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Ice Climbers = :(

Wilhelmina Carmel

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 24, 2008
Messages
21
Location
Massachusetts
Ok, well, I love Lucas, and I use him as my main. I guess I'm decent with him and after reading the stickies, I think I've gotten... more decent.

I also have this friend, she uses I.Climbers and Peach as her mains. I ALWAYS lose against her, and I have no idea why. I haven't looked anything up on them, but I'm guessing their attacks prioritize more? But, anywho, does anyone have advice with these matches? I try to stay at a far enough range, but, I phail at life, so obviously it doesn't work for me.

If I made a mistake in posting this, then just delete it. xD;

o frist post heer guyz hai

Video...? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-RXPsqj2ic
 

Tyr_03

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Messages
2,805
Location
OH
Don't ever get grabbed by the Ice Climbers because they can CG you to death. PK Fire spam works pretty well against both of them too. Lucas's aerials don't have great priority for the most part so you might do better if you keep a lot of your fighting on the ground. Lucas's jabs and tilts are all amazingly good. Peach can be pretty hard to edgeguard with PK Thunder because she can recover so high but the Ice Climbers you can destroy with it. If nothing else just aim for taking out Nana while they're off the edge.
 

TechnoMonster

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 9, 2008
Messages
836
Ice-climbers are pretty tricky, they have a lot of priority and very little lag. You can try a few walking f-tilts (just f-tilt, walk up, f-tilt) to throw them off, and try to land your u-smash at 80 or so for the cheese. PK fire is ok, and you can reflect ice blocks (not really useful but it gets the match going) with stick. N-air to u-tilt can separate them as well.
 

prOAPC

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
1,816
Location
Cartagena/Bogotá - Colombia
use random down smashes, ice climbers like to grab the enemy so a good technique i use is to spam like 2 or 3 PK Fire with wavebounce and then a down smash, it always work, the PK Fire will annoy them, and try to grab you to stop the spam, but they find themself in front of the down smash
 

Fishcake56

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 6, 2008
Messages
50
Location
Tampa, FL
If at all possible, try to recover from off the stage above the horizontal. Icecube spam can wreck pkt2 recoveries.
 

brawlpwnge

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
9
lucas rox

stick w/lucas i pwn my freind that uses ice climbers:laugh: also u can use the side smash to reflect blizzard if timed right:chuckle:
 

Powda

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 20, 2007
Messages
154
Location
Vegas
Fundamentals. Air dodging, side stepping, and shields. Practice practice practice these moves and you will beat your friend.
 

Ebonyks

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 26, 2007
Messages
160
Location
Puerto Rico
The ice climbers can be tricky to fight against, but a few tips can turn the tides in your favor.

Spacing is extremely important to prevent getting grabbed, using your f-tilt defensively is a great way to avoid their chaingrab combos.

The ice cubes are annoying, they can whip them out faster than you can pk-fire, and they can't be absorbed with the magnet. When they start shooting ice cubes, it's time to attack from the air, typically using n-air or f-air.

Blizzard can be absorbed with your magnet shield for a huge health recovery. Use this whenever possible.

The IC's are among the easiest characters in the game to hit with the u-smash, particularly if they miss an u-b from above. They have limited horizontal DI, so keep an eye out for these oppertunities, they're easy to punish.

The squall hammer is the IC's best approach. It out prioritizes virtually every attack you have. The best way to defend against it is to use a b-stick'ed PK fire if you see it coming from far away. If not, shield it, as it's difficult to side-step or dodge, and punish the lag after the move.

Try to kill off nana as quickly as possible, n-air to u-tilt is enough to divide them, and from there f-airs are great for pushing her away. B-air spikes work wonderfully too, if you've got the spacing down to nail them.

That covers the basics of fighting against the IC's, let me know if you have any other questions.
 

Levitas

the moon
Joined
Jul 20, 2007
Messages
5,734
Location
Ann Arbor, MI
Note that you can grab IC's from outside their hammer range.

When you see an opening (you've got to be rather close), jump in with a Short hopped nair. It's pretty good.

PK fire is decent against ICs, but peach can just float over it.

Dsmash for an edgeguard if you think their up b is going to tether the edge (which should be almost always), and it should wreck them due to the nature of tether-edge grabbing and when characters gain invincibility.

Don't get hit.

Are you doing ok with the peach, or do you want some help there, too?
 

Wilhelmina Carmel

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 24, 2008
Messages
21
Location
Massachusetts
Note that you can grab IC's from outside their hammer range.

Are you doing ok with the peach, or do you want some help there, too?
Yeah, I'm getting better against Peach, since she's very predictable (using Peach bomber when we're in the air, u smash when I'm coming on top of her...)

Thank you and everyone, though. I want to get a video of us soon, though, to see what I can improve on and whatnot.
 

UnderWing

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
197
Location
SoCal -- San Diego
I've got a fair amount of experience with fighting IC's (my main practice partner is an IC beast), but I've just now started using Lucas (I'm a Toon Link main). What has been said is exceedingly important -- Don't. Get. Grabbed. That's really your first step, as the chain grab is just absolutely lethal.

To address ice block spam, I recommend getting used to quick shorthops with projectile counterattacks in between -- this is PK Fire for Lucas. If you time it right, and space yourself well, you can hop barely over the two blocks (or even three or more, depending on placement and if the IC player is desyncing them), and shoot off a pk fire in the air at a level barely over the height of a complete ice block. I've had some luck with this, as once I got the timing down I can shut down the spam, and move in for an aerial combo. Depending on your friend's playstyle, you really want to avoid running head on (or jumping, rather) into them when they're ice blocking -- they'll hit you with a blizzard. However, a good way to mindgame them out of this is to predict this happening, and space yourself with the magnet coming in -- you can absorb some of the blizzard, and if you've spaced perfectly, you can let go and hit them with the "pop" (or w/ever you call that). This can lead to combos or separation.

Separating the IC's can be a pain, and once they're separated, most people don't know what to do with them. You have to remember that Nana, while stupid (the comp control is really not intelligent) is not entirely out of the player's control -- It's possible, depending on how the desync happened, for the player to use Nana to grab you or dodge your attacks, even when Popo's accross the map. This is something you need to look out for, because at high enough percentages it can lead to a chain-grab smash (one holds, other charges). Your danger zone (where a single charged upsmash will almost certainly kill you) is about 80-90%. To take care of Nana when she's away, try hitting her with a PK Fire (if Popo won't punish), or a longer aerial (nair seems good). The player may be able to time the airdodge, but it'll be harder with a longer duration move... especially if you sync up with her so you fall next to her. Keeping them separated isn't a guaranteed win, but it'll make a lot of the strategies that they use not work. If Nana's off the stage, you can be a little more aggressive with Popo, not worrying about chain grabs. IC players have to keep track of two characters, and they can almost never perfect shield an AOE attack -- Nana's got a lag to when she shields and dodges, so they have to shield early. Take advantage of that too -- If you can, the d-smash is absolutely amazing. Try to manipulate them into going for a grab or rolling towards you, and pull it out. Even if Popo shields, Nana's almost certainly getting hit.

And of course, remember -- Nana's got a separate damage %... She'll often go flying further than Popo, so abuse this fact and go for Popo in the air.

As for other approaches, try short hopping the dair right above their heads, and short hopping nair at their backs (if you can, DI back the way you came, as it's harder to grab you if you're moving unpredictably).

Good luck!

PS: You may want to check out some of the matches with ICYDP in my Youtube account (linked in sig), that's the IC player I play against. None of them were great matches (we were all kinda screwing around the day we recorded), and I don't think there are any Lucas v IC matches up, but you can analyze different characters approaches and see what works/doesn't work. IC's are a tricky bunch to lay against, so just keep at it!
 

Powda

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 20, 2007
Messages
154
Location
Vegas
Honestly I found if you do everything you can to stay away from ics grab you will win. The second they start chain grabbing em, get rdy for the cloud.

I don't know how your friend plays but alot of ICs will Jump to ice cubes. I always use this as an opp to run under them and uair or shield to nair etc. It scares em from doing the jump cube thing which gives you more opps for air game.

I haven't played alot of ics, only those on GB.
 

Trozz

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
Messages
611
Location
Canada, BC
ICs are not really that much of a threat in online play; 0-death grabs are pretty much impossible with online lag. In a tournament setting, ICs are much more of a threat. Fortunately, Lucas can escape their grabs easier then some characters.

I don't know if throws are practical or not. Obviously you don't want to headbutt pummel, but if you grab a climber and b-throw them, you can seperate them from each other effectively. If you miss the rope snake grab, you're pretty much screwed. You're also screwed if they react fast enough to bust your throw. Maybe sticking with SH'd PK Fire or SHFF aerials are safer.

On tactics vs ICs, what about full jump d-air? The idea is you bait them to using the up-b spike so you can evade and counter it. If that fails, you can probably hit them with a b-air or just land safely. I play too much online to really know how to play with/against ICs.
 
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