I need help regarding up-b out of shield

[Tumultus]

So, it's a thing for Samus (or is it all characters?) to up-b "out of shield" and it's a viable tactic. I asked someone exactly what the button input to do this is, and he told me you're supposed to shield, and press jump from within the shield, then immediately up b. He claims this is what keeps it from causing a frame loss.

My problem is I keep trying it, and it's fine, but I also try it without ever pressing jump, but rather let go of the shield button and up b immediately and visually I see no difference. I don't perceive the frame advantage I get from jumping before doing the screw attack...?

This is unlike the jump-cancel up smash out of shield. That I DO see why you gotta jump prior to up smashing, but for screw attack not so much. Am I just imagining this or was the guy actually wrong about having to jump?

 

[DungeonMaster]

Yeah you definitely don't want to let go of the shield, that frame advantage is really important. The way I do it is hold shield button and hold up on the stick. As soon as the impact happens on the shield, I simultaneously hit jump and b buttons. It basically buffers and opens it up as soon as possible with this input.
This is a really, really good move. Really good move. Do I love this move? Yes, yes I do. People learn to respect jumping in on you pretty quick, or they die quick, they don't have much choice (except certain air-command grab characters like say wario).

You can also up-smash out of shield. Exactly same thing, hold shield, hold up on d-pad. Hit jump and c-sticks/programmed up-smash. I DON'T suggest up-smash out of shield, it is not terribly safe, I rarely do it. Even though up-smash got quite a buff, it doesn't "lock" in the multi-hits and you can be punished hard. If someone is doing something out of a full-jump though, it can be the better option. Many aerials auto-cancel (minimal lag) but most out of a full jump have a bigger window to punish in.

 

[Tumultus]

Are you certain, though? I feel like I'm screw attacking out of shield extremely quickly without needing to press the jump button. Truthfully, the only difference I'm catching is that if you jump, the screw attack is a bit slower as it ascends in the air, whereas if you don't jump, Samus hops a lot quicker and the attack itself is faster.

I don't know if I'm explaining myself correctly, but do the following: just a normal up-b from the ground, and then compare that to doing an up-b from an airborn position. The grounded up-b goes up on the air a lot quicker, whereas the airborn up-b ascends a bit slower. The actual input comes out just as quickly no matter which method, but the attack itself is a bit slower if performed in the air.

So when you're shielding, jumping, and immediately screw attacking you get that slower ascension just like before. When you shield, and immediately screw attack without ever pressing the jump button, you get the faster rise (because this time, it's technically a grounded up-b, since you haven't jumped)

Truthfully, this is the only difference I've found after testing this for a while. The input itself comes out just as quick after the shield whether you jump or not, IMO. So are you sure you even have to jump? The screw attack will come off the shield just as fast either way. I will post videos to compare when I get the chance.

Again, the jump cancelled up smash DOES provide a frame advantage out of shield (not that it's very useful for Samus because that attack is so situational) but jump cancelling the screw attack out of shield seems pointless.

 

[DungeonMaster]

I'm not actually certain, and slowed to 1/4 I don't see a huge difference if any. Experts? I would really like frame data on the specials. There was that pastebin dump on all the normals, which was great, but some of the other characters on this forum have really detailed frame data on everything.

 

[Tumultus]

Yeah I'm pretty sure there's no difference. Would be nice to see some frame data, though.

When you let go of shield Samus has this arm animation afterwards, but when you let go of shield and up-b immediately the animation is bypassed. Whether you jump or not... That's why I don't think it's actually necessary to jump in the first place.

 

[ChoZoX]

So, it's a thing for Samus (or is it all characters?) to up-b "out of shield" and it's a viable tactic.

This is a thing since Melee for every character and makes attacking shields not safe if the character's up-b has a decent hitbox. Samus in Smash 4 has the best up-b out of shield.

I asked someone exactly what the button input to do this is, and he told me you're supposed to shield, and press jump from within the shield, then immediately up b.

I think you misheard me at the tourny. You're supposed to JUMP + UP-B at the SAME time. Not after. For me, I have L set to jump(Tap jump off). This is what I do: Hold Shield > L + Up on analog + b. These 3 inputs must be pressed at the same time. Very easy once you get used to it. If you "jump", then you did not press the inputs at the same time.

 

[Tumultus]

Hey ChozoX! What's up? Good to see you frequent these parts. Ok, it looks like I misheard you as I've tried to do the inputs a little bit differently. Thanks for clarifying.

I watched your matches with great attention. I liked the fastfall up air + up-b... Never really thought about that. I always wanted to approach with up air because it's the least laggy aerial but the hitbox is a little funky. You made it work though, it was cool.

 

[ChoZoX]

Yeah, fast fall uair is amazing and combos into dtilt as well. Classic Samus combo lol. Dtilt is the better option depending how low they are. It gives more reliable damage and could lead to follow ups unlike screw attack. FF uair is good at shield poking weak shields. Try it out. One of the few safe moves on shield for Samus lol.

 

[Luviant X]

And if you don't want to mess with control setups, UP + B out of shield can be done instantly with Tap Jump On. With it off, you'll have to do some special execution (as explained by Chozo) to pull it off.

And thanks for the tip about down tilt, Chozo. Going to try that.