I need help against Ice Climbers MU!

[notkain]

When I face an Ice Climbers, I sort of have an idea of what I should be doing..

Separating them, killing Nana, shine, etc etc.

But I have no idea how to really fight against them, can anyone give me any tips that could benefit me when facing them?

Also what should I do against a wobbler? Besides "don't get grabbed."

 

[magister54]

I believe that you can only wobble at a certain percent (20% or above) so be more aware of the threat then. Separating by using dair or shines of course makes sense, also using the stage to your advantage to avoid being grabbed (platforms, edges, etc.). Fountain is a good example of this, as is Pokemon Stadium, as the field rises and changes, which may help to pull you out from a wobble.

 

[notkain]

I believe that you can only wobble at a certain percent (20% or above) so be more aware of the threat then.

I'm not sure if that's exactly true, because I feel like I've gotten wobbled at any percent..

Also it's true that mashing out of it is buffered right? So if I mash for like 5 seconds and then they screw up like 10 seconds later I'll get out of it?

 

[SHIP]

I'm not sure if that's exactly true, because I feel like I've gotten wobbled at any percent..

Also it's true that mashing out of it is buffered right? So if I mash for like 5 seconds and then they screw up like 10 seconds later I'll get out of it?

Yeah thats how it works. When you have mashed sufficiently you are at a point where you will escape when you are not being wobbled properly. This means that if you mash fast enough you can escape before they manage to set in the wobble timing. If you are getting wobbled from 0 you are simply not mashing early enough.

The stage change saving you is not a particularly likely thing to happen. Ultimately the only thing that will save you from getting wobbled by a competent IC player is not getting grabbed while both Ice climbers are free to act. Failing that begin mashing the instant you are grabbed especially if Nana is out of position.

In order to avoid being grabbed shine is pretty much your best friend. If you aerial into shine correctly you should not be able to be grabbed.
If you get hit by a blizzard you want to either try to smash DI down and away or up and away and then airdodge. Although sometimes you can smash DI behind them if you get hit by the very front of the move. Sticking to platforms can keep ice climbers from blizzarding you unless they use the nanapult.

A lot of ice climbers like to wavedash into jab and then grab. However spacies jabs are so fast that often when I go for this against a training partner of mine he can use his jab to interrupt.

Simply not being near the ice climbers is a very good way to not get grabbed so laser spamming is something a lot of foxes do against the ICs.

Also watch out for dash attacks and uptilts they both setup perfectly into grab in many situations.

 

[magister54]

I'm not sure if that's exactly true, because I feel like I've gotten wobbled at any percent..

Also it's true that mashing out of it is buffered right? So if I mash for like 5 seconds and then they screw up like 10 seconds later I'll get out of it?

I'm pretty sure you have to be above 20%, smash wiki confirms this: http://www.ssbwiki.com/Wobbling

 

[AppleAppleAZ]

I'm pretty sure you have to be above 20%, smash wiki confirms this: http://www.ssbwiki.com/Wobbling

You can get wobbled at any percent, and once the wobble starts you cannot escape it even if you are below 40% (barring the IC player messing up)

 

[magister54]

You can get wobbled at any percent, and once the wobble starts you cannot escape it even if you are below 40% (barring the IC player messing up)

Oh **** you're right, I read the article too quickly. It says, "[…] that a player able to perform it is sure to get a KO if he/she can grab an opponent above 20% if both ice climbers are present" which is still useful to know.

Any tips for approaching IC? I play Falco so I usually nair and SHL approach.

 

[x412]

Keep in mind that damage to Nana does not increase the percent value. Yes, I realize this is obvious but in the heat of moment it's easy to forget that. And once Nana is saved, you will feel as if you have done nothing. It's a decent mind game to make the other player save her even though you are using her as bait. But if you can combo her off then that is preferred.

 

[Thor]

Keep in mind that damage to Nana does not increase the percent value. Yes, I realize this is obvious but in the heat of moment it's easy to forget that. And once Nana is saved, you will feel as if you have done nothing. It's a decent mind game to make the other player save her even though you are using her as bait. But if you can combo her off then that is preferred.

Nana takes damage percentage though, so if you build the damage of only one Ice Climber, hitting them with an attack with decent knockback growth (any smash attack or tilt, nair, uair, bair), you will separate them very easily. If Nana is the one with high percent, getting a followup attack could result in a kill, making them unable to Wobble/CG efficiently/etc. until next stock (and weaken Popo's recovery), or you can harass Popo while Nana comes running back and then hopefully hit her out again. If Nana is the one with low percent, you could try gimping her while Popo recovers, or just try to finish Popo off.

 

[SHIP]

For Falco approaching ice climbers is quite easy. Laser downair bair and nair are all very safe and very effective against them because of the shine. That said if you mess it up and whiff or fail to L cancel (the timing is a bit different when you hit two shields as opposed to one) there is a very real possibility of them just killing you.
Falco's shine does an excellent job of seperating ice climbers as often popo will DI and nana will not and they go different distances based upon their own percentages. Typically you can actually combo either ice climber and still find time to knock the other away with a back air or something.
Choosing which ice climber to combo can be difficult because each one has its merits. Attacking popo means you have less to be afraid of in retaliation. Nana does a pretty bad job of getting people off of popo. However if Popo is able to escape from the combo and land a grab nana is a bit more likely to be in range to resync for a grab combo (ideally ending in your death). When attacking nana you will have an opponent who can actually think trying to attack you. But when you combo nana there is very little chanc of her squirming out and hitting you and also you are quite likely to kill her very quickly.

Ideally you want to be able to hit both ice climbers as they recover allowing you to simply kill nana and then edgeguard popo. Be careful not to tunnel vision on the ice climber you are comboing as the other may just f smash you out of nowhere.

 

[notkain]

As a Fox, and all Wobbling discussion put aside, what are some good ways of getting the IC's out and away from me effectively?

Sometimes I try the nair+bair approach and I usually get punished for it.

What's a really good approach/punish I could use against them?

 

[SHIP]

As a Fox, and all Wobbling discussion put aside, what are some good ways of getting the IC's out and away from me effectively?

Sometimes I try the nair+bair approach and I usually get punished for it.

What's a really good approach/punish I could use against them?

Drill shine and nair shine are typically pretty safe as long as you can perform them against two shields effectively. Bair is a very safe option but its used more for zoning than actually approaching.
Run up shine is also quite effective.
All of these are however unsafe if the ice climbers can guess what you are going for and move out of the way or put out a hit box to beat it, so really you want to dash dance around and try to bait them into misreading your approach and then get them while in lag.
For punishes your primary concern should be separating them. Shining them offstage and then edgeguarding them is very effective as are upthrow combos.

 

[AppleAppleAZ]

So what's the most efficient way to kill nana?

I've thought that maybe turnaround wave shine off the stage and edge hogging would work but I'm not sure if nana will be able to double jump before I grab the ledge or if popo would be out of stun and able to save her. I haven't tested this at all but it's an idea. There's a couple of strong ICs where I play weeklies at.