Ice Climbers hate

[sfox8]

Can someone explain to me what all the hate for ICs is about? They seem to be very unpopular among players outside of the actual IC mainers. I really don't see what the problem is with them. They're the most unique character in Melee and it's not like they're cheap because you have to be skilled in order to use both character to their full advantage. That's what makes ICs (and the people who main them) so special in my own honest opinion. The fact that JUST because they are two characters in one, doesn't make them any easier to play. If anything, it actually makes them a lot harder to master. It's very hard keeping track of two characters during a hectic 4 player battle.

Every character has something great and unique about them that forces the player to work to master them.

So, all the people who don't play as ICs or dislike them: could you please let me know your reasons for feeling that way? Whenever I see someone talking negative about ICs, there's never a reason. It's just "they suck." "they're cheap." "two characters isn't fair." "d*mn i can't believe they're back for Brawl."

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and there's no character that "just plain sucks" so that's not a reason.

So please, no flaming.

 

[shellblade]

I never mained the ICs but I never hated them. In fact I like them, and apparently so does Sakurai =D

 

[sfox8]

I never mained the ICs but I never hated them. In fact I like them, and apparently so does Sakurai =D

heh. fair enough. in the end that's all that matters, I suppose.

 

[Chrisiscool]

Zzzz

? most people would agree that the ice climbers are just cheap. its hard to explain. the ice climber games are the most unpopular series of games compared to any1 else in melee. majority of gamers didnt know who they were until 2001. and then we played them and they were actually unique..... and then later on as competitive play emerges and more advance techniques arise there popularity drops further because of their drawn out repetitive grab combos and useless B moves. there uniqueness was found to be more of annoyance, two babies running around chasing eachother. They have limited enjoyability to the majority of players. There actions are just not cool enough by most. but, there is a number of people who like them and feel they are cute thats why the are returning. just remember by 2009 75% of brawl owners will rarely play them seriously... "IMO" i was supprozed they made it in. i guess japan likes them more than the rest of the world...

 

[Turbo Grafx-16]

IC's are pretty much how I feel about Smash, they are original and refreshing and fun and very odd... so hating them is... smashphemy?

 

[OnyxVulpine]

I didn't like how they felt. I don't despise them personally and want them to be booted out of the game.

But I just didn't like how they played compared to how I play I guess. I bet a couple of them will beat me down on Wi-Fi though.

-Onyx

 

[sfox8]

? most people would agree that the ice climbers are just cheap. its hard to explain. the ice climber games are the most unpopular series of games compared to any1 else in melee. majority of gamers didnt know who they were until 2001. and then we played them and they were actually unique..... and then later on as competitive play emerges and more advance techniques arise there popularity drops further because of their drawn out repetitive grab combos and useless B moves. there uniqueness was found to be more of annoyance, two babies running around chasing eachother. They have limited enjoyability to the majority of players. There actions are just not cool enough by most. but, there is a number of people who like them and feel they are cute thats why the are returning. just remember by 2009 75% of brawl owners will rarely play them seriously... "IMO" i was supprozed they made it in. i guess japan likes them more than the rest of the world...

This is an example of the narrow-mindedness that I see all the time. People say this about other characters as well. People say that about Kirby, Ness, etc. I fail to see how they are "cheap" in any way. As I said already, the fact that there are two of them forces the player to learn how to keep control over both and pay attention more to what's going on around them. You haven't mentioned what parts of the ICs justify their classification as "cheap" in your opinion. I don't see any characters as right out "cheap." If one cannot use the character, they immediately get classified as "cheap" or "useless." The ICs have many useful techniques and desyncing is one amazing technique that, if mastered can allow for a lot of different combos. Is that "cheap"? I wouldn't say so.

Also regarding their grabs, they may have "repetitive" grab combos, but so do many other characters. They also have an amazing infinite grab. That's definitely not "cheap." It's simply a technique that any advanced player can learn. They have just as many useful b moves as Kirby or any other character of the low or middle tier. Squall Hammer can even be used as an alternate recovery move.

These are the things that I see all the time and yet nobody can give valid reasons for why the ICs supposedly are the worst character and suck too much to be allowed to return to Brawl. I'm not saying you aren't good at using them (for all I know, you could have been an IC mainer at one point), but there's a huge difference between not being able to use a character to their full ability and the character just plain "sucking."

 

[omfgomfg]

3 paragraphs

this is an example of a person who wishes to exemplify the ICs

 

[sfox8]

this is an example of a person who wishes to exemplify the ICs

And this is an example of a person who likes to spam and wants to create drama where none is needed. Seriously, if you don't have anything useful to contribute, then why try and make someone else look dumb (and obviously fail)? I'm thankful that Chrisiscool and the other were able to reply in an intelligent manner, and that's all I asked for. Flaming and spamming is not necessary.

And sorry but, I hope you were being sarcastic because your use of "exemplify" really doesn't even make any sense.

 

[The Noob Legend]

I main Sheik and Ice Climbers.

My friends say I'm a fast Sheik, but if I practice IC techniques, I could be one of the greatest in Canada.

Ice Climbers down A on Fountain of Dreams vs. a Falco player.
Win.

 

[sfox8]

I main Sheik and Ice Climbers.

My friends say I'm a fast Sheik, but if I practice IC techniques, I could be one of the greatest in Canada.

Ice Climbers down A on Fountain of Dreams vs. a Falco player.
Win.

haha definitely. Next to Link's up B, IC's down A is one of my favorite "gtfb (get the f*** back)" moves in the game. It's so fun to go into a crowd of players and see them all go flying after using that move.
Yet another IC perk.

And congrats on being a great IC and Shiek user. I like using Shiek, but I can't make effective use of her moves so she's not really my thing, but I use her for fun when I'm with my friends. She's awesome though. If you're really that good with ICs then I'd definitely love to see some spectator matches of yours for Brawl. :D

 

[turtle roll]

well, i main link and was looking 4 a good second, so eventualy i tried them. and after some good pracitice i was ok with them. in the good, way not the, " *snort* i was just OK *snort*" and the moral is if you just work with them you can do good.

 

[choknater]

generally people think they are cheap because they are two of them

however cheap = good, IMO. heh, heh, heh

 

[sfox8]

generally people think they are cheap because they are two of them

however cheap = good, IMO. heh, heh, heh

heh, yes in many cases it does.

There's really no such thing as "cheap" in Smash Bros. (unless it happens to be a glitch or something that shouldn't be included in the gameplay) Every character has their ups and downs and their own abilities that will help them excel over other characters. That's not "cheap" that's strategy.

 

[aruby14]

I love the Ice Climbers I dont really main them but i do pretty well when i do play them I have to admit that they are not very popular, but bias aside they are a real refreshing look to Melee's lineup and a welcome addition to Brawl

 

[Lipucd]

My only dislike of them is that glitch...Otherwise they are indeed a unique and great add-on to brawl!

In a sense they represent what Smash is going for, A unique fighting game that follows its own rules and not say street fighter. Mind you my playing style is as such that I stink with these two but I am indeed glad they are coming back for this installment.

 

[afterlife]

hmm....

it's probably the fact that they "feel" weird to play as...
so people don't use them
when they get own'd by a good IC player they consider them cheap.

I don't like the way they feel either, but I'm not going to call them cheap.

I just think if grabbing is the only combos for the IC's, they shouldn't be in....

It's super SMASH bros brawl, not super grab bros brawl...............

 

[sfox8]

it's probably the fact that they "feel" weird to play as...
so people don't use them
when they get own'd by a good IC player they consider them cheap.

I don't like the way they feel either, but I'm not going to call them cheap.

I just think if grabbing is the only combos for the IC's, they shouldn't be in....

It's super SMASH bros brawl, not super grab bros brawl...............

Yeah they feel weird at first, but once you use them more often, it comes second nature.

They have many more combos than just chain grabbing. As I mentioned before, desyncing introduces even MORE possible combos, on top of the ones they already have. They're like any other character. You just have to get used to and practice with them to have a fun experience. I feel the same way when I try to pick up another character that I rarely play as and use them without any previous practicing. It feels awkward and unresponsive. I find myself trying to do things with another character that I can only do with ICs, Kirby or Shiek or something.

And as far as that glitch goes, well... it's just that. A glitch. It's not meant to be part of the game and I'm pretty sure it won't be in Brawl. I've personally never even used it in any match with my friends. First off, it's just too much of a hassle to do, and secondly, I can never remember how to do it anyway. Plus, it's not really fair to use a glitch to win a match.

 

[Panduh]

It was because they were SO **** cool, and no one could beat them :D

 

[T3h Kaiser]

I don't understand this thread. While I'm all for some Ice Climber loving, what are you trying to do here? You ask for peoples reasons why they hate the Ice Climbers, and then tell say "no, that's not right, and here's why". You're disagreeing with every point made in the thread. How can you come to an understanding that way?

I think that might have been what Omfgomfg's rather terse post meant.

 

[Camera_Guy]

sfox8 simply wanted to know what reasons Chrisiscool had for disliking Ice Climbers and commenting on the narrow-mindedness seen in Chrisiscool and others like him.

He never said "no, that's not right, and here's why"

 

[T3h Kaiser]

sfox8 simply wanted to know what reasons Chrisiscool had for disliking Ice Climbers and commenting on the narrow-mindedness seen in Chrisiscool and others like him.

He never said "no, that's not right, and here's why"

Show me once in this thread where Chrisiscool agrees with someone, or takes into consideration his/her (negative) thoughts on the Ice Climbers.

 

[Galvanic]

I actually am a somewhat-reforming Ice Climber despiser because they're so difficult to use, seeing that I keep on getting them mixed up. I was never sure who I was supposed to be, but I'm reforming, now.

(Example: Yeah, I'm finally winning! But wait... Why am I not jumping? Oh, wait, that's the pink one sitting by the edge. But then where am I? O0ps-- FAILURE! )

 

[Williampettysan]

Their huge knockback and damage with smash attacks make them look cheap, but their not. I am one of the few people who love their fighting style. They have a huge smash attacks so they get crappy speacil attacks with two recoveries which are 1 that goes vertical and 1 that's horizontal. The nerfs make then not cheap.

I actually can combo easy with them, mostly thanks to their Up tilt A...

 

[skellitorman]

Tell me how a grab combo that is one hit KO not cheap? Grabs are one of the easiest moves to pull off on a character and a grab one hit KO combo is just so stupidly cheap its not even funny. If you even think that that isn't cheap then you can't possibly think that any character or any move is cheap in this game. Not to mention that you can't even use grabs one the ice climbers because then the other just hits you when you try to throw which is just stupid. I main as Kirby and grabbing is essential for any Kirby player, so to take away my main weapon so easily and to have a cheap weapon to your disposal makes your character cheap. Ice climbers has so many advantages over Kirby in power, range, speed that it makes it so difficult to play against them. Also Ice climbers are so strong that they kill Kirby at such a low percent, while I have to work at killing them at much much higher percents.

However the two main reasons why I hate them are just the 1. infinite combo, and 2. the easy defense of my grabs.

If they changed that then I won't really hate them much anymore, maybe just a little
I will never forget how cheap they were lol.

 

[Camera_Guy]

? most people would agree that the ice climbers are just cheap. its hard to explain... more advance techniques arise there popularity drops further because of their drawn out repetitive grab combos and useless B moves. there uniqueness was found to be more of annoyance, two babies running around chasing eachother. They have limited enjoyability to the majority of players. There actions are just not cool enough by most.

His/Her negative thoughts

but, there is a number of people who like them and feel they are cute thats why the are returning. just remember by 2009 75% of brawl owners will rarely play them seriously... "IMO" i was supprozed they made it in. i guess japan likes them more than the rest of the world...

I guess this is agreeing with someone.

 

[Williampettysan]

Tell me how a grab combo that is one hit KO not cheap? Grabs are one of the easiest moves to pull off on a character and a grab one hit KO combo is just so stupidly cheap its not even funny. If you even think that that isn't cheap then you can't possibly think that any character or any move is cheap in this game. Not to mention that you can't even use grabs one the ice climbers because then the other just hits you when you try to throw which is just stupid. I main as Kirby and grabbing is essential for any Kirby player, so to take away my main weapon so easily and to have a cheap weapon to your disposal makes your character cheap. Ice climbers has so many advantages over Kirby in power, range, speed that it makes it so difficult to play against them. Also Ice climbers are so strong that they kill Kirby at such a low percent, while I have to work at killing them at much much higher percents.

However the two main reasons why I hate them are just the 1. infinite combo, and 2. the easy defense of my grabs.

If they changed that then I won't really hate them much anymore, maybe just a little
I will never forget how cheap they were lol.

I kinda find that pathetic... It's like a triangle, Power over Flight, Flight over Speed, Speed over Power...

Kirby is flight and if I recall Ice Climber's are power.

Ice Climbers can not combo easily, you have to be skilled just to do a good combo. Nana is also suppose to be behind Popo a bit so your suppose to be able to grab them. And Nana is not smart enough to save Popo... They aren't fast but their speeds alright I guess. For the Ice Climber's to kill you at a low percent you have to be on a stage like the Mushroom Kingdoms... They also don't have 1 hit KO grabs. They have a good grab but almost every character does is well. Peach's forward grab and Mario's back grab.

Plus, the CPU's suck at playing as IC's... XP

I guess it is easy to combo with grabs... But that means their cheap? Oh say hello to quite a lot of characters Mario and Sheak for instance. That makes almost the whole entire roster cheap.

 

[orintemple]

^I think the one hit KO grab was in reference to wobbling.

They are not cheap, there is no such thing, there is only skill. If you don't want to get wobbled don't get grabbed. Watch that new vid with Shiz fighting ChuDat(I'd love to link it but idk where it is) and then tell me IC is cheap. If your skilled enough you can win.

 

[Ca$hoholic]

i like these guy and girl, mah best friends (female) favorite character :D
Onlt thing i dont like is that blizzard stops quick and the side b is to weak...

 

[sfox8]

I don't understand this thread. While I'm all for some Ice Climber loving, what are you trying to do here? You ask for peoples reasons why they hate the Ice Climbers, and then tell say "no, that's not right, and here's why". You're disagreeing with every point made in the thread. How can you come to an understanding that way?

I think that might have been what Omfgomfg's rather terse post meant.

I don't ever remember saying not that's not right and here's why. And I didn't imply it either. I'm giving a reply to comments that were made about the ICs that were given as though they were fact and not opinion, which is why I had somewhat of a hostile-sounding reply. I never said that my opinions were fact and I never said that nobody was 100% wrong. I'm giving my own opinions based on things that other people are saying as well. That's all part of discussion, and that's the point of the thread. I wanted discussion on why people think the ICs suck and are cheap and shouldn't be allowed to return to Brawl.

I do apologize if I came off as obnoxious though. That certainly wasn't my intention. I just want calm and civilized discussion.


And yes, I agree with orintemple. I don't believe the ICs moves are cheap in any way. Any really skilled player can defeat the ICs with no problem, and likewise, an IC player can be skilled enough to use their moves to their advantage. Again, there's a difference between "being cheap" and just not being good at using the character.

And dude, I'm a Kirby player too. I'm sorry, but as Kirby is in Melee, there's only so far he can go based on his abilities and strength. You could say the EXACT same thing about other characters (Fox, Shiek, etc.) that you're saying about ICs and that would have to make those characters just as "cheap" as ICs. Kirby is limited already, and although there are amazing things you can do with Kirby (looking forward to him being better in Brawl), you shouldn't blame losing on ICs. Like I said, there are other characters that excel over ICs in all three of those areas.

 

[Superninjabreadman]

I dunno why I hate IC, Maybe its the stage <.<

My Respect rose for them With their Final Smash.. just a little.

 

[turtle roll]

yeah, there fs is sweet. and i main link and am notorious for having bad luck but i overcame that with pure skilz. the same goes for every character. overcoming their or any other weakness is skill.
my point is there is only skill and cheapness is an excuse... but links up-B is... ummm... build in skill!!!

 

[ElectroBlade]

I hate having two characters in one,

 

[sfox8]

I hate having two characters in one,

Fair enough, I suppose. You must despise Olimar then hehe.

 

[raphtmarqui]

2 characters in one is unique
We need unique characters

 

[SpitFire15]

1. They can't be grabbed. PERIOD.
2. They have a cheap-*** infinite.
3. Nana can attack when Popo isn't. In some instances when two players are at high percentages, you can send Popo flying, and before he is dead Nana comes behind you and knocks you off screen.

 

[The Noob Legend]

2 characters in one is unique
We need unique characters

That is why Olimar is here.

Unique characters open up various new styles of gameplay.

That's why my second main for Melee and third for Brawl, is the IC.

 

[sfox8]

1. They can't be grabbed. PERIOD.
2. They have a cheap-*** infinite.
3. Nana can attack when Popo isn't. In some instances when two players are at high percentages, you can send Popo flying, and before he is dead Nana comes behind you and knocks you off screen.

1. They can if you grab Popo while Nana is not around. And vice versa. You just need to pull off your throw before the other gets to you. Still, I can understand your frustration. I doubt this will continue to be an IC-exclusive complaint in Brawl though, with Olimar having multiple Pikmin to do just the same thing.

2. It comes with having multiple characters. Olimar may be able to do it too, but I can understand why you wouldn't like characters who have infinite grabs.

3. Nana isn't really that smart and a lot of the time she ends up separated from Popo anyway. In a one on one match with ICs, the only advice I can give you with that is to pull off your attacks quickly with them. Most of the time, things like this can be avoided by just being skillful and thinking about your moves, and then doing them quickly.

Again, I can understand number 2, but 1 and 3 can be avoided by any player that has a strategy or who knows how the ICs play. And once again, speed is a weakness to the ICs, since most of their attacks are slow anyway.

 

[choknater]

no such thing as cheap, spitfire.

 

[W.Jr]

i don't really like the ICs, one thing i could never play as them in the ssmb. Also to me the are just so gay, all they have to do it grab on you are in a chain combo.