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I don't know if this has been discovered yet.

XOSugar

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 30, 2014
Messages
65
If you don't fast fall out of short hop and f-air or b-air immediately, there's virtually zero landing lag. You can throw out tilts, jab combos, and even a dropkick the second you land. Here's a video of stuff you can do. Taken with iPhone, sorry.
 

MOI-ARI

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 12, 2013
Messages
912
Location
Up yours, kid.
NNID
TAISH0U
3DS FC
3523-2502-7558
Weird ive never seen a bowser player do that on FG yet. My friend plays as bowser, but never pulls that on me. Its new to me to say the least.
 

XOSugar

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 30, 2014
Messages
65
You can also b-air or f-air spam.
BAIRS ON BAIRS ON BAIRS ON BAIRS.
 
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XOSugar

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 30, 2014
Messages
65
Warning Received
Weird ive never seen a bowser player do that on FG yet. My friend plays as bowser, but never pulls that on me. Its new to me to say the least.
Oh God, I hope I discovered this.
 

MagiusNecros

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 16, 2014
Messages
3,176
Already knew this. I believe I explained this in regards to keeping momentum when clanking out attacks like Max Aura Sphere's and Samus Charge Shots with Bair.

But yes you can go into another attack with SH Bair and Fair. Fair on confirm will transition into Fsmash or Bowser Bomb or anything for an easy early game combo.

But if anyone did not know this before then it is good that you bring it up.
 
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XOSugar

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 30, 2014
Messages
65
Already knew this. I believe I explained this in regards to keeping momentum when clanking out attacks like Max Aura Sphere's and Samus Charge Shots with Bair.

But yes you can go into another attack with SH Bair and Fair. Fair on confirm will transition into Fsmash or Bowser Bomb or anything for an easy early game combo.

But if anyone did not know this before then it is good that you bring it up.
Lol, well shoot.
 

MagiusNecros

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 16, 2014
Messages
3,176
Weird ive never seen a bowser player do that on FG yet. My friend plays as bowser, but never pulls that on me. Its new to me to say the least.
Well Bowser players on FG are scarce and I don't do FG anymore. My Amiibo's give me greater challenge since they can read my inputs flawlessly and humans generally can't.

------------------------

Kinda wish I could make video's reliably. I have some couple gimmicky stuff I like doing. Like 22-35% damage Aerial Fortress's on anything that isn't a small character. Works on all but like 9 characters.
 
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Karsticles

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 9, 2008
Messages
386
Location
Colorado
NNID
Karsticles
Well Bowser players on FG are scarce and I don't do FG anymore. My Amiibo's give me greater challenge since they can read my inputs flawlessly and humans generally can't.

------------------------

Kinda wish I could make video's reliably. I have some couple gimmicky stuff I like doing. Like 22-35% damage Aerial Fortress's on anything that isn't a small character. Works on all but like 9 characters.
How is this a thing?

OP, this stuff is literally launch day tech.
 
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MagiusNecros

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 16, 2014
Messages
3,176
I'll just copy paste this over from the other topic on my Aerial Fortress shenanigans if you guys are interested.

------------------

Now I know you guys probably have no reason to ever use Aerial Fortress as an attack option as in a high level match it will be very unreliable to hit however on a successful punish especially on mid height to the heavies off a short hop you can use Aerial Fortress for an easy on average 22%-29% damage. And on flat stages you can possibly spin on over and grab the ledge although you run the chance of falling to your doom anyway. Or get punished. Or land on a platform and be safe. But it's a +25 damage which is always great.

Would I recommend it on a speedy character like Sheik or ZSS? No. Small characters? You'll miss so no. But heavies like DDD, Ganon, Ike and others? Yes.

Once hit a player is gonna take a chunk of damage and they can DI all they want because it won't matter.

See Bowser has combos!

Also worth noting that since the first hit is strong that's why it can clank out stuff like Villager's Bowling Ball. That first hit dealing 12% damage.

On very rare occasions it can kill with the first hit in the like 180%ish range but it'll never happen since the next hits happen immediately and have fixed go nowhere knockback.

Tested the entire roster. Running Short Hop Up B will hit everyone reliably except for Diddy Kong, Mr. Game and Watch, Duck Hunt, Pikachu, Greninja, Jigglypuff, Kirby, Meta Knight, Olimar, Pacman.

You can hit Diddy and Pac sometimes but it isn't worth it since you can whiff easily.

Free 20%-30% damage on a confirmed hit though. Percentage doesn't matter and you can't DI out of it. Well you can. But not after taking the bulk of the damage.
 

BSL

B-B-B-BLAMM!!!
Joined
Feb 28, 2010
Messages
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Location
Baton Rouge
NNID
bsl883
3DS FC
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They call this auto cancelling. Full hop nair does it too.

Short hop air dodge autocancels into special moves as well.
 

Jerodak

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 10, 2013
Messages
1,098
Location
North Carolina
NNID
Jerodak
3DS FC
1633-5601-9085
I'm new here. :( I didn't see anyone doing it either.
It's actually possible to auto cancel with a fast fall if you know the timing. It's the same timing for both Fair and Bair, but it's easier to learn it with Fair because you have a visual que. You want to wait till about half a second after the arm he isn't slashing with finishes raising up behind him and you can fast fall, you'll want to practice fast falling when the Fair misses and when it hits because the timing changes when you hit with it due to hit lag. The same goes for Bair, but the timing both both aerial's fast falls are still the same. This tech is useful, because it turns Fair to Jab and Fair to Ftilt into a true combo at lowish percents and those extra frames you shave off can make the difference of getting punished or not. This won't make your moves safe on shield though, so be careful in those situations.
 

XOSugar

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 30, 2014
Messages
65
It's actually possible to auto cancel with a fast fall if you know the timing. It's the same timing for both Fair and Bair, but it's easier to learn it with Fair because you have a visual que. You want to wait till about half a second after the arm he isn't slashing with finishes raising up behind him and you can fast fall, you'll want to practice fast falling when the Fair misses and when it hits because the timing changes when you hit with it due to hit lag. The same goes for Bair, but the timing both both aerial's fast falls are still the same. This tech is useful, because it turns Fair to Jab and Fair to Ftilt into a true combo at lowish percents and those extra frames you shave off can make the difference of getting punished or not. This won't make your moves safe on shield though, so be careful in those situations.
Is it possible to roll away or fortress after landing, or does shield produce lag?

Okay, so there's something I learned from this: I did not discover anything. There are known techs out there.

I did, however, discover that all of these techs exist through communication on this board and there is no video demonstration that I know of. Did anyone want to team up to produce an all-inclusive Bowser video demonstration?
 
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Jerodak

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 10, 2013
Messages
1,098
Location
North Carolina
NNID
Jerodak
3DS FC
1633-5601-9085
Is it possible to roll away or fortress after landing, or does shield produce lag?

Okay, so there's something I learned from this: I did not discover anything. There are known techs out there.

I did, however, discover that all of these techs exist through communication on this board and there is no video demonstration that I know of. Did anyone want to team up to produce an all-inclusive Bowser video demonstration?
When you hit a shield the hitlag vs the shield stun that the opponent takes leaves you negative in that situation, using retreating aerials, especially retreating Bair, might be a lot safer though, especially if your opponent tries to shield grab you, you can fast-fall outside of their grab range and dtilt them for it.

Also, don't worry about this being known already, I hope this didn't discourage you from continuing to look for new tech to share with the boards. I'm sure everyone here appreciates the thought behind it at least, and you never know when you might happen upon something that no one knows about yet. If you're willing to create videos that demonstrate different tech and Bowser basics then that would be a very welcome edition.
 

Karsticles

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 9, 2008
Messages
386
Location
Colorado
NNID
Karsticles
I'll just copy paste this over from the other topic on my Aerial Fortress shenanigans if you guys are interested.

------------------

Now I know you guys probably have no reason to ever use Aerial Fortress as an attack option as in a high level match it will be very unreliable to hit however on a successful punish especially on mid height to the heavies off a short hop you can use Aerial Fortress for an easy on average 22%-29% damage. And on flat stages you can possibly spin on over and grab the ledge although you run the chance of falling to your doom anyway. Or get punished. Or land on a platform and be safe. But it's a +25 damage which is always great.

Would I recommend it on a speedy character like Sheik or ZSS? No. Small characters? You'll miss so no. But heavies like DDD, Ganon, Ike and others? Yes.

Once hit a player is gonna take a chunk of damage and they can DI all they want because it won't matter.

See Bowser has combos!

Also worth noting that since the first hit is strong that's why it can clank out stuff like Villager's Bowling Ball. That first hit dealing 12% damage.

On very rare occasions it can kill with the first hit in the like 180%ish range but it'll never happen since the next hits happen immediately and have fixed go nowhere knockback.

Tested the entire roster. Running Short Hop Up B will hit everyone reliably except for Diddy Kong, Mr. Game and Watch, Duck Hunt, Pikachu, Greninja, Jigglypuff, Kirby, Meta Knight, Olimar, Pacman.

You can hit Diddy and Pac sometimes but it isn't worth it since you can whiff easily.

Free 20%-30% damage on a confirmed hit though. Percentage doesn't matter and you can't DI out of it. Well you can. But not after taking the bulk of the damage.
Oh, so literally just aerial fortress. I thought it was a trick I didn't know. :p
 

XOSugar

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 30, 2014
Messages
65
When you hit a shield the hitlag vs the shield stun that the opponent takes leaves you negative in that situation, using retreating aerials, especially retreating Bair, might be a lot safer though, especially if your opponent tries to shield grab you, you can fast-fall outside of their grab range and dtilt them for it.

Also, don't worry about this being known already, I hope this didn't discourage you from continuing to look for new tech to share with the boards. I'm sure everyone here appreciates the thought behind it at least, and you never know when you might happen upon something that no one knows about yet. If you're willing to create videos that demonstrate different tech and Bowser basics then that would be a very welcome edition.
I'll start a thread later pooling together techs and utility for every move so that I can gather information more efficiently. I'm also thinking about asking people here to submit gameplay clips to use as examples.
 

Jerodak

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 10, 2013
Messages
1,098
Location
North Carolina
NNID
Jerodak
3DS FC
1633-5601-9085
I'll start a thread later pooling together techs and utility for every move so that I can gather information more efficiently. I'm also thinking about asking people here to submit gameplay clips to use as examples.
That's actually what the Moveset and Metagame discussion is for, I started that thread so that there would be a H.U.B of information available so that the information would be more regularly available. Feel free to check it out, and let me or anyone else on the boards know if you have questions or concerns.
 

Captain Justice

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 7, 2014
Messages
54
Location
Ft. Worth, Texas
NNID
Nacholovr
3DS FC
1848-1848-8415
This technique is very useful. @ Volimutt Volimutt posted another technique detailing dashing after Bowser's jabs (http://smashboards.com/threads/neat-little-mechanic-for-bowser.393112/) that compliments this nicely. A short-hop fair can be followed by a single jab into a delayed dash attack by combining these two methods. Haven't done much testing, but this works on heavier characters at low percents for around 27 damage. It might not be the most viable technique, but it can add a little variety to your game. The trick is to remember to move forward while in the air so that you land with your opponent. If your opponent starts predicting and shielding, you can easily do a short dash and and then a grounded Bowser Bomb. From my experiences, Bowser Bomb breaks shields quite often if you land all of the hitboxes while grounded. Great find!

EDIT: SH-Fair->Jab->Grounded Bowser Bomb can do 41% damage
 
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Jay Pay

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 6, 2015
Messages
5
Location
Lisbon, Portugal
Wow this was really useful, the FAIR approach with this helped me a ton in the Megaman matchup, that is -in my opinion- one of Bowser's worst MUs. Great find :D
 
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