I don't see Palutena as viable with only her default moveset.

[Rango the Mercenary]

Autoreticle is useless, Reflect is only good against projectile characters AND it can be passed over, and Counter is slower than Ike's was in Brawl. Warp is her only good special since she can evade anything, land very well, and it goes far. It's a highly reliable recovery and one of the reasons I was a big fan of Mewtwo in Melee and Project M.

She does have great aerials and grab game, and if her kill was a little more guaranteed from Dthrow to Uair, I'd be more inclined to use her.

Now, suppose Custom tournaments become a thing. Suppose tournaments where custom Palutena is allowed. Now she is equipped with lethal weapons. Explosive Flame is a superior projectile, Angelic Missile is a kill move, Celestial Firework makes for a great counter and kill move, and Lightweight can virtually guarantee a Dthrow to Uair kill. It's also great for gimping AND you can launch someone up, bait an airdodge from way up high, and kill with Uair at less than 100%.

Her juggling game is fierce, but I feel she's poorly equipped with default specials. Allowing her to use customs would be a huge help.

 

[Rashid]

You're preaching to the choir here. She's still usable without customs, but it forces every match to become a war of attrition. Maybe @ F.u.j.i.n Souls 2 can "elaborate" more.

 

[F.u.j.i.n Souls 2]

Please drop her and move onto a different character if you're going to have that mentality.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

"Autoreticle is useless"

Well I really didn't need to read anymore

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Please drop her and move onto a different character if you're going to have that mentality.

I mean, I don't exactly main her to begin with. I did, but I stopped.

"Autoreticle is useless"

Well I really didn't need to read anymore

I've yet to play a Palutena who has proven me wrong.

 

[Lil Puddin]

"Autoreticle is useless"

Well I really didn't need to read anymore

This. It is a poke and bait attack. Jumping before using it is good to confuse people. It's also very good at dwindling shields and can't be dodged easily. You do NOT use it when someone is rushing you. It's not Samus' missiles.

Her reflect is the best in the game because she can do stuff while it's out for a second. IE: poke with autoreticle

Her counter is literally the worst one in game. Small range, small counter window, huge delay. LMAO NOPENOPENOPE. Use it only to look cool or to piss predictable attackers off. IE PEEKAY THUNDA Ness, Pawnches fr Ganon/Falcon, Peach Fairs, or edgeguardy goodness. There are more... But getting a kill with this move is unlikely.

In short, overall she has BAD approaches, GREAT punishes, SOLID aerials.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

This. It is a poke and bait attack. Jumping before using it is good to confuse people. It's also very good at dwindling shields and can't be dodged easily. You do NOT use it when someone is rushing you. It's not Samus' missiles.

Her reflect is the best in the game because she can do stuff while it's out for a second. IE: poke with autoreticle

Her counter is literally the worst one in game. Small range, small counter window, huge delay. LMAO NOPENOPENOPE. Use it only to look cool or to piss predictable attackers off. IE PEEKAY THUNDA Ness, Pawnches fr Ganon/Falcon, Peach Fairs, or edgeguardy goodness. There are more... But getting a kill with this move is unlikely.

In short, overall she has BAD approaches, GREAT punishes, SOLID aerials.

It's her specials I can deal without. With customs, great character. Without customs, you said it yourself. Her Counter is bad, and you didn't address Warp, which not only has a tendency to backfire, but leaves her open. Angelic Missile can gimp, and Jump Glide is more reliable for returning to stage. I would always take the other two Side B options over Reflect any day.

 

[Lil Puddin]

It's her specials I can deal without. With customs, great character. Without customs, you said it yourself. Her Counter is bad, and you didn't address Warp, which not only has a tendency to backfire, but leaves her open. Angelic Missile can gimp, and Jump Glide is more reliable for returning to stage. I would always take the other two Side B options over Reflect any day.

I thought it was unanimous that her default UpB was ridiculously good.

It is the 2nd best UpB in terms of controlling it, the 1st being Zelda's Farore's Wind. But average with it's actual movement range. It also has no attack frames, but that really isn't an issue since it sacrifices attack for invulnerability, little delay, little startup, and great control. It's a very safe option to use for movement and recovery, but like all UpB's, it is punishable if they know where you'll be. You need to touch down on solid ground at the end, otherwise it's delay city for you.

When you whiff it, or overshoot it, that's mostly because of your way of using it. You just need to learn how stages work. The underside of some stages shoot you or . The latter of which leads to death. So you should try to fall to the furthest point Warp can go if under a stage and then use Warp diagonally. You can also just move under the ledge and Warp upwards. Get comfortable with it's range midair and you'll never whiff it... Unlike Zeldoo's Farore's Wind.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Also consider that I've had next to no serious competition fighting Palutena players. Every one of them had solid fundamentals (spacing Fairs, Bair and dash attacks), but they all died the same way. Either they couldn't get DThrow - Uair to work in time, they attempted a punishable Smash, SD from Warp, or got punished for using it.

 

[Lil Puddin]

Also consider that I've had next to no serious competition fighting Palutena players. Every one of them had solid fundamentals (spacing Fairs, Bair and dash attacks), but they all died the same way. Either they couldn't get DThrow - Uair to work in time, they attempted a punishable Smash, SD from Warp, or got punished for using it.

Why use a character that requires MU knowledge and intimate attack option knowledge when you can play Diddy, Sheik, ZSS, etc?

Palutena is not a panic friendly character. You panic, you die. So it makes tons of sense as to why P-Money is never played to her full or consistent potential. You also need good mind games/reads. You can have fundamentals down easily, but mind games tread into advanced knowledge/skill/luck territory.

Competing becomes even harder for her because top tiers are very panic friendly thanks to their low delay moves. So while Palutena's opponent is having an anxiety fueled panic spam session, they can actually still win. :l

If you can't work with her kit and keep a leveled head, you're not getting anywhere.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

I don't play Diddy/Sheik/ZSS because I don't like them. I don't play Palutena as much as I used to because I dislike her lack of viable options. You made it sound like she's constantly at a disadvantage - at least, as I've stated time and time again, without her custom specials. Meaning, with those, she's fine. Default moveset cripples her.

 

[Lavani]

Her counter is literally the worst one in game. Small range, small counter window, huge delay. LMAO NOPENOPENOPE. Use it only to look cool or to piss predictable attackers off. IE PEEKAY THUNDA Ness, Pawnches fr Ganon/Falcon, Peach Fairs, or edgeguardy goodness. There are more... But getting a kill with this move is unlikely.

Welp, guess it's time for this post to happen:

Character | Counter Frames | Invincible | Base Damage | Damage Multiplier | KBG | BKB
Palutena | 10-31f | 10-16f | 10% | x1.3 | 75, 65 | 40, 20
Ike | 09-35f | 09-16f | 09% | x1.2 | 74 | 48
Greninja | 08-29f | 08-18f | 14%, 13%, or 11% | No scaling | 100, 72 | 62, 50
Marth/Lucina | 03-16f | No invuln | 08% | x1.2 | 60 | 90
Little Mac | 04-20f | No invuln | 10% | x1.3 | 50 | 90
Lucario | 05-40f |No invuln | 11% | No scaling | 108 | 60
Shulk | 07-??f | No invuln | 13%, 10% or 7% | x1.3 | 94, 84, 84 | 70

Comparatively, Palutena's counter is slow to start and is on the low end knockback wise, but is also one of the higher damage counters (only losing to Shulk's sweetspot counter) with a generous counter window (larger than Marth/Lucina/Mac, tied with Greninja), and is one of the few with invincibility to protect her from unblockables.

If anyone has the worst counter, it's Ike. Only 1 frame faster and less rewarding on hit.

I thought it was unanimous that her default UpB was ridiculously good.

It is the 2nd best UpB in terms of controlling it, the 1st being Zelda's Farore's Wind. But average with it's actual movement range. It also has no attack frames, but that really isn't an issue since it sacrifices attack for invulnerability, little delay, little startup, and great control. It's a very safe option to use for movement and recovery, but like all UpB's, it is punishable if they know where you'll be.

"2nd best UpB in terms of controlling it"? I don't follow. Recoveries like Extremespeed, Quick Attack, and Dimensional Cape give you more versatile movement options than Warp does, with the bonus function of offensive presence if need be. And the lack of offensive presence is kind of a big deal; once Palutena presses upB, there's nothing preventing opponents from trying to hit you out of ledgesnap vulnerability or getting in position to ledge trump. Even in Zelda's case, she can at least delay her ledgesnap for a bit so Farore's reappearing hitbox covers her briefly.

Warp is "safe", but it's non-threatening and exploitable and isn't the best recovery distance-wise either.

 

[xnine]

Hurray for the great damage multiplier. I've always heard that it had a good multiplier on it, and it's pretty cool to see it stacked against the others.

The start up and knockback is... not great, but at least Ike's is slower. What do the invincibility frames do? I didn't realize there were things that couldn't be countered.

 

[Lavani]

What do the invincibility frames do? I didn't realize there were things that couldn't be countered.

Saves you from unblockable hits. Smart Bombs are the easy confirmation method; I would imagine KO Punch is invulned too, but I haven't confirmed that yet. I would also assume it saves you from being grabbed out of the counter.

EDIT: Yep, invulns through KO Punch. Didn't confirm grabs yet.

EDIT: Also invulns through grabs.

 

[Macchiato]

Saves you from unblockable hits. Smart Bombs are the easy confirmation method; I would imagine KO Punch is invulned too, but I haven't confirmed that yet. I would also assume it saves you from being grabbed out of the counter.

It does block the KO punch

Autoreticle is useless, Reflect is only good against projectile characters AND it can be passed over, and Counter is slower than Ike's was in Brawl. Warp is her only good special since she can evade anything, land very well, and it goes far. It's a highly reliable recovery and one of the reasons I was a big fan of Mewtwo in Melee and Project M.

She does have great aerials and grab game, and if her kill was a little more guaranteed from Dthrow to Uair, I'd be more inclined to use her.

Now, suppose Custom tournaments become a thing. Suppose tournaments where custom Palutena is allowed. Now she is equipped with lethal weapons. Explosive Flame is a superior projectile, Angelic Missile is a kill move, Celestial Firework makes for a great counter and kill move, and Lightweight can virtually guarantee a Dthrow to Uair kill. It's also great for gimping AND you can launch someone up, bait an airdodge from way up high, and kill with Uair at less than 100%.

Her juggling game is fierce, but I feel she's poorly equipped with default specials. Allowing her to use customs would be a huge help.

Auto-Reticle is a great baiting tool. It can also poke at your opponent and limit their shield. Its hard to dodge and yew can mix up the projectile by jumping. Its good for camping too and can force approaches. It is nowhere near useless.
Reflect Barrier can gimp some characters like ike and Kirby due to the windbox. It also can limit some moves like spindash or raptor boost. As a reflector, its the best reflector smash has ever had.
At some percents dthrow to usmash is a true combo. jab to usmash or fsmash is also a great tool. She has no problem killing.
Counter, just look at @ Lavani 's chart above.
Explosive Flame isn't superior, it's as good.

 

[xnine]

Saves you from unblockable hits. Smart Bombs are the easy confirmation method; I would imagine KO Punch is invulned too, but I haven't confirmed that yet. I would also assume it saves you from being grabbed out of the counter.

EDIT: Yep, invulns through KO Punch. Didn't confirm grabs yet.

EDIT: Also invulns through grabs.

Woooow, that's pretty cool! Even through grabs!

 

[Bizbang]

Auto-reticle has its limitations, but far from useless. It has stopped many a B-forward from Diddys, and is one of the few projectiles Villager is punished for pocketing. And the counter has been incredibly useful. I'm not sure how to describe the momentum, but I'm actually able to drop into Smashes when trying to land with it.

Sure, Palutena requires work, but I have a feeling that ceiling is high. The game is only 3 and half months old.

 

[Admiral Pit]

Well I return to scout around here and this is what happens? I guess it's time for a little divine intervention.

As a person that's been wandering around Default Palutena for a longer time than experimenting with customs, she is not terrible as default, but rather difficult to work with, but still has her capabilities.


-Autoreticle
"Autoreticle is useless"

Or maybe players don't know how to use it right, or at the right time. Granted it may not be used much against some characters (speedy characters for example), but it has its uses. Some players that I play know that I like to dash away and pivot Autoreticle in hopes of the opponent leaving himself open and that's free 8-9% damage right there. It's good in the right hands and the right time. Just don't expect to use it much in some matchups.
And to compare it to Explosive Flame, it's not as laggy as it, even though it can't stab through shields like it. I can't say much more about it.

-Reflect Barrier
While it is true that projectiles can go over Reflect Barrier, it still is a good move. So for those who hate this move, I "Reflect" your hate with it, because I love it. Some players that have played me before know that I do like my Reflect Barrier. So here's some properties that you need to know.
Reflect Barrier not only is a reflector, but it also can push opponents away if they touch it, which is actually decent against some recoveries, but here's the one thing some of you may not know. There's a hitbox just before the barrier comes out and guess what?
It WILL IGNORE ENEMY SHIELDS and damage the opponent directly and push them away!
So you have someone shielding? Use this move and knock them outta shield without having to rely on grabs all the time. It's risky, and only the fastest of players or something can react quickly enough to get back at you, but it has its uses. Utilizing it well can open the door to new possibilities. And yes, Jab > Reflect does work at decent percents, and it's really good against opponents that are near the ledge. Pretty much just push em off. I'm actually eager to try this move outta shield and see if it works.
Did I mention Reflect Barrier hits opponents even when they're shielding? Actually I know I did. I just have to repeat it because this is a big thing some don't know about the move. It's recommended your opponent has a fair amount of damage so they have less chances of hitting you before Reflect's lag wears off. Then again, not many players have that fast of reflexes, but be careful nonetheless.

-Counter
It is one of the laggier Counters, we know that, but as shown above in that chart, it does have a great damage multiplier. It's risky, but find the right opening and predict well, and it will pay off. It's the same with any counter move, right?
Also, it can be used to stop Ike's Up-B recovery generally and potentially can KO him. Then again, Marth did this first in Brawl. We just inherited it.

-Warp
Yes, it can be used to escape some situations, especially if Pally's in the air with the opponent below her. That's usually the main use of this move besides recovering. And of course, there's Warp Canceling. Risky? Yes. You may lose a stock if you mess up, but with enough practice and utilizing it well can make your Palutena harder to predict. This is really good to use on BF and Halberd IMO, though definitely on BF. Players that have played me know that I do like to do this, and it can be hard to predict me sometimes due to the extra options.
Warp Cancel to pivot Autoreticle? It can be done in the right situation. Warp Cancel to F-air or B-air depending on where the opponent is? Definitely. You gotta be quick and observant while having good practice with this, as well as choosing the right times to do it with the right action afterwards to make use of it. Personally, I think this trick can help improve Palutena, but I just don't think many ppl are willing to risk it. Sure, missing it may cause you a stock, but that's what practice is for. Besides, it wouldn't hurt to experiment with it, even merely in training mode. I can say this though. This trick isn't for everyone.


All in all, Default Palutena, while she may not be the best one, she definitely should not be underestimated, especially in some matchups. In the right hands, and with enough knowledge, she can be utilized quite well, and I for one support Default Pally's potential, which I hope will be unlocked one day.
And keep in mind that Palutena herself is definitely not a beginner character, and requires time to be effective with due to her very high learning curve, which is tough as is, but I have faith in her potential.

 

[Monstring]

-Reflect Barrier
While it is true that projectiles can go over Reflect Barrier, it still is a good move. So for those who hate this move, I "Reflect" your hate with it, because I love it. Some players that have played me before know that I do like my Reflect Barrier. So here's some properties that you need to know.
Reflect Barrier not only is a reflector, but it also can push opponents away if they touch it, which is actually decent against some recoveries, but here's the one thing some of you may not know. There's a hitbox just before the barrier comes out and guess what?
It WILL IGNORE ENEMY SHIELDS and damage the opponent directly and push them away!
So you have someone shielding? Use this move and knock them outta shield without having to rely on grabs all the time. It's risky, and only the fastest of players or something can react quickly enough to get back at you, but it has its uses. Utilizing it well can open the door to new possibilities. And yes, Jab > Reflect does work at decent percents, and it's really good against opponents that are near the ledge. Pretty much just push em off. I'm actually eager to try this move outta shield and see if it works.
Did I mention Reflect Barrier hits opponents even when they're shielding? Actually I know I did. I just have to repeat it because this is a big thing some don't know about the move. It's recommended your opponent has a fair amount of damage so they have less chances of hitting you before Reflect's lag wears off. Then again, not many players have that fast of reflexes, but be careful nonetheless.

Waaaaaita minutehere... this is news to me or maybe i misunderstood that

Are you telling me that if an opponent shields (as in, presses and holds the R button preparing for a grab punish) and I use my reflect too close to him, it will still hit him? If so, then i honestly didnt know about this earlier o.0

 

[Admiral Pit]

Waaaaaita minutehere... this is news to me or maybe i misunderstood that

Are you telling me that if an opponent shields (as in, presses and holds the R button preparing for a grab punish) and I use my reflect too close to him, it will still hit him? If so, then i honestly didnt know about this earlier o.0

Correct, but remember the hitbox is at close range, just before the barrier comes out. Try it out in Training mode if you can, and watch the target get knocked outta shield like that.

Bonus: For those who play Smash Run, you can hit the Octorok, Bumpity Bomb, and Mettaur (the Megaman enemy with the helmet) outta their protection points as well.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

there are octoroks in this game? awesome https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mHw5g55oC4#t=33

 

[MagiusNecros]

Saves you from unblockable hits. Smart Bombs are the easy confirmation method; I would imagine KO Punch is invulned too, but I haven't confirmed that yet. I would also assume it saves you from being grabbed out of the counter.

EDIT: Yep, invulns through KO Punch. Didn't confirm grabs yet.

EDIT: Also invulns through grabs.

This is pretty beast.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Well I return to scout around here and this is what happens? I guess it's time for a little divine intervention.

As a person that's been wandering around Default Palutena for a longer time than experimenting with customs, she is not terrible as default, but rather difficult to work with, but still has her capabilities.


-Autoreticle
"Autoreticle is useless"

Or maybe players don't know how to use it right, or at the right time. Granted it may not be used much against some characters (speedy characters for example), but it has its uses. Some players that I play know that I like to dash away and pivot Autoreticle in hopes of the opponent leaving himself open and that's free 8-9% damage right there. It's good in the right hands and the right time. Just don't expect to use it much in some matchups.
And to compare it to Explosive Flame, it's not as laggy as it, even though it can't stab through shields like it. I can't say much more about it.

-Reflect Barrier
While it is true that projectiles can go over Reflect Barrier, it still is a good move. So for those who hate this move, I "Reflect" your hate with it, because I love it. Some players that have played me before know that I do like my Reflect Barrier. So here's some properties that you need to know.
Reflect Barrier not only is a reflector, but it also can push opponents away if they touch it, which is actually decent against some recoveries, but here's the one thing some of you may not know. There's a hitbox just before the barrier comes out and guess what?
It WILL IGNORE ENEMY SHIELDS and damage the opponent directly and push them away!
So you have someone shielding? Use this move and knock them outta shield without having to rely on grabs all the time. It's risky, and only the fastest of players or something can react quickly enough to get back at you, but it has its uses. Utilizing it well can open the door to new possibilities. And yes, Jab > Reflect does work at decent percents, and it's really good against opponents that are near the ledge. Pretty much just push em off. I'm actually eager to try this move outta shield and see if it works.
Did I mention Reflect Barrier hits opponents even when they're shielding? Actually I know I did. I just have to repeat it because this is a big thing some don't know about the move. It's recommended your opponent has a fair amount of damage so they have less chances of hitting you before Reflect's lag wears off. Then again, not many players have that fast of reflexes, but be careful nonetheless.

-Counter
It is one of the laggier Counters, we know that, but as shown above in that chart, it does have a great damage multiplier. It's risky, but find the right opening and predict well, and it will pay off. It's the same with any counter move, right?
Also, it can be used to stop Ike's Up-B recovery generally and potentially can KO him. Then again, Marth did this first in Brawl. We just inherited it.

-Warp
Yes, it can be used to escape some situations, especially if Pally's in the air with the opponent below her. That's usually the main use of this move besides recovering. And of course, there's Warp Canceling. Risky? Yes. You may lose a stock if you mess up, but with enough practice and utilizing it well can make your Palutena harder to predict. This is really good to use on BF and Halberd IMO, though definitely on BF. Players that have played me know that I do like to do this, and it can be hard to predict me sometimes due to the extra options.
Warp Cancel to pivot Autoreticle? It can be done in the right situation. Warp Cancel to F-air or B-air depending on where the opponent is? Definitely. You gotta be quick and observant while having good practice with this, as well as choosing the right times to do it with the right action afterwards to make use of it. Personally, I think this trick can help improve Palutena, but I just don't think many ppl are willing to risk it. Sure, missing it may cause you a stock, but that's what practice is for. Besides, it wouldn't hurt to experiment with it, even merely in training mode. I can say this though. This trick isn't for everyone.


All in all, Default Palutena, while she may not be the best one, she definitely should not be underestimated, especially in some matchups. In the right hands, and with enough knowledge, she can be utilized quite well, and I for one support Default Pally's potential, which I hope will be unlocked one day.
And keep in mind that Palutena herself is definitely not a beginner character, and requires time to be effective with due to her very high learning curve, which is tough as is, but I have faith in her potential.

You've shown me your Palutena. I wasn't impressed.

Every one of her default specials leaves her wide open. You don't just "hope" a character's potential will be unlocked one day. It either is, or it isn't. Fox and Falco are two examples of characters who are better than players are giving them credit for. Palutena is bumped down for a reason.

You're basically telling me I have to play like this and that - in other words, overly cautious. That's the main factor of a lower-tier character. You have to constantly respect the matchup because you're out of advantages. Palutena has very few good matchups, such as Duck Hunt, where Reflect is actually useful, not situational.

Without her customs, Palutena is without her true potential. Having used her as a secondary since the 3DS version came out, I know what she is and isn't capable of. And while her A-game is good, her specials leave her a sitting duck.

 

[Admiral Pit]

You've shown me your Palutena. I wasn't impressed.

Every one of her default specials leaves her wide open. You don't just "hope" a character's potential will be unlocked one day. It either is, or it isn't. Fox and Falco are two examples of characters who are better than players are giving them credit for. Palutena is bumped down for a reason.

You're basically telling me I have to play like this and that - in other words, overly cautious. That's the main factor of a lower-tier character. You have to constantly respect the matchup because you're out of advantages. Palutena has very few good matchups, such as Duck Hunt, where Reflect is actually useful, not situational.

Without her customs, Palutena is without her true potential. Having used her as a secondary since the 3DS version came out, I know what she is and isn't capable of. And while her A-game is good, her specials leave her a sitting duck.

I'm not going to respond to that...

There actually is hope, when things are discovered. Brawl Diddy and Snake weren't generally in the top ranks until stuff for them were discovered, such as Glidetossing bananas and the Mortar Slide thing. Olimar wasn't higher up til later on. The same scenario can happen for some characters in this game as well, and I consider Palutena to be one of them. Sure it may take a while, but I'm sure it'll happen eventually over time, except that I expect Palutena to be among mid tier ranks at best with her defaults.

I'm not going to tell anyone to do this or that as far as playstyle goes. I'm only providing information on the different uses the default customs have, which many ppl have been bashing for a long time. It's up to the player to decide on how their own style works and to use the specials using the information I have provided that they see fit.

While I must agree that she isn't at her best without customs (not to mention unique customs IS one of her gimmicks), that doesn't mean Default Palutena should be thrown out like that and insulted all the time. Each special has its uses, even Heavenly Light which is probably her most useless competitive move ever and should never be used (even though it dominates in Trophy Rush). Some specials are better in different matchups than others, simply put. And yes, her default specials do have lag, but they're definitely not useless. Utilizing the moves correctly and at the right time will prove its uses. This goes for relatively any character's move. And again, Palutena has a high learning curve, so having difficulties using her is understandable. From what I'm reading, maybe she's not the character for you.

 

[Wintropy]

OP has an opinion. Other people have opinions.

Okay, we all have opinions. And our opinions are equally valid.

If you don't like Palutena's default moveset, that's fine. Nobody's forcing you to sit down and play as her if you don't want to.

Likewise, if OP doesn't see Palutena's default moveset as competitively viable, we're not going to convince him otherwise. Let him play with whomever he wants to play.

 

[MagiusNecros]

With Palutena's neutral Specials you can easily say she is a more defensive character that focuses on complete control of the everything. Ramped up to 11 when you consider 2 of those specials counters projectiles and the other counters basically any physical attack if you have precision. And even the unblockables.

Furthermore some of her attacks grant Palutena some invincibility. Mainly Dash Attack and Bair.

 

[AnchorTea]

Autoreticle is useless, Reflect is only good against projectile characters AND it can be passed over, and Counter is slower than Ike's was in Brawl. Warp is her only good special since she can evade anything, land very well, and it goes far. It's a highly reliable recovery and one of the reasons I was a big fan of Mewtwo in Melee and Project M.

She does have great aerials and grab game, and if her kill was a little more guaranteed from Dthrow to Uair, I'd be more inclined to use her.

Now, suppose Custom tournaments become a thing. Suppose tournaments where custom Palutena is allowed. Now she is equipped with lethal weapons. Explosive Flame is a superior projectile, Angelic Missile is a kill move, Celestial Firework makes for a great counter and kill move, and Lightweight can virtually guarantee a Dthrow to Uair kill. It's also great for gimping AND you can launch someone up, bait an airdodge from way up high, and kill with Uair at less than 100%.

Her juggling game is fierce, but I feel she's poorly equipped with default specials. Allowing her to use customs would be a huge help.

Has your parents ever told you to never jump into conclusions?

 

[Enrel]

It's really hard to say if she's viable. She has good match ups believe it or not! But most of the stuff she fights against can also just trump her. It's a bit disheartening, because from the start of her appearance I've wanted her to be really good. It's like Sakurai forgot to make at least one of his characters would be broken top tier again.

 

[RedCap-BlueSpikes]

I dunno man, watching Ryo's Palutena and hearing about the success some others leads me to believe she's pretty decent. I've also been speaking to a few good Palutena players as well as people that have one in their region to make sure it's not just me, and so far most of them seem to agree with me (some even echoed my current thoughts).

Interestingly enough, Ryo prefers fighting Diddy with Palutena over Ike (his main) and Captain Falcon. Plus, he's actually been producing results:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bB_vToRXIZk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7tug62o5ZI

 

[Sodo]

Autoreticle is useless

I thought the same as you until I saw this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8sioJwBVKo

Having never played Palutena before a couple days ago, I thought Autoreticle was hands down the worst move in the game. It wasn't until I started looking up competitive (and default) Palutenas that I really understood what it was supposed to do.

The user in this video, in my opinion, perfectly displays how the move works. It's not intended to rack up huge damage (even though it does in this video incidentally), it's meant to take away opposing mobility options. Against certain characters, this is devastating. I've been messing around with it online and it's pretty comical at times. Palutena can use Autoreticle to force the opponent to make a move and open up the rest of her game, which as you mentioned already isn't all that bad. While FG is by no means a place to test/decide the "viability" of a character, I think this shows that default Palutena may not be as weak of a character as you think.

As others have mentioned though, everyone has differing opinions. I hope you eventually find a character you like, or maybe even stick with Palutena a little longer and see what comes of it.