I Need Help Going Up Against Ganondorf & Dedede

[Rahma Noodles]

A Ganondorf or a Dedede usually eliminates me out of tournaments. They out-range me and they send out powerful blows.

The video below is a little old, but it is the most recent video of me going up against a Ganondorf. I took a year hiatus about a month after this video was released. Now I'm back and my opponent and I are better since then, like our neutral game. This makes us very defensive and heavily punish one another with a set lasting about five minutes or more, but the outcomes are still the same. This goes for other Ganondorf and Dedede players as well. I do fine against Captain Falcon (Semi Clone of Ganondorf of course),

I have not faced enough Bowsers', Donkey Kong's or Charizards' to compare my Mario to the characters yet. Nevertheless they are very tough matches. I also have a hard time with Ganondorf in Melee as well, I'm sure that ties in with my match-up.

I will appreciate any advice, criticism, facts, opinions, etc. and I will share any progress and findings that I may have.

Thank you,

Rahma Noodles

 

[Keman]

Not that I am good enough to tell you how to unanimously beat the people you are having trouble with, but a couple notes.

Mainly I never saw you B-Reverse a single fireball. that is good fireball mix up. I B-reverse 85-90% of all my fireballs thrown(which is probably to much but hell if I know) and I saw you like to get up off the edge with throwing a fireball. where it might be better to wall jump b-reverse a fireball(if you wanna get back on with a fireball).

I guess stages can come down to preference, but it looked like you could have went PS which I thought was considered one of our best if not the best stages for us.

also Id assume you have watched this but just in case - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLY5yZ6MrbHlWdfqLgbEmsJMXiwWgYP4V5

 

[CORY]

don't have time to watch the vid right now, but the way you beat ganon, in general, is to respect his spacing but understand how strongly he has to commit to most actions.

so, respect his range and force him to come to you somehow. with mario the easiest way is fireball spam, since he has to:
a) move around them
b) attack through them while approaching you
c) clank them/aerial them without advancing
technically d) cape them (this is a pretty weak option but is there)

each of those options requires him to commit to an action (with varying levels of commitment) allowing you to try to at least steal stage space from him, possibly all the way up to a full punish combo or a stock.

so, you see he likes to space you out with shffl fairs a lot, get used to the spacing he wants to shffl fair you at, and wd when he jumps in and get ready to throw an fsmash where he'll be landing.

or he really likes walking up and ftilting upwards to clank fireballs as he advances. the clank animation is a commitment, along with the ftilt start up and its active frames. bait him into ftilting a fireball, land just outside the active range of it and then punish the clank animation.

just big blanket examples. i'll try to watch your video after i get back from the gym and give some more specific advice.

 

[Rahma Noodles]

1.- "Mainly I never saw you B-Reverse a single fireball."

2 - "wall jump b-reverse a fireball"

3 - "it looked like you could have went PS which I thought was considered one of our best if not the best stages for us."

4 - "Id assume you have watched this but just in case - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLY5yZ6MrbHlWdfqLgbEmsJMXiwWgYP4V5"

1.) I should do 'B-Reverse' more. I was so caught up in perfecting 'wavebounceing' that I forgot the option of B-Reversing and that I only do them after a 'wall-jump'. Thanks for reminding me

2,) That is my bread and butter recently. I am known in my local community to do big damage after that option. I can also 'wall jump' 'Side-B reverse' 'cap' as a mix up. But Dedede's 'forward-tilt' and Ganon's 'back-jump' 'foward-air' is tough to get though.

3.) I do think Mario is good in Pokemon Stadium, but I believe that stage is a favorite of most people. I personally like platforms and i do realize that is a double-edge sword when facing characters that favors them.

4.) I never saw these, and what is s funny to me is that I recently started watching 'Gallo''s matches on youtube. Thanks for the link.

 

[Rahma Noodles]

1.- "respect his spacing but understand how strongly he has to commit to most actions"

2.- "respect his range and force him to come to you somehow"
2a- "move around them"
2b- "attack through them while approaching you"
2c- "clank them/aerial them without advancing"
2b- "cape them (this is a pretty weak option but is there)"
=
2x- "each of those options requires him to commit to an action (with varying levels of commitment) allowing you to try to at least steal stage space from him, possibly all the way up to a full punish combo or a stock."

3.- "get used to the spacing he wants to shffl fair you at, and wd when he jumps in and get ready to throw an fsmash where he'll be landing."

4.- "he really likes walking up and ftilting upwards to clank fireballs as he advances. the clank animation is a commitment, along with the ftilt start up and its active frames. bait him into ftilting a fireball, land just outside the active range of it and then punish the clank animation."

1.) Oh yes, I completely respect Ganon's spacing. But I do many times underestimate how fast Ganon can pull out a jab after a 'L-cancle'

2) I am really good at aiming fire balls when I jump so when anyone tries to jump over. the fireball will bounce high enough to hit them. But I have to high-jump or jump away or else if I were to miss, my opponent will punish.

2a) I do like maneuvering around with platforms. Except 'Yoshi's Story' against Ganon and Dedede.
2b) This is when I can tip the scale in a match. but that rarely happens when the opponents are defensive.
2c) I need to this. I have not been following up on clanks. thank you.
2d) It is an option. I do find it better to use it when they are grounded instead in the air to mix them up.
=
2x.) I will use what 'Keman' suggested and use more 'b-reverse' to mix things up.

3.) They not approach often. And they will shffl fair me going at place or going back. though I wonder if Mario 'f-smash' or 'f-tilt' would reach when Ganon lands from a fair

4.) I will definitely do this. I have done this before without catching on what was really happening. Now it will be a tactic Thank you.