I need serious help with the Ganon MU. Also ICs.

[Kmac0]

Yeah I always seem to get baited pretty hard by Ganondorf players, but once I start missile camping, things go my way. Vex is in my Apex pool next week and I hear that he's playing full Ganon now. I know camping won't work on him, he's too smart for that. So I'm reaching out for some help, hoping that it'll arrive before this upcoming Friday.

Also Ice Climbers. I usually win when I play this MU, but I got Nintendude in my Apex pool. I've dealt with wobbling before though, I'm 1-0 with Dizzkidboogie in tournament after all. We Money Matched at Super Nebulous yesterday and I gracefully SD'd game 5 last stock against Sopo, so go me.
Although I've talked to ICs players and other smart players before and they say that Samus is their worst MU, so I'm wondering what parts of that MU I'm missing. I feel I could make it even more lopsided, to the point where ICs shutter at the sound of my name.

I'd love to hear what you guys think about these MUs, as I'm not very confident in them I need help prettttyyyy desperately.

(PS: In case you go looking up the Super Nebulous bracket, I played garbage yesterday and no, I don't want to evaluate on that)

 

[Gew]

I'n my opinion both match ups are based off spacing. I feel like I get a lot off some well placed down tilts against ganon which should also work against the IC's. I also think both match ups are all about patience especially for baiting out those IC grabs so wavedash back a lot I guess then space accordingly and thats all i got Gew out. (PS don't be below ganon but you probably knew that.)

 

[343]

Vs Ganon, you... still want to missile camp watch Plup vs ganon vids! He knows that matchup like the back of his hand!

In terms of specifics: if he does a shorthop too close to you, you may be able to dash attack him before the fair comes out. I don't think?? you can wd oos between an l-canceled fair on shield and the ensuing jab, so wait for the jab and then wd back ftilt or something.
I think utilt / dtilt are pretty good for leading into combos, though dtilt is a little scary because if you dtilt his shield he can probably wd oos jab/grab you or something.

But generally I think you want to be running away and letting loose as many missiles as possible.

vs ICs: space ftilts and don't do laggy moves on shield; dair seems to work pretty well if he's shielding; bombs are good vs sopo; ... spam missiles

When I played Fly and cped Stadium, he told me "I cp stadium against HugS so you shouldn't pick Stadium" so there's that (ICs double ice blocks are pretty good if you try to missile camp for too long :/)

 

[EddyBearr]

I like back-air, f-tilt, missiles, and nair (especially off-stage) against Ganon.

 

[343]

I'm slightly skeptical of challenging Ganon in the air (even though I'm guilty of doing it a lot... #badplayerproblems) because nothing Samus has is gonna beat Ganon's fair, so you're banking on hitting him before the fair comes out. But in order to put an aerial out before Ganon's fair comes out, you need to jump really early, which puts you in a bad position if he does an empty shff or an upair or something.

For edgeguarding, though, run off nair before the upb hitbox comes out (or after, if he's going for the sweetspot?) may be viable, though you have to be super careful not to get up-b'd or you just eat a bunch of free damage. But if he's low, you're better off doing an onstage edgeguard (utilt, fsmash, angled ftilt, missiles??) instead; your goal is to just keep hitting him back offstage.

When he (or Falcon, for that matter) are recovering high, I'm currently of the belief that you might as well always cover fade back to ledge (not sure with what yet; I've been doing fsmash and it hasn't been working out thaaat well. maybe uptilt because the hitbox is out longer?), because you should (?) have enough time to punish his landing lag if he goes for a platform.

 

[Ringedge]

For IC's you need to missile as much as possible, all of the time. They really can't do anything about it. Up-tilt is also very good as it can send them up and lead into up-air which is your best friend if the IC's are above you, it can split them up really easy.

 

[Litt]

Yeah I always seem to get baited pretty hard by Ganondorf players, but once I start missile camping, things go my way. Vex is in my Apex pool next week and I hear that he's playing full Ganon now. I know camping won't work on him, he's too smart for that. So I'm reaching out for some help, hoping that it'll arrive before this upcoming Friday.

Also Ice Climbers. I usually win when I play this MU, but I got Nintendude in my Apex pool. I've dealt with wobbling before though, I'm 1-0 with Dizzkidboogie in tournament after all. We Money Matched at Super Nebulous yesterday and I gracefully SD'd game 5 last stock against Sopo, so go me.
Although I've talked to ICs players and other smart players before and they say that Samus is their worst MU, so I'm wondering what parts of that MU I'm missing. I feel I could make it even more lopsided, to the point where ICs shutter at the sound of my name.

I'd love to hear what you guys think about these MUs, as I'm not very confident in them I need help prettttyyyy desperately.

(PS: In case you go looking up the Super Nebulous bracket, I played garbage yesterday and no, I don't want to evaluate on that)

Nintendude will just go peach against you, and you will get bopped

 

[Litt]

For IC's you need to missile as much as possible, all of the time. They really can't do anything about it. Up-tilt is also very good as it can send them up and lead into up-air which is your best friend if the IC's are above you, it can split them up really easy.

UP air aint your best friend at all because their dair beats it...... as for missile all the time, very bad generic advice because missile all the time makes you predictable and readable, as for the ICs cant do anything about missisles... again wrong, good ones jab through them, also tilt nair and bair wall them out

 

[JerkPhil]

IC's is one of my favorite and best matchups. I haven't lost a set vs one since my first tournament as Samus (and already then played even with one of the top EU IC's).
I wish I had some recording to base my words from, but I don't have any...

Anyways, IC's can't beat Samus on FD. Space missiles with short hops back and forth. Shoot them just above their ice blocks' height, but still low enough to hit the climbers.
They can't shield, only hit the missiles as Barbie said. This is our opportunity to take advantage of our well spaced missiles and punish their option against the missiles.
Never approach unless you are 100% sure you've got a window.

Stages with platforms are a bit different. They can dodge the missiles by standing on them, but they can still only approach you from below or from the side. Keep shooting missiles! You need to know your missile game, but still be aware of the climbers' spacing. Don't ignore their long wavedash/waveland.
Their best option is to approach from below, but here is when we abuse one of their biggest weaknesses and move to another platform.

Fully charged chargeshot goes right through ice blocks.

I have yet to play a Ganon on my level or above. They are really rare in EU, and I can only think of Qlex from France right now, and I haven't played him yet.

 

[Litt]

IC's is one of my favorite and best matchups. I haven't lost a set vs one since my first tournament as Samus (and already then played even with one of the top EU IC's).
I wish I had some recording to base my words from, but I don't have any...

Anyways, IC's can't beat Samus on FD. Space missiles with short hops back and forth. Shoot them just above their ice blocks' height, but still low enough to hit the climbers.
They can't shield, only hit the missiles as Barbie said. This is our opportunity to take advantage of our well spaced missiles and punish their option against the missiles.
Never approach unless you are 100% sure you've got a window.

Stages with platforms are a bit different. They can dodge the missiles by standing on them, but they can still only approach you from below or from the side. Keep shooting missiles! You need to know your missile game, but still be aware of the climbers' spacing. Don't ignore their long wavedash/waveland.
Their best option is to approach from below, but here is when we abuse one of their biggest weaknesses and move to another platform.

Fully charged chargeshot goes right through ice blocks.

I have yet to play a Ganon on my level or above. They are really rare in EU, and I can only think of Qlex from France right now, and I haven't played him yet.

Playing ganon is like playing sheik and marth combined... you will lose in priority for almost everything, and dont get grabbed, its my understanding that you must DI down and away to avoid the bair, but im not sure if the bair is guaranteed or not, some ganons hit it and some dont, and even those that hit it, miss it too so :/

As for ICs, bomb OoS is a huge friend in this MU, and dont be afraid to grab and Wd back OoS into grab, ICs want grabs and they stay grounded... even if they hit you... you still are in the clear because you werent grabbed lol, and most of the time you will at least get nana, and the d throw covers you from being hit by popo

 

[Kmac0]

Thanks for the help on this Thread BTW.
Vex told me that he did a name search on himself and found this thread LMAO.
I still beat him in Semis of my apex pool, but I lost to him very narrowly in the runback in losers finals.
Nintendude couldnt do much vs me with both climbers, but he straight outplayed me anyways and was able to do mad work with sopo.

Shoutouts to both of them, they are the homies.
And a big thanks to those who gave me advice here.