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I need help with my Shiek

Impa

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 30, 2013
Messages
3
Location
Corpus Christi
3DS FC
0404-7075-1177
I've been playing Shiek for maybe a year now and I have decided to enter the competitive side of PM.

I know how to L-cancel in battle. I know how to wavedash but I don't know to use it effectively.

I'm looking for tips and matches with players so I can learn more about how to play Shiek effectively.


Thanks! :sheikmelee:
 

Vashimus

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Messages
3,308
Location
Newark, NJ
Check out the old Melee Sheik threads, especially the stickied ones. There's more than a decade of great research there, so make sure to take in the info at your own pace.

Umbreon could probably give you some tips, and everyone can critique you if you're able to show some gameplay.
 

Impa

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 30, 2013
Messages
3
Location
Corpus Christi
3DS FC
0404-7075-1177
Thanks :bee: I'll definetly look into the threads.

Don't know much about recording gameplay but I can play PM online
to show where i'm at right now.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
sheik is a fairly complex character once you start playing her correctly because her gameplay becomes much more linear but it's often hard to differentiate options since many of her choices are redundant with each other. once you start playing to the character's strengths better and differentiate her options, you should be able to expand your game play from there. i'll try to keep this simple:

- shiek's neutral game is missing a good dash and dashing jump. her ground speed is good but her dash is too short to use effectively for a dashdance. therefore, her entire neutral game becomes focused around using her ground position to cut off options from the opponent in a way that mimics a good dashdance. often this takes the very basic form of WD back in place of "dash away" from the dashdance. also, her approach options are very weak due to the lack of an aerial dash, so your "offense" usually means going up to the opponent and reacting defensively to them. sheik's entire game is focused around compensating for her lack of a neutral game into offensive options, because once you get past that the rest of the character is excellent.

- you therefore want to force the opponent to attack you in a way that is advantageous to you. you can do this several basic ways, and many more finessed ways once you are more experienced. easy ones including blatant needle and WD back spam, running up and blocking, or putting out well-spaced tilts when then opponent can't crouch them for whatever reason. these are meant to be low risk ways for you to engage your opponent (mimicking good positional advantage, since you don't actually have an advantage when you do these things from neutral)

- once you get some kind of conversion (usually a grab) you'll start your punishment in a way that feels like a flowchart but maximizes your output. unlike say marth with an undefined punishment game (repeated juggles) or fox where you simply re-engage the opponent from a point of positional advantage over and over again, sheik is different because when the opponent usually escapes your positional advantage, they simply reset to neutral either because that was the end of the punish or because you killed them. you will rarely finish your punish and have the match reset to where you still have some facet of positional advantage. for character with undefined punishment games, it's usually better to ignore the punishment flow chart and to simply re-adjust your punishment after you engage the opponent each time. instead for sheik, you cannot do this reliably, so you should stick to the flowchart and optimize your punishment game as much as possible. therefore, look for frame traps and set-ups from your throws regardless of how your opponent DIs them.

for a basic example, you are sheik and you grab an opponent by the edge. you almost always use down or back throw with sheik anyway, so in this case you just use whichever one gets the opponent off the stage, depending which way you are facing. if they DI out, you can edge guard them and throw needles, if they DI in you get a free sheik slap into the same set-up. no matter which way you were facing at the time you grabbed them, and no matter which way they DI, you still keep the advantage. therefore, these things can be factored into your flowchart for punishment.

- once you are able to finesse past sheik's mediocre neutral game into solid punishments, you can optimize your play from there. playing to this game plan should help you, since you can watch yourself play in videos, see that your neutral game or punishment game needs work, and then address the problem accordingly. hopefully this is just a good first step.
 

Impa

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 30, 2013
Messages
3
Location
Corpus Christi
3DS FC
0404-7075-1177
Thanks for the help!
Didn't quite understand the
first part though :/ but
I appreciate your help c:
 

Nguz95

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 20, 2013
Messages
1,419
Location
Washington, DC
Great Info
Holy crap that is some of the best advice I have ever seen Umbreon. Quantifying Sheik's punishment game as a flowchart is very intuitive. I hadn't realized that. When you say you want to force the opponent to attack in a way that is advantageous to you, do you mean you should bait out an attack so Sheik can capitalize off of it? Would a good example be running into a Marth to bait the shield/fsmash/fair, wavedashing back, and following up with a grab/ftilt?

Anyways, great writeup. I thought I was the only one who thought Sheik's dash dance was bad, so I'm happy to hear that advancing with a wavedash is a better strategy.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
When you say you want to force the opponent to attack in a way that is advantageous to you, do you mean you should bait out an attack so Sheik can capitalize off of it?
http://smashboards.com/threads/drastic-improvement.311129/

apply the Aggression section to this idea. once you have the theories and why they work, you can start applying your own ideas to that framework. it makes your life much easier to integrate everything so you know what you're looking for.
 

Flush 5

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
73
Is there any trick to the upB edge shenanigans? People make it look so easy to break away and teleport back to the edge from above/below/side and every angle in between
 

shadow0x0cloud

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 12, 2013
Messages
148
Location
Long Island
To start, you should just keep doing up-bs until you have a feel for when sheik transitions from the jump to the actual vanish. Once you understand that, shift your control stick from up to (direction) during that transition.
From there its just learning where certain angles will take you.

Off the edge I alternate between ledge fall > up - b ( jump) > hold down > up b ( vanish ) ledge snap and rolling the stick from back to up and doing an up-b.

Hope that helps.
 

DarkStarStorm

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 29, 2013
Messages
888
Location
PNF-404
3DS FC
0318-7018-5269
Thanks :bee: I'll definetly look into the threads.

Don't know much about recording gameplay but I can play PM online
to show where i'm at right now.
I'll play with you, I play a fairly good Zelda. The lag might mess me up a tad but my encyclopedic knowledge of the game could help me to give tips.
 
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