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I don't think that Samus is the worst character and here is why:

Tubruh

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Look, I know that the title is click-baity, but hear me out. I know Samus isn't the best, not even top 30. But I do think that she has some great things about her.

-2 good projectiles
-Good combo game
-Good aerials
-Decent landing options (Up, Down, and Neutral air)
-Fully charged Neutral B gives her a somewhat early kill move
-Bombs give good mixups, mobility, combo-material, etc.
-Good spike

Now, I can understand why people think she sucks. And I can understand. Please tell me your opinions! (Just don't be mean.)
 
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-_ellipsis_-

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-decent landing options

I have to disagree here. I'm not saying they're bad, but I have to compare them to "good landing options".

-Pikachu upb, neutral b, fair, etc
-ZSS's Down B
-Diddy's side b
-Falco's fair
-Link's nair
-Luigi's nair
Etc.

What all good landing options have in common is virtually no landing lag, have hit boxes that can hit threatening areas, or can change momentum and return to neutral very safely. Samus's bair is safe on shield, but only if it sweetspots. And it only threatens one general area, and it's landing lag is pretty noticable. Dair also has really noticable landing lag. Upair has a small amount of landing lag, but does almost no shield stun when you compare it to Mario's nair, which means it can be grabbed oos. Nair is only safe when it's perfectly spaced and you have momentum. Samus does have bombs as a momentum changer I guess, but they don't give her a whole lot of mobility and they leave her really vulnerable. I'd say she has generally subpar landing options. Retreating to the ledge is really the only thing to do.
 

noboruplaysgames

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I don't have any real logic to back it up but I just get the feeling she isn't the worst. Even through she suffers in many areas, she still has some things she can do.
 

Boney

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I don't think anybody on this board thinks she's the actual worst. The " everything wrong with Samus" under a video really hurt her perception because people see the broken hitboxes but don't know about the other stuff (like people getting hyped about dash attack up air up b). If you have no idea about basic stuff like that, then you're not in no position to say if she's good or bad despite "broken hitboxes".

But yeah she has a few things going for her, but many other problems, especially landing, cqc and reliable ways to pressure opponents.

What....is her second good projectile?
Uncharged shot obviously
 

Zylach

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Look, I know that the title is click-baity, but hear me out. I know Samus isn't the best, not even top 30. But I do think that she has some great things about her.

-2 good projectiles
-Good combo game
-Good aerials
-Decent landing options (Up, Down, and Neutral air)
-Fully charged Neutral B gives her a somewhat early kill move
-Bombs give good mixups, mobility, combo-material, etc.
-Good spike

Now, I can understand why people think she sucks. And I can understand. Please tell me your opinions! (Just don't be mean.)
I'll say that a few of these points aren't really true. At the same time, some of the points brought up still provide proof enough that Samus isn't the garbage character so many people think she is. I'll preface this by saying that the whole argument about Samus being the worst character in the game is perpetuated by people that have never seen a good Samus yet heard about her bad hitboxes and lack of kill throws so just assumed that she had nothing besides those and CS.

On your first point: Samus has no good projectiles. CS is decent but has a few things that hold it back like not being able to charge it in the air and the startup lag on it allows her to be hit and, thereby, lose the entire charge without firing anything. Her missiles are bad and need to be changed to be usable in all MU's. I guess you could call her morph ball bombs a projectile as they can be reflected but, if we're considering them to be a projectile, then they kinda fail at being a projectile (They're more like mini-zoning tools and the real strength of the move comes from momentum reversals).

On your second: I agree. Her combo game is a lot better than some characters which, imo, should place her higher than "worst character ever" by itself. Having a good combo game, being able to rack up 30%+ from one grab, is a big deal in this game. Not to mention, Samus has a kill combo on some stages that can kill at 0% (Especially on Delfino). Some characters have no followups from throws and can't get over 25% from their BnB combos. This is a big strength for her.

On your third: Her aerials are decent, not great. Her uair is probably her strongest aerial next to bair. Fair is ok but the hitboxes don't loop well and the landing lag on it is atrocious. Dair has some weird hitboxes, comes out kinda slow, and also has some bad landing lag. Nair is questionably useful. her old nair was far superior.

On your fourth: Her only really reliable landing option is uair and the hitbox on it doesn't make it as reliable as other landing options in the game like Pika or Sheik. Considering she actually has one, though, means her landing game is better than a lot of the cast that doesn't have a single landing option. More points for her not being worst character.

On your fifth: I agree though it's not really a super reliable one as it doesn't kill early except near the ledge or offstage. Drop zone CS is fun though and very effective in some MU's. I will also add dair to the list of early kill options as well as having one of the best options for killing an opponent whose shield is broken (dirty bomb) and she can actually break shields which makes that even better.

On your sixth: I also agree with this though they have to be used sparingly since the lag on them is bad so they can be taken advantage of. Bombs are one of her best all-purpose tools.

On your seventh: Should be combined with early kill options.

A lot of the people saying Samus is the worst character just haven't seen Samus played well. That goes for a lot of the characters people claim to be worst character in the game. I would actually add a few things to the list such as a good recovery with two options (tether and up-B) as well as a recovery stall (bombs). Good offstage presence with nair sending opponents at a very bad angle, fair being a good multihit for going through airdodges, and dair as a good meteor smash plus bair stage spikes and ledge trump>bair.

She's also got zair which is one of the best spacing tools in the game. Plus, she has a frame 3 jab which a lot of characters would love to have (Zelda, Link, Dedede, etc.).

On a side note, I kinda wish people would stop arguing over who the worst character in the game is. Honestly, with smash 4 being the best balanced game in the franchise, there really isn't a worst character in the game because all the bottom tier characters can go head-to-head with each other and be fairly even. Some of the bottom tier characters can do well against mid and top tier characters (See ESAM's Samus against Larry Lurr's Luigi). There is no one character in the game that literally struggles against everyone else in the game. Sure, there's a bottom tier but no worst character within that tier.
 

Tubruh

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On your first point: Samus has no good projectiles. CS is decent but has a few things that hold it back like not being able to charge it in the air and the startup lag on it allows her to be hit and, thereby, lose the entire charge without firing anything. Her missiles are bad and need to be changed to be usable in all MU's. I guess you could call her morph ball bombs a projectile as they can be reflected but, if we're considering them to be a projectile, then they kinda fail at being a projectile (They're more like mini-zoning tools and the real strength of the move comes from momentum reversals).
I kinda agree with this. But I do think that her missles are underated. The tracking ones can be used for edge guarding (same can be said about her Super ones), some pressure, etc. CS can be good at the start of a match, when the opponent thinks that you're gonna charge it fully, you can let go and it will damage them (if they don't shield). A lot of people don't see this. I don't agree that you think that they're garbage, they have uses.

She's also got zair which is one of the best spacing tools in the game.
I can only somewhat agree. Zair is useful, but it doesn't have much range.

I like your counter points.
 

Zylach

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I kinda agree with this. But I do think that her missles are underated. The tracking ones can be used for edge guarding (same can be said about her Super ones), some pressure, etc. CS can be good at the start of a match, when the opponent thinks that you're gonna charge it fully, you can let go and it will damage them (if they don't shield). A lot of people don't see this. I don't agree that you think that they're garbage, they have uses.

I can only somewhat agree. Zair is useful, but it doesn't have much range.

I like your counter points.
I didn't say CS was garbage because it's not. It's just not a really good tool like a lot of other projectiles you see in high tier characters like Sheik's needles or the plumbers' fireballs. CS is also harder to use effectively in certain MU's where Samus gets rushed down really quickly thereby giving her little time to charge it as opposed to, again, characters like Sheik and the plumbers who don't need nearly as much time to use an, arguably, better projectile for all-around use.

Missiles though... I just can't find them to be very useful. In the customs meta, I would use the relentless missiles all the time since the homing properties on the homing missiles made them infinitely more useful. The default ones just don't have the zoning properties that would make them powerful zoning tools. The homing capability isn't really good enough allowing people to just jump over them or run under them while you're still in endlag.

Also, about zair, it's got the longest reach of any non-projectile in the game next to Palutena's usmash and Shulk's usmash/utilt but is used as a horizontal spacing tool making it more useful for that purpose than either of those. It also has next to no landing lag so proper use of it can completely outrange and shut down a lot of characters' approaches. It takes some practice to know when and how to use it but it's one of Samus' best tools.
 
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Scream

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Look, I know that the title is click-baity, but hear me out. I know Samus isn't the best, not even top 30. But I do think that she has some great things about her.

-2 good projectiles
-Good combo game
-Good aerials
-Decent landing options (Up, Down, and Neutral air)
-Fully charged Neutral B gives her a somewhat early kill move
-Bombs give good mixups, mobility, combo-material, etc.
-Good spike

Now, I can understand why people think she sucks. And I can understand. Please tell me your opinions! (Just don't be mean.)
Who are you? I have never ever seen you on these boards, neither do you seem to play samus. What is the point of this thread at all?

To give short answers:

- CS is the only good projectile she has
- True, tho not top
- What defines good aerials? Clarify, else this is a mute point
- Wow, fully charged smash give zelda a somewhat early kill move as well /s
- While bombs have their uses this is not a special samus thing, everyone has a down special(Not Zelda tho)
- Medicore spike at best

I see your point there. I do think that you can link falling up-air to a grab of smash attack, a lot of people sometime don't see that coming.
Doesn't combo into any of what you describe. Does combo into stuff tho, refer to the combo compendium

I kinda agree with this. But I do think that her missles are underated. The tracking ones can be used for edge guarding (same can be said about her Super ones), some pressure, etc. CS can be good at the start of a match, when the opponent thinks that you're gonna charge it fully, you can let go and it will damage them (if they don't shield). A lot of people don't see this. I don't agree that you think that they're garbage, they have uses.

I can only somewhat agree. Zair is useful, but it doesn't have much range.

I like your counter points.
First thing is a dumb gimmick.

Zair is like in top 5 of her whole moveset EASY. The range and safeness is absolutely stellar.

I do agree that there are more bad things about her than there are good. But I'm tired of all these tier lists (I know tiers don't matter) saying that her ans Zelda are the worst.
"tiers" DO MATTER, they give a indication for viability. What however doesn't matter is opening an uninformed, lazy thread here that amounts to nothing.

solidly mid tier character pre patch, high-mid post patch.
While i love your enthusiasm Tonetta, i think she still is in the lower to mid bracket of mid tier. <3
Keep it up tho!
 
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Hark17ball

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Don't be to mean to the guy. From someone who doesn't main her and specifically know which characters certain moves are more viable to use against. We just gotta show them our views and how we deal with them!
 

❤ Nikodemus05

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Who are you? I have never ever seen you on these boards, neither do you seem to play samus. What is the point of this thread at all?

To give short answers:

- CS is the only good projectile she has
- True, tho not top
- What defines good aerials? Clarify, else this is a mute point
- Wow, fully charged smash give zelda a somewhat early kill move as well /s
- While bombs have their uses this is not a special samus thing, everyone has a down special(Not Zelda tho)
- Medicore spike at best



Doesn't combo into any of what you describe. Does combo into stuff tho, refer to the combo compendium


First thing is a dumb gimmick.

Zair is like in top 5 of her whole moveset EASY. The range and safeness is absolutely stellar.



"tiers" DO MATTER, they give a indication for viability. What however doesn't matter is opening an uninformed, lazy thread here that amounts to nothing.



While i love your enthusiasm Tonetta, i think she still is in the lower to mid bracket of mid tier. <3
Keep it up tho!
Props for completely shutting down the guy like a ********. If there isn't insightful info guys, or it's obvious the guy doesn't know what he's talking about, try not to be rude. Please? This guy has been nothing but nice to y'all and you all just try to ****ing shut him down. This is a prime example of elitist smashboards cancer, now please quit it.
 

JAZZ_

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Who are you? I have never ever seen you on these boards, neither do you seem to play samus. What is the point of this thread at all?

To give short answers:

- CS is the only good projectile she has
- True, tho not top
- What defines good aerials? Clarify, else this is a mute point
- Wow, fully charged smash give zelda a somewhat early kill move as well /s
- While bombs have their uses this is not a special samus thing, everyone has a down special(Not Zelda tho)
- Medicore spike at best



Doesn't combo into any of what you describe. Does combo into stuff tho, refer to the combo compendium


First thing is a dumb gimmick.

Zair is like in top 5 of her whole moveset EASY. The range and safeness is absolutely stellar.



"tiers" DO MATTER, they give a indication for viability. What however doesn't matter is opening an uninformed, lazy thread here that amounts to nothing.



While i love your enthusiasm Tonetta, i think she still is in the lower to mid bracket of mid tier. <3
Keep it up tho!
Its sad to see such harshness coming from this community. Congratulations, you make me ashamed to be apart of the Samus community. How many more are going to be unnecessarily rude for no good reason?
 

Zylach

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What a turn this thread has taken. In case I came off as rude, I apologize. In no way were my comments intended to be rude. I was merely offering counterpoints to some of the points I disagreed with. I do not approve of being rude.
 

Hark17ball

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What a turn this thread has taken. In case I came off as rude, I apologize. In no way were my comments intended to be rude. I was merely offering counterpoints to some of the points I disagreed with. I do not approve of being rude.
It wasn't toward you. My response was more to Scream. To look at it from a different angle and show the non Samus Mains what we know and see from our eyes as having Samus our mains.
 
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Zylach

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It wasn't toward you. My response was more to Scream. To look at it from a different angle and show the non Samus Mains what we know and see from our eyes as having Samus our mains.
I saw some people refer to multiple people as in, "ya'll" so I thought people might have been referring to more than just him and I'm the only one that might have come off as, at all, rude.
 

JAZZ_

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I saw some people refer to multiple people as in, "ya'll" so I thought people might have been referring to more than just him and I'm the only one that might have come off as, at all, rude.
Your humility is commendable and is something we should all exercise more.
 

MOM Samus

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I kinda agree with this. But I do think that her missles are underated
Mii Gunner Missile has less lag and tracks better. If you try to Missile someone who is above you (trying to recover low), the Missile instantly becomes useless, and you just lost all chances of edge-guarding because of that lag. The Missiles hardly track, either.

If you want Missiles to gimp people out of a jump, 1. they are stupid for jumping into it. 2. use Fireballs since those seem to be way more accurate at gimping. 3. don't use Missiles for gimping. Jump offstage, use Bomb. Use your second jump for a F-air or N-air or something. Way more effective.

Not bad, though. I still go for missiles offstage (mainly because it is highly disrespectful.) ;) I've used one on a PKT2, and the Missile gimped Lucas. If you'd like, it's in a Samus montage I made a bit ago. I can show you true Missile gimps like you mentioned. I can give you the link if you want.
 
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Hark17ball

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Mii Gunner Missile has less lag and tracks better. If you try to Missile someone who is above you (trying to recover low), the Missile instantly becomes useless, and you just lost all chances of edge-guarding because of that lag. The Missiles hardly track, either.

If you want Missiles to gimp people out of a jump, 1. they are stupid for jumping into it. 2. use Fireballs since those seem to be way more accurate at gimping. 3. don't use Missiles for gimping. Jump offstage, use Bomb. Use your second jump for a F-air or N-air or something. Way more effective.

Not bad, though. I still go for missiles offstage (mainly because it is highly disrespectful.) ;) I've used one on a PKT2, and the Missile gimped Lucas. If you'd like, it's in a Samus montage I made a bit ago. I can show you true Missile gimps like you mentioned. I can give you the link if you want.
By all means show it, The more info/ideas i see the better i'd say. Gives people an idea of what they could possibly do if they are in a similar situation!
 

JAZZ_

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Mii Gunner Missile has less lag and tracks better. If you try to Missile someone who is above you (trying to recover low), the Missile instantly becomes useless, and you just lost all chances of edge-guarding because of that lag. The Missiles hardly track, either.

If you want Missiles to gimp people out of a jump, 1. they are stupid for jumping into it. 2. use Fireballs since those seem to be way more accurate at gimping. 3. don't use Missiles for gimping. Jump offstage, use Bomb. Use your second jump for a F-air or N-air or something. Way more effective.

Not bad, though. I still go for missiles offstage (mainly because it is highly disrespectful.) ;) I've used one on a PKT2, and the Missile gimped Lucas. If you'd like, it's in a Samus montage I made a bit ago. I can show you true Missile gimps like you mentioned. I can give you the link if you want.
I only use homing missiles to bait shield, which works. other than that the only time i get them out is for villager to grab so i can send in CS or when lag eats my bomb and turns it into missile
 

Tubruh

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(Sorry for not seeing the responses, I wasn't on here for a couple weeks) Jeez, alot of people are saying that I don't know what I'm talking about, because "I don't MAIN her." Well, I'm learning her as a secondary, and I'm not oblivious to the fact that I haven't posted in this thread before( Scream Scream ). I see that I wasn't giving enough detail when I was stating my points.
When I was talking about her combo game, I was thinking about her combos from D Throw, d- tilt, up tilt, zair, dash attack, etc. Speaking of Zair, I know I needed to do more research about. It IS alot better that what I thought at first. Some of her combos can go into U-Air, which can go into Up B.

Missles aren't as good as I thought. :3

Who are you? I have never ever seen you on these boards, neither do you seem to play samus. What is the point of this thread at all?
"tiers" DO MATTER, they give a indication for viability. What however doesn't matter is opening an uninformed, lazy thread here that amounts to nothing.
:facepalm:I'm just trying to see other people's views. But, that doesn't mean you need to take what I say at a personal level. Itsounded like you have something against me just because I'm trying to learn.

If there isn't insightful info guys, or it's obvious the guy doesn't know what he's talking about, try not to be rude.
I do know things about Samus, it's just that I'm not as experienced as someone that has mained her since release. But It's not like I played her for a few minutes and said some things.




While it does seem like people wanted to give me their views, it sounded like all I did was type some words and call it something. I do need to do more research before making a thread, but I was just tired of people saying that she sucks. BUT with the points from Zylach and others, It makes Samus seem alot better to those viewing, like if they were thinking about maining her and somehow coming across this thread (I don't know why they would go to my thread if they wanted tips, but still.) Thanks for some pointers! :)
 
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Annihilat®

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She doesn't really suck, but she can get locked down worse than any other character in the game. And there's really nothing she can do about it.
 

Scream

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Jeez, alot of people are saying that I don't know what I'm talking about, because "I don't MAIN her.
Not because you dont "main" her, but because i can tell from what you are saying that you are very new to her and have no idea yet.
combos from d- tilt
Not a combo starter

:facepalm:I'm just trying to see other people's views. But, that doesn't mean you need to take what I say at a personal level. Itsounded like you have something against me just because I'm trying to learn.
I did not take what you said at a personal at all. Trying to learn is not done by going to onto the forums of the people maining the charachter for a year now and that know her the best and then posting a clickbait thread stating how smart you are even though we here knew everything you said. On top of that your post was verly poorly informed.

I do know things about Samus, it's just that I'm not as experienced as someone that has mained her since release. But It's not like I played her for a few minutes and said some things.
You seem to know almost nothing. We have a huge library here. Instead of posting clickbait how about you go and read up on her?
While it does seem like people wanted to give me their views, it sounded like all I did was type some words and call it something.
You really did tho

I do need to do more research before making a thread, but I was just tired of people saying that she sucks
I am tired of people not doing their research.
And if you had stopped for a second and though about who would probably know best that she was not **** tier, this thread would not have been necessary.

Clarify please.
 
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Tubruh

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Not a combo starter
It can combo into u- air and f-air on most characters. It's somewhat difficult to do, but it's possible.
then posting a clickbait thread stating how smart you are even though we here knew everything you said.
I never stated how "smart I was". All I said was why I don't think that Samus is the worst character. And even though I already said that the title was click bait, thank you for draging on about it.

You seem to know almost nothing. We have a huge library here. Instead of posting clickbait how about you go and read up on her?
You're basically calling me an idiot, because I'm not as exepirenced? Thanks. Oh yeah, I've also had read up on Samus enough to know that she doesn't suck.
I am tired of people not doing their research.
You know I already said that I needed to do more research before posting. Here's the quote:

I do need to do more research before making a thread
See? If you actually read that tiny little detail, then you wouldn't have to waste time and call me lazy.

Clarify please.
Two words: Tier lists.
 
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Scream

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It can combo into u- air and f-air on most characters. It's somewhat difficult to do, but it's possible.

I never stated how "smart I was". All I said was why I don't think that Samus is the worst character. And even though I already said that the title was click bait, thank you for draging on about it.


You're basically calling me an idiot, because I'm not as exepirenced? Thanks. Oh yeah, I've also had read up on Samus enough to know that she doesn't suck.

You know I already said that I needed to do more research before posting. Here's the quote:



See? If you actually read that tiny little detail, then you wouldn't have to waste time and call me lazy.



Two words: Tier lists.
Dtilt does not combo into anything, inputs are not difficult because we have buffering.
If i have overlooked it please provide evidence, i'd be really happy to see it.

I am calling you an Idiot because you made a pointless thread and did not do your research. Pointing out how you have learnt your lesson neither makes it better nor makes you any less lazy.
Educanting a specialist board on their charachters viability is stupid and only makes you look like an attention *****.

I think i have made my point by now and hope to see some useful contribution as soon as you read up on the charachter.
 
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❤ Nikodemus05

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Not because you dont "main" her, but because i can tell from what you are saying that you are very new to her and have no idea yet.

Not a combo starter


I did not take what you said at a personal at all. Trying to learn is not done by going to onto the forums of the people maining the charachter for a year now and that know her the best and then posting a clickbait thread stating how smart you are even though we here knew everything you said. On top of that your post was verly poorly informed.



You seem to know almost nothing. We have a huge library here. Instead of posting clickbait how about you go and read up on her?

You really did tho


I am tired of people not doing their research.
And if you had stopped for a second and though about who would probably know best that she was not **** tier, this thread would not have been necessary.

Clarify please.
You really are persistent about being a massive, elitist ****, aren't you? My god, arguing like you are only makes you look like even more of a stubborn fool and entrenches you further. You took a light hearted topic for newcomers to the forum and turned it into a ball of elitist cancer. The reason this thread turned sour is nobody's fault but yours.

And sorry you're putting up with this ****, Tubruh Tubruh . Hopefully a mod locks this thread soon.
 
Last edited:

Annihilat®

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 23, 2015
Messages
208
I know many here are against Scream, but adding fuel to the fire doesn't make things any easier. You can still edit your comment before a mod might give you a warning.
 
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