I think we're all for getting one simple thing

[---]

I don't think Sakurai has announced much in terms of balance other than:

Character buffs in Miiverse pics
How he's handling balancing
Slight gameplay mechanic changes
That patches are being considered

 

[DaDavid]

TLDR: Sakurai about that gangsta ish and he don't support jabroni's talkin about patches when skill is the band-aid needed.
i.e. SF4 Sagat. The Japanese didn't have a problem with anything except the strength of Sagat's ultra. Other players complained about everything reguarding sagat, and they nerfed him to the point where he wasn't strong enough for competitive play just to keep the community happy. So I support Sakurai in looking over matters first because people did all that complaing for the patches then afterwards complained that SF4 wasn't as good as SF3. (Think Brawl vs. Melee argument. Just with patches and fickle fans)

In what I think is relevant to this post, I'll also throw in that I think his balancing mentality that characters should just excel in certain areas and have weaknesses to make those strengths fair is a damn good one.

So instead of people say, complaining that Little Mac hits too hard and then having Little Mac nerfed to "fix" the issue, Sakurai is being very clear that "yeah. Little Mac is a monster and he crushes souls when he hits you. Luckily my man Mac can't do jack if you put him in the air. So do that son."

 

[Cap'nChreest]

Balance patches scare me... Technical exploits like wave dashing and DACUS-ing would be taken out I think. Things that would deepen the games skill level would be taken out in favor of making things "balanced" I just want the game to be finished when its released.

 

[Dr. Krumm]

Balancing is hard when there are as many characters as the Smash games have. In Melee Sakurai stated that Ganondorf was a weak 1 v 1 character but he turned out to be one of the best in the game. Just as Sakurai now seems to state that Little Mac is not an aerial fighter. It's very hard to predict what makes a character good/bad or what the meta game will revolve around, I bet Sakurai didn't count on the Shine (Fox/Falcos down B) being the most broken move in Melee but through several AT's it became an insanely powerful move.

Don't be too sure that the new Smash will be balanced and all characters will be useful. Even in Project M, which is considered a balanced version of Smash one could make the argument that even in that game there are characters that have a really hard time. Ganondorf vs Fox is, for example, still a match up that is very uneven and in Fox favor.

Of course I still have hope (altough I might sound a bit cynical), but my hopes relies mostly on patches to be entirely honest. Then again, in my opinion the most important thing is to get rid of true chain grabs and such things that plagued Brawl a lot. Pikachu could, for example, chain grab Captain Falcon up to 100% (and Falcon can't do anything about it). Now that is bull****.

 

[LancerStaff]

Balance patches scare me... Technical exploits like wave dashing and DACUS-ing would be taken out I think. Things that would deepen the games skill level would be taken out in favor of making things "balanced" I just want the game to be finished when its released.

Meh. Sakurai wants the metagame to be the basics taken to extremes. Isn't there enough techniques already?

 

[DaDavid]

Balance patches scare me... Technical exploits like wave dashing and DACUS-ing would be taken out I think. Things that would deepen the games skill level would be taken out in favor of making things "balanced" I just want the game to be finished when its released.

I have absolutely no problem with the metagame revolving around the core gameplay mechanics and straying from technical exploits. There's plenty in a game like Smash without things like wave dashing.

Of course my ideal Smash game would pretty much be based on just knowing your character, your opponents character, and being able to read and execute based on those reads. Plain and simple.

 

[Cap'nChreest]

Meh. Sakurai wants the metagame to be the basics taken to extremes. Isn't there enough techniques already?

I have absolutely no problem with the metagame revolving around the core gameplay mechanics and straying from technical exploits. There's plenty in a game like Smash without things like wave dashing.

Of course my ideal Smash game would pretty much be based on just knowing your character, your opponents character, and being able to read and execute based on those reads. Plain and simple.

I guess I just rely on tech skill to be good. to me things like exploits and tech skill are entertaining to watch and pull-off. Sure there are other things like knowing the match up and such but the feeling of doing something technical and having it work to your advantage is really fun in a competitive sense. To take out that stuff just makes the game seem more bland to me.

 

[Malcolm Belmont]

It might be worth pointing out that Bowser wasn't flinching from Mega Man's lemons in the little Mac trailer... but then again that could just be how Bowser is now... we NEED more info on this game!

I'm sure Sakurai will rebalance a few things after release, but I wouldn't doubt it if we get that one character who just never gets patched...

With the WiiU it is much eaiser to patch rebalances..while i don't think Sakurai is going to implement DLC i do think he is going to use patches..

 

[Takehiko]

In what I think is relevant to this post, I'll also throw in that I think his balancing mentality that characters should just excel in certain areas and have weaknesses to make those strengths fair is a damn good one.

So instead of people say, complaining that Little Mac hits too hard and then having Little Mac nerfed to "fix" the issue, Sakurai is being very clear that "yeah. Little Mac is a monster and he crushes souls when he hits you. Luckily my man Mac can't do jack if you put him in the air. So do that son."

Yes. You understand me so well. ^_^

Balance patches scare me... Technical exploits like wave dashing and DACUS-ing would be taken out I think. Things that would deepen the games skill level would be taken out in favor of making things "balanced" I just want the game to be finished when its released.

Rest your worries. Sakurai already stated that he's going to keep Wave-dashing in the programming code since it helps deepen the game (Just like with SF2, being able to Crouching medium kick -> Fireball. Was a programming exploit, but was left in the game). It seems out of anything, he had a problem with edge guarding gimmicks that removed a level of skill from the game. Like for instance, MVC3 Phoenix was nerfed because no one had a problem with how strong she was, it was just the thing of her being able to supply herself with infinite health through a Super move, and all while zoning you out with fireballs. So I can understand sakurai's concerns with edge guarding gimmicks being part of the Alpha patches.

Meh. Sakurai wants the metagame to be the basics taken to extremes. Isn't there enough techniques already?

I wouldn't say there are enough because with each addition of the games in a series and patches then the game should gain more techniques. This is true for humans constantly evolving and patching over old ideas and creating new ones to advance themselves. I hope for this new smash to bring an assortment of new techniques, so that game will be new to everyone. And thus even the playing ground and give the professors (Fighting game term for people who study games to find techniques for people to use in tourney play.) something dig deep into.

 

[Cap'nChreest]

Rest your worries. Sakurai already stated that he's going to keep Wave-dashing in the programming code since it helps deepen the game (Just like with SF2, being able to Crouching medium kick -> Fireball. Was a programming exploit, but was left in the game). It seems out of anything, he had a problem with edge guarding gimmicks that removed a level of skill from the game. Like for instance, MVC3 Phoenix was nerfed because no one had a problem with how strong she was, it was just the thing of her being able to supply herself with infinite health through a Super move, and all while zoning you out with fireballs. So I can understand sakurai's concerns with edge guarding gimmicks being part of the Alpha patches.

I'm not concerned about melee/brawl exploits in this game... but like those exploits. I think its fun to figure those things out and learn them. I'm sure this game will have its own exploits that I hope won't be taken out for "balancing" reasons. But yea I see what you're saying about MvC3. I guess character specific things that give someone a giant lead over everyone else. If they are going to bring back things like tether recoveries then ledges definitely need a fix. But after the games released I think that it should be done you know? Thats all, just remove those things before the game is released and thats fine with me.

 

[LancerStaff]

Yes. You understand me so well. ^_^



Rest your worries. Sakurai already stated that he's going to keep Wave-dashing in the programming code since it helps deepen the game (Just like with SF2, being able to Crouching medium kick -> Fireball. Was a programming exploit, but was left in the game). It seems out of anything, he had a problem with edge guarding gimmicks that removed a level of skill from the game. Like for instance, MVC3 Phoenix was nerfed because no one had a problem with how strong she was, it was just the thing of her being able to supply herself with infinite health through a Super move, and all while zoning you out with fireballs. So I can understand sakurai's concerns with edge guarding gimmicks being part of the Alpha patches.

I wouldn't say there are enough because with each addition of the games in a series and patches then the game should gain more techniques. This is true for humans constantly evolving and patching over old ideas and creating new ones to advance themselves. I hope for this new smash to bring an assortment of new techniques, so that game will be new to everyone. And thus even the playing ground and give the professors (Fighting game term for people who study games to find techniques for people to use in tourney play.) something dig deep into.

Sorry, what? Sakurai hasn't said a thing about bringing back Wavedashing, and every video we've seen has had Brawl airdodging.

 

[Satoru Iwata]

Sakurai isn't about nerfing OP characters, he just wants to highlight strengths of other characters. Don't know what this means for the likes of Meta Knight and Ice Climbers.

How can this be?

 

[Takehiko]

Sorry, what? Sakurai hasn't said a thing about bringing back Wavedashing, and every video we've seen has had Brawl airdodging.

You got me on this one. I apologize for passing along false information that I gained from another individual.

 

[guedes the brawler]

Yes, there will be broken characters... there is always a broken character. It is literally impossible to balance everything before release. It also depends on the specific meta-game, because again, some characters like Meta Knight are not over-powered in FFA. Obviously that is a different situation in 1 v 1 games. The point being, once millions start playing the game, we will come across something the developers had not. It is simple, really.

Glide Tossing makes Meta Knight even more broken in a FFA environment, specially since Items tip the balance toward faster characters, and that the powerful items make up for one of meta knight's ALMOST weakness: his lack of strength.

 

[DaDavid]

Glide Tossing makes Meta Knight even more broken in a FFA environment, specially since Items tip the balance toward faster characters, and that the powerful items make up for one of meta knight's ALMOST weakness: his lack of strength.

I understand how you think that makes sense in theory, but honestly with 4 players running around Meta Knight really isn't broken. Especially if you consider an FFA fight without items, since it's not like that's a requisite.

 

[guedes the brawler]

I understand how you think that makes sense in theory, but honestly with 4 players running around Meta Knight really isn't broken. Especially if you consider an FFA fight without items, since it's not like that's a requisite.

Only if you gang up on him

 

[SmashChu]

Yes, there will be broken characters... there is always a broken character. It is literally impossible to balance everything before release. It also depends on the specific meta-game, because again, some characters like Meta Knight are not over-powered in FFA. Obviously that is a different situation in 1 v 1 games. The point being, once millions start playing the game, we will come across something the developers had not. It is simple, really.

To add to this point:

During an early interview about SSB4 with Iwata, Sakurai said that all the Brawl characters did about the same for online. Competitive Smash is a very small subset of all players. Even if they all do well with X, it may not make a big splash. If there are 1 million active players, and 100,000 active competitive players then you'll only run into one 1 out of 10 times. From a balance stand point, they don't have a lot of relevance. Not to mention the basic online modes would either be free for all or team battles (with friendly fire on). If, say, Little Mac is an S character in tournaments, it may or may not show up in the online matches.

Smash in unique in that the competitive play and everyone else are one in the same. In Street Fighter, the core rules don't change from a casual match to EVO Finals. Only the players do. In Smash, the rules changes. The stages are different. There may be more characters in play. There may be items. It just wont be the same. With balance patches, the problems of some characters may not be fixed because, from everyone else's standpoint, it's a non-issue.

 

[DaDavid]

Only if you gang up on him

Technically? I mean it's FFA, at any given moment any person could attack you when you aren't paying attention without it being some conscious decision to "gang up." If it take 3 people on 1 Meta Knight to beat him in FFA, those probably just aren't very good.