How will Sakurai change Brawl?

[SamuraiPanda]

Well, I've been thinking about these two things off and on for awhile now, so I figured I might as well share what I'm thinking with everyone else.

First off, character replacement predictions. Its no lie to say that Wario looks like G&W and ZSS looks like Sheik. Based on this, I can easily see Sakurai removing characters from Melee but putting characters that play very similarly to them in Brawl. This way he is essentially remaking old characters with a new skin, but because they are different characters, he can change their attacks, too.

I definitely see ZSS replacing Sheik and Wario replacing G&W. I could even see someone like Ice Climbers replaced by the Baby Mario Bros (they both use hammers in the DS RPG). Sakurai will be able to "keep" a character that people have grown to love from Melee but change their moveset drastically.


Secondly, I've been thinking of how Brawl is going to be balanced. I don't think that the Wii allows patching games (correct me if I'm wrong, which I really hope I am) so I'm assuming the balance is going to have to be done all in-house.

Think of how Sakurai balanced 64 to Melee. Ness and Kirby, the two best characters, were nerfed to hell. So characters people consider "overpowered" in 64 were nerfed in Melee. Meaning I'm going to keep an eye on what he'll do with Fox. Not only that, but a very pervasive view is that the best characters in Melee are the fastest characters. I'm curious to see how he intends to balance slow vs fast in Brawl, since I don't believe he did a very good job with that in Melee.

BUT I don't predict all doom and gloom. Sakurai is quite aware of how big the competitive Melee has become, and this will no doubt affect how he approaches the balancing of Brawl. Take a look at alot of the new stages that were previewed. Many of them have changing environments which didn't affect gameplay, and the platform setup seems quite even, too.

Thats all I can think of now although I'm pretty sure I was thinking of more stuff. I know these topics are probably a dime a dozen, but I just wanted to get that off my chest.

 

[Adi]

3rd times a charm, hopefully the character difference won't be as bad as before and even if it does exist initially it will be fixed through patches.

 

[Caleb Wolfbrand]

I find Melee to be fairly balanced myself. I understand what you're saying about speed being top in that game though. I do expect Fox to take a big hit, and Marth if he returns, too.

I will miss G-W if he's gone. As for me I don't think Zamus is too much like Sheik... but maybe that's just her air dynamics that confuse me. I dunno... I hope the Climbers stay as well.

 

[Classic-Black]

3rd times a charm, hopefully the character difference won't be as bad as before and even if it does exist initially it will be fixed through patches.

Brawl is an MMO now? Seriously when has the Big N patched games on the Wii, it's not gonna happen.

I don't think that balancing will resuly in the nerfing of the top tier, but puts all the characters on more equal footing, making it so the player has to rely more on exploiting a characters weakness/strength to their advantage than just picking a top tier from Melee

 

[Adi]

Brawl is an MMO now? Seriously when has the Big N patched games on the Wii, it's not gonna happen.

I don't think that balancing will resuly in the nerfing of the top tier, but puts all the characters on more equal footing, making it so the player has to rely more on exploiting a characters weakness/strength to their advantage than just picking a top tier from Melee

Seriously how long has WiFi Connectivity with Wii games been out...never. Considering this it isn't hard to imagine why patches haven't been implemented yet.. Any game that has online capabilities is bound to recieve patches at some point, whether it be as drastic as new characters or very small bug fixes I guarantee with a game like Brawl they will have a team doing things like that.

 

[squaminator]

they used to just d different versions of the game to fix things like links super jump or bowser's flame cancelling. i can see them using patching instead.

 

[Classic-Black]

Seriously how long has WiFi Connectivity with Wii games been out...never. Considering this it isn't hard to imagine why patches haven't been implemented yet.. Any game that has online capabilities is bound to recieve patches at some point, whether it be as drastic as new characters or very small bug fixes I guarantee with a game like Brawl they will have a team doing things like that.

as opposed to just making a new game? Patches will sometimes create new problems, so I doubt Brawl, or any game will be patched in that fashion. Patching the game constantly would probably be more hassle than just making a new one, and nerfed characters aren't something that is normally patched except in MMO's because of constant *****ing. If other games recieve patches I'll revise my statement, but i'm pretty sure it's not going to happen. Techically they could, but they probably won't.

 

[<π]

Seriously how long has WiFi Connectivity with Wii games been out...never. Considering this it isn't hard to imagine why patches haven't been implemented yet.. Any game that has online capabilities is bound to recieve patches at some point, whether it be as drastic as new characters or very small bug fixes I guarantee with a game like Brawl they will have a team doing things like that.

Mmm... I don't think it will be like that.

A team of peopel dedicated to fixing bugs and making patches cost money, and while it may not be a ton it is in the end money you are spending without gain profit on it. A lot of teh reason you see other online games get patches is because there is some sort of monthly fee attached to it. It's that fee that pays the people creating patches and ultimately give the person the right to get their moneys worth in the first place.

Now The smash serise as a whole has been (I think) one of the most balance series out there. Since the get go they've laid down such a solid fondation that even things that changed the game as much as wave dashing weren't enough to break the game upon being discovered. I'm sure brawl will proablly fall down the same route.

 

[Infil]

This game will not be patched, I can assure you of that. Knowing how Nintendo handles these things (and also as a game developer myself), patching will not be an option. But that's okay, because Nintendo will likely create a "good enough" balance for us. I'd say if one-third of the roster can be used in tournaments successfully (at minimum), that is "good balance". Few fighting games have such balance... Melee and 3rd Strike are two that come to mind.

EDIT - Actually, Melee's ratio may be closer to one-half of the characters. I know for sure that 3rd Strike is almost the entire roster, which is amazing when you think about it. But I have no doubts in Sakurai's ability to balance this game satisfactorally.

 

[Classic-Black]

Mmm... I don't think it will be like that.

A team of peopel dedicated to fixing bugs and making patches cost money, and while it may not be a ton it is in the end money you are spending without gain profit on it. A lot of teh reason you see other online games get patches is because there is some sort of monthly fee attached to it. It's that fee that pays the people creating patches and ultimately give the person the right to get their moneys worth in the first place.

The other thing is, exaclty where are these patched going to be stored? The Internal 512 mb of memory, an SD card which you would, more than likely, have to transfer to the Wii memory in order to use (much like the VC.) because it certainly can't go on the disk itself. That's another major reason that patches aren't likely. and <3 brought up time, effort and money.

anyways, I'm sure Sakurai will create the game in the same mold as Melee and 64, easy to pick up bust difficuly to master, while trying to balance out the characters more evenly (and maybe eliminating the disjointed hitboxes.)

 

[<π]

This game will not be patched, I can assure you of that. Knowing how Nintendo handles these things (and also as a game developer myself), patching will not be an option. But that's okay, because Nintendo will likely create a "good enough" balance for us. I'd say if one-third of the roster can be used in tournaments successfully (at minimum), that is "good balance". Few fighting games have such balance... Melee and 3rd Strike are two that come to mind.

EDIT - Actually, Melee's ratio may be closer to one-half of the characters. I know for sure that 3rd Strike is almost the entire roster, which is amazing when you think about it. But I have no doubts in Sakurai's ability to balance this game satisfactorally.

I never really thought about it but all of the charcaters in thrid strike are pretty popular... I'm definitely going to have to get more into that game...
And also, just out of curiosity who are you developing games for? I'm In shcool for game design and development so I'm always on the look out for game designers and programers.

The other thing is, exaclty where are these patched going to be stored? The Internal 512 mb of memory, an SD card which you would, more than likely, have to transfer to the Wii memory in order to use (much like the VC.)

A very good point 512 mb isn't enough to store the tons of texture, sound and music data that would be nesseasry for new levels and charaters. And while it wouldn't be as big a deal to change small things like damage knockback frame speed... why make patches for it when you can test and balance from the begining...

Just not worth it.

 

[ecstatic]

I bet the only things they'll change will be the differences of the different versions of Melee... which isn't that big of a deal.

 

[Infil]

To expand more on SamuraiPanda's original post, I agree with his character assessments. I think that Wario is the "new" G&W in terms of style, and that ZSS could very well be a Sheik-like character in the sense that there will be two characters wrapped into one (however that ends up working). Sakurai will be able to keep ideas for characters which we like (a Marth-like swordsman, a dual Ice Climbers-like character, among many others), and at the same time, change everything else about them. I think this is one of Sakurai's big strengths, which is why I'm not holding out for Marth's return to Brawl. Instead, we could very well get the character Marth would have become in Brawl, just with a different character's skin. And, we will think this is a new character and love how he plays and all this.

It's great character design to do this. You get to keep the best of the old and integrate the best of the new. Plus, then you don't have people saying "Marth was nerfed" or whatnot. Instead, you'll say "this character plays similar to Marth, but is not as strong", and he will be judged on his own merits. And, at the same time, we get a bunch of fresh faces and new ideas for these characters that might not have worked with an updated Marth; the game will feel very new and unexplored. It's one of the few ways you can have total freedom of creativity, but maintain a sense of nostalgia and familiarity.

Oh, and when I say I'm a game developer, I should predicate that by saying I've developed a few small games, including one for a games course at University (under the supervision of Radical Entertainment). Nothing big or commercial, but I've made a "full" game from start to finish, so I have a lot more insight as to how games are made than the average person. The experience is both pleasant and extremely UNpleasant at the same time.

 

[Jump20X6]

I don't know that much about patches, but I'd think that a small bug fix wouldn't be out of the question for Brawl.

As for the characters, I have noticed the similarities between ZSS and Sheik. A lot of the moves look almost identical. I'd be nice if someone took some screenshots showing the parallels. Now that I think about it, Wario did move kind of like G&W. I think it's certainly possible for those characters to be replaced. I do like the ICs, but I think it would be great fun to play as the Babies.

 

[FreakoFreako]

I don't really think they'll do patches.. At least not big ones. Maybe little glitches.

Oh and I was watching that Old Trailer.. And... did anyone else notice that Metaknight and Pit jumped 4 times? I don't know, I found it interesting. >.>

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

I don't really think they'll do patches.. At least not big ones. Maybe little glitches.

Oh and I was watching that Old Trailer.. And... did anyone else notice that Metaknight and Pit jumped 4 times? I don't know, I found it interesting. >.>

Um...Wings?

 

[Subster]

Its no lie to say that Wario looks like G&W and ZSS looks like Sheik

also i think snake looks like samus with those kicks and rocket/samus down smash

 

[Diddy Kong]

I actually believe Wario and ZSS are the replacement characters for GAW and Sheik... But that's a whole diffrent story.

I hope Sakurai changes Brawl for the good. Keep the SHFFLing, perhaps wavedashing and add some new features. I'm actually pretty excited for better aerial fights!

 

[Caleb Wolfbrand]

Its no lie to say that Wario looks like G&W and ZSS looks like Sheik

also i think snake looks like samus with those kicks and rocket/samus down smash

It's Samus' down tilt actually... and I haven't seen much similarities. Samus does not have that weird drop kick Snake does in the air (she does on the ground though) and that strange axe handle smash he does... I'm just saying...