connect.
because he's definitely just baiting the hell out of you.


Seriously though, just watch Fly and Wobbles and Chudat against hbox.
I think Chu demonstrates very simply what you should do. It's a very flow-charty MU.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Chu is the best ICs to watch against Puff. I think he has the best understanding of the match-up of any ICs player.

 

[SHIP]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbBrr4TQ6yM

Pretty much the only example of it that I could find from within the last 3 years. Note that in neutral Chudat uses mainly grab, back air and wavedash jab in neutral. Lots of wavedash into and out of shield.
Also at 1:57 or so Chudat dashdances close enough to allow him to get underneath puff if he goes higher than a shorthop.
Dash away to wavedash back fsmash got a lot of mileage here too so maybe working a bit of that into your game every now and then will get you some easy kills.

 

[Vanitas]

I thought Wobbles performed very well against Hbox at EVO 2013. One advantage I seem to find is that camping blizzards and ice blocks is very efficient in forcing Jigglypuff to approach as she does not have any projectiles. Being too aggressive I find, makes you lose the match, so a defensive option is more suitable.

Derf MW brings a good point; Puff will have to land eventually. If you can read when she is about to land again, chase her down with jab to grab or bairs.

Contrary to what the commentators were saying in the video SHIP posted...Sopo CAN do some decent grab combos on Puff.
If you can read that if they are DI'ing away, sometimes a bthrow to turn around full hop Fair can work. OR a dthrow to a full hop forward fair can work.
If they are DI'ing in, a Dthrow to good ole bair works wonders and will kill at higher percents.

 

[DerfMidWest]

every IC preforms well against hbox, tbh.
he's a great player, but he really struggles with the mu.

 

[S2rulL]

Right, I gotta face a Puff main at my region's monthly tournament on Sunday. Wish me luck!!!