Ice Climbers how I hate you!

[Driz]

Finally started playing again after a summer of very little smash and Im now playing almost everyday. I met some new/decent players one of my own play level. Hes not extremely technical but hes got good mindgames and worst of all he mains the ice climbers! I haven't had much practice against the ice climbers but I tend to win everyonce ina while probably about half the time due to lucky dairs and smashes but it never feels like I just owned hima nd was able to get a strong advantage. My biggest problem is chaingrabs! I hate the ice climbers for this reasona dn for whatever reason I can't fastfall into a shield I cant seem to get the timing although I keep trying. I've looked through some of the Falco guides and got some decent Ideas of how to give my self a slight edge. but I still dont have the uperhand

MY POINT-
I need some help wtih how to destroy the ice climbers and there chain grabbing. And if someone could give me tips on dairing into a sheild not to get grabbed I would appreciate it my falcos gotvery good tech skill, not Foward/Shiz worthy but definetely Tournament worthy so I do ok but theres just a few holes left in my game that I need help patching and I've been playing for a year and Smashboards has always been there to help espacially when going from a ground lasering fsmashing Falco to a shine comboing EHDLing R/SHLing pretty decent Falco.

Plz realize I have searched a moderate amount of the Falco threads for advice on this but havent found anything that works for me so any personal experience vs Icys that someone has I would love to hear about and although theres alot of pillaring thread ne little ricks Falco mains out there use to better time the FFDair into a shield could help

Thanks Guys/Girls, DRIZ

 

[choknater]

i don't main falco, i main ice climbers. also, i am popular for ****** falcos ^_^ maybe i can help.

basically you have to avoid the grab at all costs. the best way for me to kill falcos is to destroy him with a single grab. no funny business with grab combos, just pure cging/wobbling/gimping for the kill. so don't get grabbed: the ic will be trying to grab you at all costs. (if they aren't, then they are putting themselves at a disadvantage.) and that doesn't mean they will just be turtling/evading until they can grab. ic's are a superbly mobile character on the ground so use the aerials and platforms to your advantage.

it's not impossible to beat ic's on final destination, but it's very tough. i saw falcomist beat chudat in the crew battle at 0c3 and it was pretty cool to watch. falcomist was playing and chudat looked off/not warmed up at his grabbing. regardless, it was a super close match. the trick to beating ic with falco is spamming JUST ENOUGH (not too much) lasers and using shines, tilts, and forward throws to separate them.

once they are separated, they are pretty much combo meat. don't get too reckless with the combos: you still need to avoid being grabbed. popo has various 0-death stuff too, or he can also dthrow/uthrow-dash attack chain grab once and by the time he regrabs, nana will be with him. and then you're dead.

also: practice l-canceling against them. two characters = double the hitstun, so your timing can be thrown off. with the double shield (one light shield, one small shield) trick, your timing can be thrown WAAAY off. there are two ways to remedy this: do the dair really late and hit both shields at the same time so that you can l-cancel (it also helps to fast fall before the dair.) another way is to do the bombsoldier dair... dair really high so that you use the later part of the dair (the softer hit) so theres slightly less hitstun. you should be fast falling by the time you hit so you can l-cancel.

i explained that thoroughly because l-cancelling against them is very difficult and very important! if you don't, you can get grabbed, plain and simple. if you get grabbed against a competent ic, you die. if you survive, be thankful that you di'd in a way that they didn't want you to di, or that they messed up.

i beat forward once (on my third try >_>) but once i got used to it, it just felt like every other fast falco. falcos with a lot of mindgames are actually harder. they tend to play slower and grab/fsmash a lot, so you might wanna try mindgaming the ic instead of rushing him, because falco's rush is too easy to punish with ic. then rush when they are separated.

useful combo: laser to fthrow. totally safe. anti shield grabs.

my 2 cents

edit: i don't know why i'm helping falcos to beat me :'C

 

[Lixivium]

If you can't D-air their shield safely then don't do it. Use safer approaches like the SHL -> f-throw, well-spaced F-smashes, and tilts.

 

[Driz]

Thanks for the advice espacially Choknater, Lol IC main helping Falco beat them. I think Ive been daring too soon and not taking the two shields into full acount, I did realize it was harder to do timing wise but I believe I was assuming it was a small difference when it sounds now like a big one. And my friend is good at chani grabbing but doesnt usually kill me out of early grabs which is why I can and have recently won on FD although I never felt like I was in control of the match. Ill take into account all your advice and thanks again. although thats was a great post Im still open to other comments so just let me know.

and Lix my only problem is that Dair/Nair/Bair is so useful to just not use it takes alot of the edge I can have so by just working on it even if it costs me some friendlies Ill eventually get better and be able to D.B.Nair him

 

[Lixivium]

You can still N/B/D-air him, especially the B-air, but not DIRECTLY INTO THE SHIELD. Play a good Bowser/Samus and you should learn quickly not to blindly SHFFL into shields; surely you can do the same with IC's. Do it for the practice if you want, but when you're playing to win (in a tourney, for instance), don't do things that are obviously bad.

 

[GamerGuitarist7]

i use fox against ice climbers, because honestly it's a very tough match-up for falco and much easier for fox since he can just shine gimp on nana or something instead of having to combo or dair her. i'm pretty sure i have an ice climbers portion in the character match-ups guide. but one tip i do know that i can give right now is if they're dair chaingrabbing you, the way to DI out of it (which makes it impossible for them to CG you for both spacies) is to regular DI (control stick) down/away and to ASDI (C-stick) straight away from them.

 

[TheZhuKeeper]

or you can just pick up falcon. easier spacing / combos and **** xD.

and figure out how to pillar ice climbers, because most ice climbers are gonna bet on the falco not being able to l cancel and ****. if not, instead of using shine, use jab after an aerial because it's better spacing and easier to do. it prevents shieldgrab just as well (if not better) than shine, it just doesn't lead into anything.

and choc i completely forgot that doing a really early aerial can be good cause the after hit causes falco less stun lag when hitting a shield. very interesting xD. i know bombsoldier and other falcos (unintentionally though) use an early dair with double jumps but hmm.... interesting =]

 

[captainlukey]

as for dairing into an opponants shield, dair into the sheild, l cancel then shine... stops sheldgrabbers..

one that works well on them (IC's) at low percents would be dair, shine, double jump, dair uptilt (works on most floaties...
hope that helps driz... my girlfriend (when she used to play) was an ice climbers main...
she owned me and my friends on a daily basis... shocking huh

 

[Aldwyn McCloud]

wasn't there another topic to discuss Falco VS Ice Climbers??