Huge damage potential of white pikmin

[Evazan]

I am kind of baffled that I haven't seen any mention on the insane amount of damage the white pikmin do. When I get a white pikmin to latch on it does 6% damage per hit and can total 60% if it stays on the whole time. In the NC Echo guide I didn't even read that the whites do more damage then the others. I am kind of confused on why this has gotten 0 mention on these forums.

 

[Maliceschaos]

white pikmen have extremely low health. So it will only do initial damage, nothing much on latch since they shrug off easily.

 

[Yakt-NJ]

I find that whites are best when I don't have any purples in the party. That way, I can toss them on from the air and quickly grab them when I hit the ground. This is possible to do with a purple after the white, but the higher grab range of red and yellow and especially blue make this easier with no purples. Whites are really great for messing people up because they are anxious to get it off of them and it can sometimes cause an opponent to attack and "miss" you, leaving you open to go in for the grab or the fair.

 

[snowbonez]

I am kind of baffled that I haven't seen any mention on the insane amount of damage the white pikmin do. When I get a white pikmin to latch on it does 6% damage per hit and can total 60% if it stays on the whole time. In the NC Echo guide I didn't even read that the whites do more damage then the others. I am kind of confused on why this has gotten 0 mention on these forums.

HOW BOUT THE BLACKS...YOU EFFIN RACIST!!!

 

[Ledger_Damayn]

You'd have to be... completely ignorant to let a white pikmin do full damage. It's probably one of the main reasons it gets little mention.

Plus, I was under the impression that this was common knowledge. I guess not

 

[IllidR]

Zero mention on the forums? This is common knowledge to any Olimar player. The reason why it's not blown out of proportion is because the chance that you'll get a white to stay on an enemy for more than one hit is slim to none.

 

[Dark Ryu]

Zero mention on the forums? This is common knowledge to any Olimar player. The reason why it's not blown out of proportion is because the chance that you'll get a white to stay on an enemy for more than one hit is slim to none.

Definatley Agree with IllidR.

 

[TrueRedemption]

Potential and possibility are two commonly swapped concepts. Possibilities can happen, and can be argued that in some parallel universe and absolutely theory crafted situation something you found AMAZING in training mode actually would impact a real game. Potential is raw unshaped power that is going to make a difference any time its used correctly against an unplugged controller the same as a tourney hardened pro. Guess which one white pikmin raking up more than 12% damage is?

Now that thats cleared up, on to something worth discussing. Yes, they are obviously intended entirely for latch purposes. So if you have on in the 2nd position, and a total of 5 pikmin plucked, two yellows at 1 and 4, a blue at 3, and a purple at 5, how are you going to attempt to KO a Diddy at 16% on Battlefield? Times up...

The point of that last paragraph is to try and broaden many Olimar's horizons. The future of olimar play doesn't lie in possibilities, or the heavy weight individual moves or attributes have. You can't win a match by whistle super armor -ing the other guy to death no better than you can win a game only using USmash, nor 60% done by a full length white pikmin (which by the way is incorrect as pikmin stay on for varying lengths depending on the % of your opponent when initially latched, if you read echo's guide...) The future of Olimar as the entire community starts getting a grasp on our respective "mains" is defined by either brilliant improvisation, or intense mental application and rehearsal of the details. If Brawl does in fact become competative, I foresee it taking more than roundabout good use of Olimar's strong points to land any olimar main in the top. I expect they are going to have to know exactly the pikmin order they have at all times, followed by its strengths and weaknesses by move, not just in general, but most importantly not only processing all this throughout the game, but using the order they have at the moment to string together an evolving play style determined not by what the user is good at but what colors come out of the ground in what order. Call me crazy, but this is what makes olimar "among the most specialized characters within the cast of Smash Brothers Brawl. In order to really unleash Olimar’s full potential, you’ve got to have a good knowledge of his helpful cohorts, the Pikmin!" (Smash Bros DOJO)

So, first person to answer my situation above gets a cookie, but you've gotta explain why you did each move with each pikmin and why it'd work =)


-True

 

[rofl_jack]

I am kind of confused on why this has gotten 0 mention on these forums.

There is no mention of it because all already know, and its not that big of a deal, seeing how keeping a white pikmin on someone long enough to do full damage is impossible. fairs ftw.

 

[Evazan]

Ok, everyone knows that white pikmin do more damage but I think everone also knows what his Forward Smash is so why is the forward smash in NC-Echos guide but the fact that white do more damage isn't. I am aware that it is unlikely for a white pikmin to do full damage but if it stays on for even 2 seconds it will do more then a regular pikmin.

From NC-Echos guide

.White

* When thrown it flies faster and farther than others.
* Has less survivability than all other pikmin.
* Weight=light

F-special (Latch)

* Description: Olimar throws a pikmin forward. When the pikmin hit the enemy they latch and swing the head into the opponent (similar to throw hit) 8 to 10 times or until knocked off. It takes Olimar about 2 ¾ sec. to throw 6 pikmin.
* Uses: This move makes Olimar. You can rack up some really good damage with this move and it’s really good to keep your opponents busy. If you’re not doing anything else I recommend spamming this move. To probably take advantage of this move you will need to get used to the distance each pikmin flies and the arcs they follow. I find this move is best used out of a jump.
* Range: 10
* Knock-back: 4 (with purple)



Shouldn't it at least be mentioned in the guide that white do more damage, or does everyone just know that and know how to utilize that aspect already?

I also think that it is important to realize that once you get a white pikmin latched on, your opponent must focus on removing it if he doesn't want to have a serious amount of damage dealt. This has the potential of leaving him open to other attacks. I haven't tested this but I feel like that whites also hit faster then the other pikmin once they are latched on.

I wasn't trying to say that white pikmin are unbeatable. I was just wondering why the difference in damage wasn't mentioned anywhere as I do believe it has potential.

 

[Sudai]

Potential and possibility are two commonly swapped concepts. Possibilities can happen, and can be argued that in some parallel universe and absolutely theory crafted situation something you found AMAZING in training mode actually would impact a real game. Potential is raw unshaped power that is going to make a difference any time its used correctly against an unplugged controller the same as a tourney hardened pro. Guess which one white pikmin raking up more than 12% damage is?

Now that thats cleared up, on to something worth discussing. Yes, they are obviously intended entirely for latch purposes. So if you have on in the 2nd position, and a total of 5 pikmin plucked, two yellows at 1 and 4, a blue at 3, and a purple at 5, how are you going to attempt to KO a Diddy at 16% on Battlefield? Times up...

The point of that last paragraph is to try and broaden many Olimar's horizons. The future of olimar play doesn't lie in possibilities, or the heavy weight individual moves or attributes have. You can't win a match by whistle super armor -ing the other guy to death no better than you can win a game only using USmash, nor 60% done by a full length white pikmin (which by the way is incorrect as pikmin stay on for varying lengths depending on the % of your opponent when initially latched, if you read echo's guide...) The future of Olimar as the entire community starts getting a grasp on our respective "mains" is defined by either brilliant improvisation, or intense mental application and rehearsal of the details. If Brawl does in fact become competative, I foresee it taking more than roundabout good use of Olimar's strong points to land any olimar main in the top. I expect they are going to have to know exactly the pikmin order they have at all times, followed by its strengths and weaknesses by move, not just in general, but most importantly not only processing all this throughout the game, but using the order they have at the moment to string together an evolving play style determined not by what the user is good at but what colors come out of the ground in what order. Call me crazy, but this is what makes olimar "among the most specialized characters within the cast of Smash Brothers Brawl. In order to really unleash Olimar’s full potential, you’ve got to have a good knowledge of his helpful cohorts, the Pikmin!" (Smash Bros DOJO)

So, first person to answer my situation above gets a cookie, but you've gotta explain why you did each move with each pikmin and why it'd work =)


-True

I completely agree. As for your scenario.

-FAir the first yellow to the back.
-Toss white on him shortly before landing. Land in range to grab.
-Grab with blue. Hit 1-2 times, letting the white rack on damage.
-DThrow
-SHUAir dragging them close to the ground with the yellow.
-DThrow again.
-Carry them up with a UAir using purple pikmen.
-Double Jump Up-B with the purple at the end for the KO.

If you need more reasoning, I can elaborate.

 

[NC-Echo]

Shouldn't it at least be mentioned in the guide that white do more damage, or does everyone just know that and know how to utilize that aspect already?

It is mentioned in the guide; check the damage table.

 

[TrueRedemption]

Loved it Sudai =) its exactly what i was talking about. Not to say in any way this is the best option to do with that setup, or that there even will be "best options" for each lineup to know/figure out/memorize or whatever, but the idea of using strengths as linked as possible I feel makes a big difference. I can't remember who posted it where, but someone mentioned a correctly spaced smash attack being foiled and consequently punished simply because it was a purple with less range. Same idea, primarily learning to avoid trouble, secondarily using it to your advantage. Its not going to easy, I doubt any of us (barring NC-Echo perhaps) are going to be able to do this fully within the week, but I think it'd be interesting to see just big of a difference it makes. I mean even just doing some true combo we find could be drastically different depending on the pikmin lineup. There was talk a while ago that the textbook combo could actually be a combo, depending on the colors setup. Don't know if it would actually work, but i'm sure theres noticeable differences with different colors, it'd be an easy place to start and figure things out. Odds are it should be made a new thread, and I'm not positive exactly how to go about working on this yet, I'm sure we can though.


-True


*Edit* Nearly forgot! I hereby award Sudai 1 cookie, redeemable at any time it may be delivered. Delivery may only be by hand at any time which we happen to cross paths. Cookie type is chosen by the winner but must be reasonably readily available.

 

[Sudai]

Peanut Butter cookie, and I'm looking forward to it. I've been paying attention to the pikmen line-up ever since I realized white went further and yellow flew at a different trajectory than the rest. There's so many possible combos.. We have to worry about DI, positioning, knockback degree based on positioning, and pickmen color for our combos. It'll take a true mind to master Olimar. : )

 

[VagrantGhost]

I definitely agree with using pikmin strategically, but I don't think it's ever going to be so easy as the previously mentioned diddy scenario. One blocked or dodged pikmin and suddenly your master plan is out of whack. Paying special attention to your pikmin is good only in a cursory sense, and I say this because I believe keeping yourself to a few moves and set combos based on pikmin order is actually limiting yourself rather than improving yourself. There is no golden pikmin order that will guarantee a KO, because you're playing a human opponent who can improvise in the same capacity that you can.

That's not to say we shouldn't be paying very close attention to what pikmin we have available so we can avoid doing silly things like trying to grab with a purple, I just have my reservations about what True proposed. Perhaps in quite some time there will be some ridiculous people who really can enact the diddy scenario, and who's to say there won't be? As for myself, I'll be practicing.

Cheers, and thanks for an interesting discussion.

 

[Diver]

I completely agree. As for your scenario.

-FAir the first yellow to the back.
-Toss white on him shortly before landing. Land in range to grab.
-Grab with blue. Hit 1-2 times, letting the white rack on damage.
-DThrow
-SHUAir dragging them close to the ground with the yellow.
-DThrow again.
-Carry them up with a UAir using purple pikmen.
-Double Jump Up-B with the purple at the end for the KO.

If you need more reasoning, I can elaborate.

Thats beautiful !
In an actual situation I don't think I would have ever thought about that, especially not the up + b at the end

 

[Ultimatum479]

Aside from, as mentioned, grabbing your opponent and/or otherwise distracting him/her to allow the White Pikmin time to do more damage, the primary use of a White Pikmin is as a really long-range distraction. As other posters have stated, people don't let White Pikmin keep doing damage to them. They'll start attacking and knock the Pikmin away quickly. While they're doing that, you kill them. ^_^ People are a lot more likely to ignore a latched Blue, Red, or Yellow and just go after you than a White.

 

[nyhustler208]

I completely agree. As for your scenario.

-FAir the first yellow to the back.
-Toss white on him shortly before landing. Land in range to grab.
-Grab with blue. Hit 1-2 times, letting the white rack on damage.
-DThrow
-SHUAir dragging them close to the ground with the yellow.
-DThrow again.
-Carry them up with a UAir using purple pikmen.
-Double Jump Up-B with the purple at the end for the KO.

If you need more reasoning, I can elaborate.

wow this really nice strat, i never thought of it like this

reading this has now switched my whole oli mind set now imma come up with some more ideas and post them