J0A0B
Smash Cadet
I hope I'm asking this at the right board section. Please let me know if I should move it somewhere else.
Please don't label me as a scrub. I don't want any harsh treatment despite the title topic sounding like it's whiny. But I really fail to see how this game is properly balanced. And I want honest opinions or facts as to why Sheik can be considered fair in terms of balance.
I'll admit I was disappointed when I saw ZeRo easily win his with Sheik in several tournaments, including one where he switched from Diddy after losing to a Luigi. I'm sure he's very skilled with the way he performs so many perfect shields and effective reads. It's commendable, but I just can't justify his wins with Sheik seeing how many people consider her the S tier and even ZeRo himself mentioned her being better than Diddy pre-patch.
What I basically want as a response is what COULD have been done in certain scenarios where Sheik had the upper hand. Was there any hindsight on what an opponent could have done to counter whatever strategy Sheik pulled?
For instance, in this event: http://www.twitch.tv/smashstudios/v/4594608
A really good Luigi bested ZeRo's Diddy in the grand finals, so ZeRo switched to Sheik. In pretty much all fights, Sheik was spamming the short hop F.air and it seemed like Luigi had no possible way to gain priority over it. I guess he could counteract with a B.air, but does that leave him vulnerable to landing lag if it whiffs? And even then, it would take a lot of patience to strike at the right moment, leaving Sheik plenty of time to mix-up with some other trick like running grab or needles, especially since the F.air seems so safe when landing.
At some point, Luigi will shield against the F.air, but she'll then have the time to properly back away before landing and avoid any chance of being grabbed, making the idea of shield-grabbing kind of pointless. What exactly can be done to approach her if even defending can't leave any bit of her vulnerable?
During the second fight, Luigi is hanging on a ledge and decides to climb up the normal way, only to be quickly grabbed by Sheik in front of her. I always thought that you gained a slight few frames of invincibility during the climb and you could then do a spot dodge to avoid any incoming attacks. If Luigi was able to spot dodge, would he have avoided the grab?
All-in-all, it seemed like Luigi is just a bad match-up for her even we all guarantee how good Luigi is now in the tier placement.
There is also the matches between ZeRo and Nairo in CEO, and while Nairo's ZSS managed to get a few wins out of it, the whole situation still seemed pretty one-sided in ZeRo's favor. I know ZSS threw out a lot of attempted grabs only to whiff and leave her punished, but that alone couldn't possibly be the only reason he didn't perform so well. The last match was especially horrendous to watch as Sheik just juggling ZSS several directions in the air, leaving the poor bounty hunter no hope of survival. To me, Sheik's multiple aerial attacks, (N, F, and B.air) seemed like an aerial/mobile version of a camping MetaKnight in Brawl. I don't know what Nairo could have done to get himself back on the stage without the threat of being further juggled or gimped.
Overall, despite the nerfs Sheik got over the months, I feel they were unnecessary since the main way for Sheik to win is to pressure the foe and send him/her to the edge so she can gimp in several ways such as throwing the grenade, bouncing fish, vanish, or stake-spiking regardless of how much damage the foe already has. I always thought the point of using Sheik was to rack up damage to high percentages and then kill with an attempted smash, U.air, or special. And that still seems to apply very well, but with the way her frames work and give her the advantage to also gimp in several unique ways over most other characters seems like overkill. Some say her justifiable weaknesses are that she's extremely light and has to rely on hard reads to kill, but I don't think they're really weaknesses since she's only light enough to get blown away by a heavyweight, (she literally survived a forward smash from Pikachu near the edge with both of them over 100% damage), and pretty much anyone can win by making a hard read with aerial attacks, throw setups and gimping.
It's so hard for me to believe Sheik is considered balanced when I see her being used so much and placing around the finals or semis in so many tournaments regardless of who uses her. I'm not even sure who is considerably a good match-up against her. Not to mention the many times she's been consider the very top from peoples' tier lists.
But I basically want to hear about what could have been done for those who lost to ZeRo's Sheik in hindsight. Do any of you think there was any way they could have bested her by making the right reads? If so, what would those reads be? Can Luigi and ZSS still be viable against her, or would it have been better to switch to another character? I want to know how a good player can overcome Sheik, including when ZeRo uses her. Otherwise, I'll just keep thinking she's OP and be discouraged from believing there's any balance in the competitive aspect of this game. Please prove me wrong.
Please don't label me as a scrub. I don't want any harsh treatment despite the title topic sounding like it's whiny. But I really fail to see how this game is properly balanced. And I want honest opinions or facts as to why Sheik can be considered fair in terms of balance.
I'll admit I was disappointed when I saw ZeRo easily win his with Sheik in several tournaments, including one where he switched from Diddy after losing to a Luigi. I'm sure he's very skilled with the way he performs so many perfect shields and effective reads. It's commendable, but I just can't justify his wins with Sheik seeing how many people consider her the S tier and even ZeRo himself mentioned her being better than Diddy pre-patch.
What I basically want as a response is what COULD have been done in certain scenarios where Sheik had the upper hand. Was there any hindsight on what an opponent could have done to counter whatever strategy Sheik pulled?
For instance, in this event: http://www.twitch.tv/smashstudios/v/4594608
A really good Luigi bested ZeRo's Diddy in the grand finals, so ZeRo switched to Sheik. In pretty much all fights, Sheik was spamming the short hop F.air and it seemed like Luigi had no possible way to gain priority over it. I guess he could counteract with a B.air, but does that leave him vulnerable to landing lag if it whiffs? And even then, it would take a lot of patience to strike at the right moment, leaving Sheik plenty of time to mix-up with some other trick like running grab or needles, especially since the F.air seems so safe when landing.
At some point, Luigi will shield against the F.air, but she'll then have the time to properly back away before landing and avoid any chance of being grabbed, making the idea of shield-grabbing kind of pointless. What exactly can be done to approach her if even defending can't leave any bit of her vulnerable?
During the second fight, Luigi is hanging on a ledge and decides to climb up the normal way, only to be quickly grabbed by Sheik in front of her. I always thought that you gained a slight few frames of invincibility during the climb and you could then do a spot dodge to avoid any incoming attacks. If Luigi was able to spot dodge, would he have avoided the grab?
All-in-all, it seemed like Luigi is just a bad match-up for her even we all guarantee how good Luigi is now in the tier placement.
There is also the matches between ZeRo and Nairo in CEO, and while Nairo's ZSS managed to get a few wins out of it, the whole situation still seemed pretty one-sided in ZeRo's favor. I know ZSS threw out a lot of attempted grabs only to whiff and leave her punished, but that alone couldn't possibly be the only reason he didn't perform so well. The last match was especially horrendous to watch as Sheik just juggling ZSS several directions in the air, leaving the poor bounty hunter no hope of survival. To me, Sheik's multiple aerial attacks, (N, F, and B.air) seemed like an aerial/mobile version of a camping MetaKnight in Brawl. I don't know what Nairo could have done to get himself back on the stage without the threat of being further juggled or gimped.
Overall, despite the nerfs Sheik got over the months, I feel they were unnecessary since the main way for Sheik to win is to pressure the foe and send him/her to the edge so she can gimp in several ways such as throwing the grenade, bouncing fish, vanish, or stake-spiking regardless of how much damage the foe already has. I always thought the point of using Sheik was to rack up damage to high percentages and then kill with an attempted smash, U.air, or special. And that still seems to apply very well, but with the way her frames work and give her the advantage to also gimp in several unique ways over most other characters seems like overkill. Some say her justifiable weaknesses are that she's extremely light and has to rely on hard reads to kill, but I don't think they're really weaknesses since she's only light enough to get blown away by a heavyweight, (she literally survived a forward smash from Pikachu near the edge with both of them over 100% damage), and pretty much anyone can win by making a hard read with aerial attacks, throw setups and gimping.
It's so hard for me to believe Sheik is considered balanced when I see her being used so much and placing around the finals or semis in so many tournaments regardless of who uses her. I'm not even sure who is considerably a good match-up against her. Not to mention the many times she's been consider the very top from peoples' tier lists.
But I basically want to hear about what could have been done for those who lost to ZeRo's Sheik in hindsight. Do any of you think there was any way they could have bested her by making the right reads? If so, what would those reads be? Can Luigi and ZSS still be viable against her, or would it have been better to switch to another character? I want to know how a good player can overcome Sheik, including when ZeRo uses her. Otherwise, I'll just keep thinking she's OP and be discouraged from believing there's any balance in the competitive aspect of this game. Please prove me wrong.
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