I don't think having defensive options is a bad thing in Smash Bros.

[Jiggsbomb]

Melee is not all offensive, defensive play, has quite a big part in the meta game. It's more 50/50. But brawl was defensive palooza! That is why many people didn't like brawl ( Including me), but smash 4 has offensive options, but they are few and far in between. Why rush down on your enemy, when you can be rewarded and read them, then punish them. It's a step in the right direction, but if falls just short by a small bit. But i still like smash 4.
Will I play it competitively? Yes, I've actually won some local tournaments.
Do I prefer it over melee? God no.
Do I prefer it over brawl? God yes!

 

[Killtrox]

Melee is not all offensive, defensive play, has quite a big part in the meta game. It's more 50/50. But brawl was defensive palooza! That is why many people didn't like brawl ( Including me), but smash 4 has offensive options, but they are few and far in between. Why rush down on your enemy, when you can be rewarded and read them, then punish them. It's a step in the right direction, but if falls just short by a small bit. But i still like smash 4.
Will I play it competitively? Yes, I've actually won some local tournaments.
Do I prefer it over melee? God no.
Do I prefer it over brawl? God yes!

I definitely agree that it's preferable to Brawl.

I also think people forget that toward the beginning, many players played Melee fairly defensively, but the meta evolved. Perhaps we'll see the same thing in Sm4sh, where most players will be defensive at the start, and a few people who play offensively will simply do it so well that others will catch on.

If memory serves me, Ken stood out as an offensive Marth player when most Marths used his disjointed reach to play more defensively. Bombsoldier put Falco on the map with his incredibly aggressive playstyle, using SHFFLing to approach rather than keep opponents away.

Maybe that paradigm shift will happen with Sm4sh, but it'll take a while.

 

[Jiggsbomb]

I definitely agree that it's preferable to Brawl.

I also think people forget that toward the beginning, many players played Melee fairly defensively, but the meta evolved. Perhaps we'll see the same thing in Sm4sh, where most players will be defensive at the start, and a few people who play offensively will simply do it so well that others will catch on.

If memory serves me, Ken stood out as an offensive Marth player when most Marths used his disjointed reach to play more defensively. Bombsoldier put Falco on the map with his incredibly aggressive playstyle, using SHFFLing to approach rather than keep opponents away.

Maybe that paradigm shift will happen with Sm4sh, but it'll take a while.

Indeed, only time with tell. I personally find it really exciting!

 

[Zoa]

A lot of activity in this thread, more than I expected.



Tagxy addressed this previously, but I'd like to make my own point on this.

Shields in Smash 4 (and Brawl to an extreme) are created this way because characters who need to rush down but get past spacing (Mario, Ganondorf, Samus, etc.) need a method to play safe against characters who are quicker or have disjointed range. One of Mario's best approach options is actually shield-dashing opponents who aim to use their disjointed range against him, and the reason why this is important to know is because without that inherent shield advantage (i.e, high shieldstun and high shield pushback), characters like Mario, Ganondorf, etc. wouldn't have the ability to do anything to cover their natural disadvantages. Characters with longer range would constantly just poke their shield over and over again until they couldn't do anything.

Are there ways to work around this? Yes, though even in Melee's scene, Marth's superior range invalidated a lot of the cast, so Melee's superior speed and movement options doesn't quite help out characters when they have no way to get inside. I should also point out that Marth's superior range and aerial movement in Brawl also invalidated a good majority of the cast as well (and Metaknight to a more extreme effect).

What isn't being realized is that due to free movement and disjointed range being prevalent, having high shield stun would actually hurt a lot of the cast who can't take advantage of this, if only because not every character can have the luxury having powerful options in footsies.

(I'm too sleepy to make a huge post. **** work.)

Sorry it took me so long to get back to this. This completely slipped my mind. Been doing too much moonwalking practice on PM, thinking about expanding Lucario's metagame in it, etc. Anyways, on to this. I can see the point you're making. I agree from a defensive standpoint that certain characters really need that bit of edge to help invalidate their weaknesses. I mained G'dorf in Brawl for three years if that tells you anything.

Though because of powerful shields it discourages another pressure/offensive option. The problem I see isn't invalidating shield as a good option. It's that by buffing shield, and removing movement options, you lose out on offense and footsies even moreso. I would really like to see wavelanding implemented again as a movement option to help pressure with properly spaced aerials. Aerial landing lag is a bit too high. Properly utilized SH aerials with a waveland of sorts could go a long way for footsies in this kind of game. Characters like G'dorf have amazing aerial kits, but are sluggish.