I made my own tier list a while ago...

[Winston]

Can't you guys stop flaming each other. Both of you.

Sliq has a point you know. Now just acknowledge that he's a jerk sometimes and move on.

If you watch enough videos of good players playing these matchups you can understand why certain chars are on the tier list.

 

[UltiMario]

Time to end this........

Tires. Don. Exits.

/thread

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

in my opinion Zelda is the second worst character in the game. she's horrible.

She isn't *that* bad. Bad enough to deserve her current spot on the tier list, give or take a bit.

ay my dude. The reason zelda sux is because she dies easy and she has worthless smashs. Ice Climbers has a lot of stuff to rn over the competition. Thank you for being polite, SS.

I wouldn't say she dies easily in general. Off the top, yes.

Her smashes are better than most of her non-kick moves. Her down and forward smashes are fast and more spammable than most smashes in the game are. Zelda's down smash is the fastest smash in the game, and sends opponents at a useful angle (down about 45 degrees). Forward smash has huge range and is fast for a smash.

I'd say the reason Zelda is low on the tier list is because of a lack of mobility. With the worst wavedash, worst run speed, and second slowest jump, she is very immobile. A horrible grab speed, and lack of decent throws or combos doesn't help either.

How strong is her aerial forward/backwards glowing kick ? I mean, compared to most moves ?

Both do about 20% with good knockback if sweetspotted. Better than any other moves Zelda has. Sure there are some moves that are arguably better on other characters. But the kicks are really good compared to most characters' f-air and b-air..

...so the reason you put ness so high is OMG FSMASH, right?

gj

Lol, I don't think Fsmash is ness's best move, or that Ness's Fsmash is one of the better Fsmashes in the game... It's good compared to ness's ground game in general though..

 

[MattDotZeb]

Count on Emmy to rep the low tiers. Yeahuhz.

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

Yeah, no one seems to know what their good or even their bad points are.. >_>

 

[Speedsk8er]

She isn't *that* bad. Bad enough to deserve her current spot on the tier list, give or take a bit.



I wouldn't say she dies easily in general. Off the top, yes.

Her smashes are better than most of her non-kick moves. Her down and forward smashes are fast and more spammable than most smashes in the game are. Zelda's down smash is the fastest smash in the game, and sends opponents at a useful angle (down about 45 degrees). Forward smash has huge range and is fast for a smash.

I'd say the reason Zelda is low on the tier list is because of a lack of mobility. With the worst wavedash, worst run speed, and second slowest jump, she is very immobile. A horrible grab speed, and lack of decent throws or combos doesn't help either.



Both do about 20% with good knockback if sweetspotted. Better than any other moves Zelda has. Sure there are some moves that are arguably better on other characters. But the kicks are really good compared to most characters' f-air and b-air..



Lol, I don't think Fsmash is ness's best move, or that Ness's Fsmash is one of the better Fsmashes in the game... It's good compared to ness's ground game in general though..

OMG I wanna kiss you...

Even though Zelda is a boring character..

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Show me where I got mad. I didn't get mad. lol. And also, I asked a question. You don't know my opinion. Is your life so boring that you have to act like you do on message boards to get attention, Sliq? Get a life.

Well, you did call us a bunch of nerds. It's easy to assume that you put that out there as an expression of anger. Remember that the internet is a piss-poor medium for communication at times, especially when trying to gauge a person's feelings about something.

For instance, the post I just quoted...? It seems as if you're a bit agitated and you just had to retaliate. That is a form of anger. Or at least, that's what I'm assuming.

At any rate, Seventh Sage, please carry your discussion to the proper threads. I appreciate your opinion, but there really isn't a need for yet another thread discussing tiers.

Smooth Criminal

 

[legendofme]

You Been By Duh uh You Been Struck By Duhhh A Smooth Criminaal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WOOO!

 

[sonic smash down]

no way link and roy was a higher tier than that in my book

 

[SeventhSage]

Oh well, I guess I got the answers I was looking for. Thank you guys. Btw, I'm sorry my first thread turned out like this. I couldn't have known this topic has been discussed a thousand times before, then again, I understand why this could annoy the veterans. Before the tier topic dies for good, can anyone link me to a thread about the diffciulty of computer-played characters ? I mean, for example, I find the CPU-played C.Falcon is a joke compared to say, Falco or Fox. Is there a list of the CPU-played characters toughness?

 

[2007]

It's so sad that Captain Falcon is Middle Tier in truth . He is minimum a skyscraper tier.
muesli

That is an outrageous lie.
Captain Falcon is in skyscraping KNEE tier lol (that was lame)
but no, I still wonder why CF isn't God Tier since he's pretty heavy, he's fastEST, has really powerful moves, and he's got the knee.

just a thought...
2007=

 

[Firebert]

I had always thought marth was top tier.

He pretty much is, as much as it matters.

 

[fosskers]

That is an outrageous lie.
Captain Falcon is in skyscraping KNEE tier lol (that was lame)
but no, I still wonder why CF isn't God Tier since he's pretty heavy, he's fastEST, has really powerful moves, and he's got the knee.

just a thought...
2007=

clearly FiTT ?

 

[billythegoat]

thing like this should be put in the 2006-2007 tier list discusion, but thanks for the input for the tier list.

 

[Sliq]

Oh well, I guess I got the answers I was looking for. Thank you guys. Btw, I'm sorry my first thread turned out like this. I couldn't have known this topic has been discussed a thousand times before, then again, I understand why this could annoy the veterans. Before the tier topic dies for good, can anyone link me to a thread about the diffciulty of computer-played characters ? I mean, for example, I find the CPU-played C.Falcon is a joke compared to say, Falco or Fox. Is there a list of the CPU-played characters toughness?

You could have known if you had checked:

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=81928

You could've posted in there. But you opted to make a thread that's been made a million times about your personal beliefs. The tier list is based off of character performance in tournaments, i.e. it has hard evidence behind it.

 

[BigRick]

Current tier list is not current.

It's old...

 

[Sliq]

Current tier list is not current.

It's old...

Doesn't stop you from posting suggestions for changes, does it?

 

[The Great Morphologous]

I have to agree with him a bit about Zelda. She practically has a knee that goes both ways. 2 Knees > 1 Knee. She should be at least twice as good as Falcon.

 

[SeventhSage]

You could have known if you had checked:

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=81928

You could've posted in there. But you opted to make a thread that's been made a million times about your personal beliefs. The tier list is based off of character performance in tournaments, i.e. it has hard evidence behind it.

First of all this link has nothing to do with the computer-played tier list I'm asking, cause you said I should've checked it. Second of all, if this thread has been made a million times, I wasn't there when it happened and therefore, I could care less. If youre tired of such threads then ignore them and dont post in them. I know how the tier list has been made. I didnt contradict the current tier list or any tier list whatsoever. I asked for soldid explanations.... After the third time I tell you one would have thought you'd get it by now.

 

[Sliq]

First of all this link has nothing to do with the computer-played tier list I'm asking, cause you said I should've checked it. Second of all, if this thread has been made a million times, I wasn't there when it happened and therefore, I could care less. If youre tired of such threads then ignore them and dont post in them. I know how the tier list has been made. I didnt contradict the current tier list or any tier list whatsoever. I asked for soldid explanations.... After the third time I tell you one would have thought you'd get it by now.

My point is if you wanted a debate and our comment on YOUR tier list, if you had posted it in that thread, you would've gotten EXACTLY what you wanted, as opposed to a bunch of people flaming you.

Before you make a topic, you should ALWAYS search the forum for similar topics, so it doesn't get so cluttered that it is impossible to find good topics as they have been pushed to the later pages by people making unnecessary topics.

 

[Luck-NYC/NJ]

sliq as much as i know ur right theres nothing you can do about the melee discussion section. Its unfortunately a lost waste land of nubs who makes stupid posts because they can and because "its fun!" However, i believe strongly that the data or evidence the tier list is based off is a dumb premise. The tier list should not be a display of the best characters in touney because this is information we can find out through other means. The tier list should show the skill level or over all potential of the characters, so that we can have a better understanding of the which characters are the best in the game. I understand that its a little stupid to make a tier list based on the characters maximum potential because as humans we can never reach that level but i feel that what it should be based on is a mixture of what we've seen in the game so far and what we can expect.

i have 2 good examples:

i believe marth is the best character in the game for 1 reason. So far the two people known as the best in the world have main marth (Ken, M2k). It is safe to assume that because no other player can beat them with any character that marth is theoritcally the best in the game because on a human level no one can beat the best marth player. their for the next best people such as (PC, Cort, Shiz, Lambchops) should represent the characters under marth. I would say Fox is the second best character because while the best marth player can beat him (PC), the best players of the other characters cannot. (this is an example just an example im not sure if other people cant beat PC's fox). so i feel that the characters skill should be based on the person who plays the character the best.

My other example is proof that this would be an accurate way to judge the ability of the characters. There have been people in this game that come and re-invent characters such as IC's (chu), DK (BUM, Cptn Jack), Luigi (Ka-Mastr), M2 (Taj, ADHD) Boooooooozer lol (Gimpehfishes). These people have proved that not only are their characters under rated but that they should be higher in our current tier list because of the skills the people dont know about. the characters who have not been re-invented should stay in the bottom tier probably because we have already seen the best of the ability represented by a person (for example (no offense to the person) Dire is the best G&W (probably) yet he probably is not better then most of the people i have named so far. There for he should be lower then some characters because we've seen the best he can be).

Now i have considered alot of things in this theory so feel free to challenge me on it. If there are things ive over looked i WANT you to point them out to me so that i can hone my theory.

Thnkx in advanced.









but uh falco should definatly be the best actually because of my sig LOL

 

[legendofme]

happynegro I am compelled to agree with everything you said.

 

[Number 1 DK]

Zelda....High Tier?

...............................................

 

[Sliq]

sliq as much as i know ur right theres nothing you can do about the melee discussion section. Its unfortunately a lost waste land of nubs who makes stupid posts because they can and because "its fun!" However, i believe strongly that the data or evidence the tier list is based off is a dumb premise. The tier list should not be a display of the best characters in touney because this is information we can find out through other means. The tier list should show the skill level or over all potential of the characters, so that we can have a better understanding of the which characters are the best in the game. I understand that its a little stupid to make a tier list based on the characters maximum potential because as humans we can never reach that level but i feel that what it should be based on is a mixture of what we've seen in the game so far and what we can expect.

i have 2 good examples:

i believe marth is the best character in the game for 1 reason. So far the two people known as the best in the world have main marth (Ken, M2k). It is safe to assume that because no other player can beat them with any character that marth is theoritcally the best in the game because on a human level no one can beat the best marth player. their for the next best people such as (PC, Cort, Shiz, Lambchops) should represent the characters under marth. I would say Fox is the second best character because while the best marth player can beat him (PC), the best players of the other characters cannot. (this is an example just an example im not sure if other people cant beat PC's fox). so i feel that the characters skill should be based on the person who plays the character the best.

My other example is proof that this would be an accurate way to judge the ability of the characters. There have been people in this game that come and re-invent characters such as IC's (chu), DK (BUM, Cptn Jack), Luigi (Ka-Mastr), M2 (Taj, ADHD) Boooooooozer lol (Gimpehfishes). These people have proved that not only are their characters under rated but that they should be higher in our current tier list because of the skills the people dont know about. the characters who have not been re-invented should stay in the bottom tier probably because we have already seen the best of the ability represented by a person (for example (no offense to the person) Dire is the best G&W (probably) yet he probably is not better then most of the people i have named so far. There for he should be lower then some characters because we've seen the best he can be).

Now i have considered alot of things in this theory so feel free to challenge me on it. If there are things ive over looked i WANT you to point them out to me so that i can hone my theory.

Thnkx in advanced.









but uh falco should definatly be the best actually because of my sig LOL

It is impossible to gauge characters on potential, because in order to establish a tier list this way, you'd have to have a RR with every character perfectly fighting every character, which isn't possible, because if they fight perfectly, they would never get hit.

It is like asking what happens when a sword that can cut anything strikes an unbreakable shield.

What you are actually describing is how the tier list is built now, albeit outdated.

The tier list should ALWAYS reflect tournament results, because the metagame is constantly changing, and it is impossible to anticipate a new tactic coming out of the wood works, making a character much better.

Since the metagame is constantly changing, then the tier list should be constantly changing.

Personally, I think Jigglypuff should be higher on the list, considering how well Mango is placing, and considering how well King used to place.

And have it be noted that when I say tournament results, I don't just mean the top 3.

Not too many Ganondorfs or Dr. Marios are consistently placing as high as Jigglypuff players, leading me to believe that Jiggs needs to be bumped up.

 

[Watervendor]

Samus should be higher than Doc and Mario, but Doc should be above Mario. Just check out all the fights on youtube. Doc usually beats Mario and Samus usually beats Doc. So what I'm saying is:

HIGH TIER
-Samus ~ WRONG
-Jiggypuff~ WRONG
-Dr.Mario ~ WRONG
-Mario ~ WRONG

 

[DOK nub]

Watervendor: Um, if I made a list, Dr.Mario would be High Tier, lay off the Mushrooms.

 

[Watervendor]

Watervendor: Um, if I made a list, Dr.Mario would be High Tier, lay off the Mushrooms.

would or wouldn't be on the high tier? The way you put the sentence, it sounded like Doc should be on the Middle Tier.

 

[DOK nub]

would or wouldn't be on the high tier? The way you put the sentence, it sounded like Doc should be on the Middle Tier.

would be. lol

 

[legendofme]

IMO my tier list after a lot more playing lately....But then again who cares. This is a fun thread (In Order):
Top: Marth/Fox/Sheik/Falco
Top-Mid: Puff/Falcon/Peach/Samus
Mid: IC/Doc/Ganon/Mario
Mid-Low: DK/Pika/Y. Link/Link/Luigi
Low: Bowser/Yoshi/Roy/G&W
Garbage Tier: Zelda/Pichu/Mewtwo/Kirby (hes the worst character to me)

 

[Luck-NYC/NJ]

It is impossible to gauge characters on potential, because in order to establish a tier list this way, you'd have to have a RR with every character perfectly fighting every character, which isn't possible, because if they fight perfectly, they would never get hit.

sorry to bring back bad blood but this agrument cant be over because u mis understood my point. i understand u cant base the tier list off character potential alone. I said u should base it off the players who are the best with that character.

here is a small break down of what im trying to say:

M2K = Marth (best marth in the world)

PC = Fox (best fox in the world)

M2k vs Pc = m2k wins

Marth > Fox

if you would do this with the best players of each character i believe u could then theortically make the best tier list possible. if i wanted to see how well people are doing in tourneys or how often there are 23905892 foxes entering tourneys i would just go to the results thread.

the tier list should represent the characters not the players.

 

[Radical Dreamer]

Sheik doesn't counter Marth or anything I guess.

 

[Sliq]

sorry to bring back bad blood but this agrument cant be over because u mis understood my point. i understand u cant base the tier list off character potential alone. I said u should base it off the players who are the best with that character.

here is a small break down of what im trying to say:

M2K = Marth (best marth in the world)

PC = Fox (best fox in the world)

M2k vs Pc = m2k wins

Marth > Fox

if you would do this with the best players of each character i believe u could then theortically make the best tier list possible. if i wanted to see how well people are doing in tourneys or how often there are 23905892 foxes entering tourneys i would just go to the results thread.

the tier list should represent the characters not the players.

You don't seem to understand character counters and such. Marth doesn't counter Fox, but there ARE character counter match ups, and certain characters have the advantage over others, so basing it off of that seems pointless.

What's going to end up happening is: A Sheik will beat a Marth so Sheik > Marth, a Marth will beat a Fox so Marth > Fox, a Fox will beat a Sheik so Fox > Sheik. Now you have one big cluster ****.

Also, they way you have it, the players represent the characters.

 

[Luck-NYC/NJ]

the players represent the best the character can be played, but its still about the character.

Also i wasnt saying anything about counters it was an example.

i was trying to give u a hypothetical example of what i think should be done to determine the tier list.

also there isnt a shiek that exists that can beat m2k's marth. Hence KDJ losing to m2k.therefore marth is (in theory) the best character in the game because no-one else can beat him.

 

[Sliq]

the players represent the best the character can be played, but its still about the character.

Also i wasnt saying anything about counters it was an example.

i was trying to give u a hypothetical example of what i think should be done to determine the tier list.

also there isnt a shiek that exists that can beat m2k's marth. Hence KDJ losing to m2k.therefore marth is (in theory) the best character in the game because no-one else can beat him.

This theory is extremely flawed. It is like saying, because Aniki beat Ken, Link > Marth.

 

[Zankoku]

Didn't Drephen beat M2K at VLS?

 

[Radical Dreamer]

Pretty sure KDJ's Sheik has been beating M2K's Marth.

 

[SaltyBacon4me]

mario better than samus!? your a ****in noob!

 

[Knyaguy]

Yay Pika is finally over CFalcon.(My friend is a CFalcon main and never believes me that Pika is better.)

 

[Don Tyrant]

Zelda that higghhhh, thats absurd, Zelda is so slow, not even the greatest mindgames would make her that high, Zelda is not higher than Dk, Dk has the cargo combo to work, it's quick. Bowser is not the worst character, that probably goes to pichu. Zelda is above Captain Falco, ganon, jigglypuff, that is so wrong, any of those characters can be considered better than zelda in so many different aspects. Pikachu high tier, ice climbers low tier?????

There are SOOOOOOOOOO MANNNNY THINGS WRONG WITH YOUR TIER LIST, TRY AGAIN BUDDY, this list is upside down.

 

[legendofme]

I put Zelda in garbage tier. But thats just me...AND THE WORST CHARACTER IN THE GAME IS KIRBY!! IM SORRY AND I AM A KIRBY FAN! Kirby sux ***..thanks Nintendo for ruining his moveset.