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Huge upcoming research project

ArcaneAxcell

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Aug 2, 2015
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Hello fellow Brawler mains. I'm not sure this is the right place to post this but this seems to be the most active place in terms of Mii discussion and I figured this would be the easiest way to get my message across.

First, let me introduce myself. This is my first time posting on Smashboards, but I've been a lurker for a long time now, learning about the game and the community. In my local scene (which is relatively small), I'm pretty well known as "The Analyst". I over analyze every single thing in this game. About 20 minutes into the most recent patch I discovered a new Luigi combo that does about 60% on all characters and is GUARANTEED (percents vary, window is very small, and landing hits is difficult. But it does work, I've tested it many times over). If people want to know something about the game they usually come to me. I'm not actually very good in practice, as I've only been seriously competitive for about 3 months. But I've still been in the scene for a long time and I've been collecting information probably since this game came out. I'm very seldom about sharing my work unless specifically asked though. But this is just too good to pass up.

So, ever since MLG announced Mii customization, I've finally picked the character back up again, and my god does it feel good. I've been playing around so much recently and I've discovered a million new things that I didn't know last time I played Brawler (or any Miis). I put in about 3 hours of Brawler experiments every day, trying to find new ways to optimize the character. And through my research, I've found more than I bargained for. I won't go into many details right now, as my information is still very fresh and not very organized, but I may have found answers that could potentially help us get Miis fully legal (Height and Weight included), and I may have also found answers that completely nullify everything we previously thought about how the Miis work. Like I said this is still relatively new information (about a couple days old), but I feel this is exactly the kind of push we need.

If I tried to explain everything now, it would be very jumbled, confusing, and may make our chances at legality worse, so I'm planning a full investigation into Miis and how they work.

I will be researching EVERY single possible Mii customization, down to the last tick in Mii Maker, with every possible custom moveset. This means over 1000 different Mii variations. I will be researching their frame data, damage, knockback, hitbox and hurtbox sizes, mobility, combo potential, etc. I'm going to try and take Miis apart as best as I can and try and put an end to this debate about Miis not being "logistically viable" or however it's being worded. When I'm done with this project it will probably not change how most anti-Mii people view the Miis, but it will more than likely give us many facts to counter their arguments and eventually bring us to the beloved haven of #FreeMii.

To be completely honest, this probably will not develop the meta of the Miis too much, save for a few results that I've already discovered, but it will make it so much easier for people to understand the Miis and the way they work. Mii mains will still want to use 0/0 2122 Brawler more than likely, and that's awesome. That's probably the most optimal set (my current research shows that might not be true), but it will end so much arguing I feel.

If I had the proper equipment, my research would probably be done by the end of the month (or sooner), but since I don't (and I need to carve out time to actually do the research and present it in a neat and orderly way), I'm not going to give a finish date. But I will have everything finished and revealed by the end of the year.

Until then, just hold out and keep fighting for the Mii cause. We have custom movesets at MLG and that's honestly enough for me right now. But the thirst for knowledge never stops.

I recently opened a Twitter so I could start sharing my findings with people (no actual tweets yet), so every time I find something of value that needs to be shared immediately, I'll post it there. https://twitter.com/Arcaneaxcell

That's pretty much it for now. I'm probably going to make another thread in a week asking for some opinions/help, but it will mostly be for things such as combos and other basic Mii stuff. I won't be posting this in the other Mii threads for now since those threads are pretty dead compared to this one.

tl;dr I've made some discoveries that may help with the #FreeMii arguments, I will keep people updated on my findings.

Thanks if you actually read that. I really want to see the meta for Miis advance as I love playing both Brawler and Swordfighter.
 

GS3K

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I guess you could call it mii-search

*ba-dum tss* alright, alright I won't do that again.

Anyways, sounds good. If it'll help in the long run, take as much time as you need.
 

wizrad

Smash Journeyman
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Well, you certainly don't have to inspect all of the sizes for MLG, since it's guest only. Still, this will be a huge help to all of us. Thank you.
 

Ian Viola

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From my rough research from about 5 months ago I found what I believed to be best somewhere in the 25/0 area.
 

wizrad

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From my rough research from about 5 months ago I found what I believed to be best somewhere in the 25/0 area.
Why's that? Does the mobility not change after a certain point? Does the range outweigh the speed? All my Miis (of all types) are 0/0.
 

ArcaneAxcell

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 2, 2015
Messages
8
Quick update; Research is going much faster than planned, could be done by the end of the month after all.
Anyways, after some quick math I determined there are 17,424 (give or take) different variations of Miis (based on the ticks used to create them in Mii Maker).

However, regardless of the sheer amount of variables, the amount of varying results is surprisingly quite low. So far, less than 60, but that number will more than likely shrink the further I get into my research.

This number is a rough estimate but I believe there are only only a few variations of Height and Weight (only 3 actual weight catagories, Light, Medium, and Heavy, but other attributes are affected by weight) that actually effect the Mii noticeably (some differences are only noticeable through research and can't actually be seen in gameplay).

I'll be taking a research break tomorrow for Thanksgiving, but the day after I'll be picking right back up and doing some deeper examinations. Depending on how things go I may get a select few people to help with the research, so it goes faster.

I will share one thing that I've discovered that will be vital information to any Brawler mains at upcoming tournaments where they're restricted to 50/50. You can actually get a Helicopter Kick confirm off of a Dthrow, but the timing is very strict, and I mean VERY strict. I don't know the exact frames yet but if you're even a few frames too slow it could miss. You can't go for the Fair first though, you have to go straight from Dthrow to HK. Works between 40% and 90%. Easiest between 50% and 60%. 40% HK won't always kill, so be wary. This can also kill from Centre Stage closer to higher percents (60% and up I believe, not entirely sure if that's true though).

That's all for now.
 

wizrad

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Do you think it would be possible for you to create some sort of range vs speed chart for us?
 

ArcaneAxcell

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Aug 2, 2015
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8
Actually, I already plan for that to be included in my final product. I'll be showing off the speed, range, weight, etc of every size included in my research and I'll create a chart/list of best to worst, and which is overall the best size to use.
 
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Ian Viola

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Why's that? Does the mobility not change after a certain point? Does the range outweigh the speed? All my Miis (of all types) are 0/0.
The range is better and confirms into HK work better with the different jump height, while the loss in mobility is negligible.
It also feels more comfortable.
 

wizrad

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But don't you lose jump height with Mii height? I would think tiny would be best because the extra height lets D throw > HK kill later.
 

ArcaneAxcell

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Aug 2, 2015
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Quick update; After spending most of the day researching I've narrowed down the list of possible Mii sizes to the minimum possible number. I've also decided to cut my workload up a bit. I'm only going to be researching Mii Brawler from here on out, with Swordsman and Gunner coming in the future. The reason for this is that the different weights and heights effect each of the miis differently, therefore it would take me quite a long time to do it all. However the differences between each size will stay the same (for instance 0/0 being the fastest and 100/100 being the strongest) but the gaps between those differences could be bigger or smaller.

I've also decided that instead of doing a full analysis, completely dissecting the character, and trying to bring out its full potential, I'm only going to do logistics research. Such as frame data, attack and kill percentages, mobility and range comparisons, etc. This is the major data that will be needed to help in the argument of Mii Freedom, while still allowing other players in the community to work together to decipher the intricacies of the characters and create a more closely knit research team that will slowly help advance the Meta of these characters.

I will however be doing research on the Dthrow > Fair > HK to show people just how not overpowered it is.

In the future I will do full analysis of each Mii and try to determine the best way to optimize each of the Miis. But that's not needed to help us win the war.

Also, the jump height difference between 0/0 and 25/0 is mere PIXELS (in a short hop. It's noticeable in a full hop). And they land on almost the exact same frame, being maybe 6 frames apart at most. The time it takes to cross the stage is a little bigger but still not very noticeable unless slowed down. Range and hitbox size are the most notable difference and even that is minimal. For some reason 25/0 takes one percent longer to kill but that could be something messing up that I can't notice.

All for now.
 

wizrad

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O based ArcaneAxcell, what would your endless wisdom sayeth is the optimal size for someone who wants to kill as early as possible? Also, I sadly don't think that data and facts will change anyone's opinion on Miis. We already know DI-ing in completely renders Brawler useless, but everyone still thinks Helicopter Kick is 'OP' and 'jank'. There is a superstitious hate of our character because s/he is fundamentally different. The Miis are persecuted because the community doesn't want to accept something new. It's sad, the ingnorance of some.
 

ArcaneAxcell

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Aug 2, 2015
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I know, but perhaps when presented with cold, hard facts, they might just have to start taking us seriously. I hope to debunk all the arguments that the Mii haters have. I know they'll just find more, but they can't keep at it forever. Even ESAM said that we should experiment with them, and that's exactly what I'm doing.

After this research is finished, even logistics won't be a problem. Out of the very small amount of varying Mii sizes I've narrowed down to, only maybe like, a third of them are actually going to be competitively viable. That means all people have to do is scan like, 5-10 QR codes and we're golden. Not even all the moves are viable either so that's less people have to learn.

Also I'd recommend 25/25. I personally think it's the best, but there's still more testing to be done. Its mobility, frame data, and combos are almost identical to 0/0, except it has more range, more weight (dies like 5% later but still), more killing power (again, like, 5%. Less probably), and damage (very minimal, I'm talking decimals, but adds up in the long run). I find HK confirms much easier at low percents and can still work up until decently high ones. I've killed with Dthrow > Fair > HK at like 45% at center stage (it might've been luck, but it still happened). It also feels much more realistic and controllable. Something about it, probably the slight mobility loss, but it's so insignificant your opponent won't notice it (you will because it feels different).

Just because I think it's the best though doesn't mean it will be the best for everyone. I'm sure there are people out there who use 50/50 as their preferred size (which I don't understand), but for me personally, when I'm playing with friends/at locals, I'll always use 25/25 if it's available.
 
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wizrad

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Well, see, TOs won't even allow us one non-guest Mii, never mind 5-10. Can 25/25 pull off D throw/tilt > fair > fair > HK like tiny can? And what do you mean by 25/25, anyways? 25 slider clicks or one quarter of the slider? They're different. I think we should go by slider clicks.
 

ArcaneAxcell

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Good idea, going by slider clicks would be much easier. In that case I believe it's 33/33. Also I think it can do the double Fair. It has the same frame data as 0/0 I believe (maybe like, a single frame or two difference.). I've never tested it though.

Edit: Can't do the double Fair. You fall just slightly too fast and miss it. I feel the earlier killing of Dthrow > Fair > HK makes up for this though.

Lose one thing, gain another.

And the problem most TOs have (from personal experience) is they don't like the idea of having hundreds of possible sizes and people taking forever to upload their personal Miis onto the Wii U. Yeah there are the TOs who are just flat out banning Miis but that's not all of them. Maybe if we can prove to people that there's not 17,000+ difference sizes and we convince people to put the small amount of Miis on their console they won't have to worry about time constraints anymore. It won't immediately make everyone in favor of Miis but it'll change the opinions of some people. Baby steps.
 
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ArcaneAxcell

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Aug 2, 2015
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0/0 might be the best Mii Brawler still, but 0/33, 33/0, and 33/33 I feel are all very close in terms of viability.

Swordsman definitely benefits greatly off of the increased range so 33/0 or 33/33 might be the best.

Still determining for Gunner, I'm thinking it's probably gonna be the same as Swordsman, but I can see going up to 64 (50) in terms of weight will still be viable for them.

Still gonna do the research on all sizes though. You can never know too much.
 

wizrad

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Are you in the Mii Skype group? I know we'd all be willing to help you out, if possible.
 

ArcaneAxcell

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I don't use Skype anymore, not after some... Incidents, with friends. I should make a new one though.

Help would be nice, but it's not necessary.
 
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