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How to punish characters recovering low?

Red Dress

Knight in Rusty Armor
Joined
Apr 21, 2014
Messages
18
Location
Stratford, CT
As fox, how do you punish characters recovering low?

I suppose "shine" is going to be the majority of the answer, but when I try I get UpBed and lose a stock from being "stagespiked". I particularly have trouble when a Marth recovers low.
 

magister54

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 13, 2013
Messages
76
Location
Boston, MA
3DS FC
2882-0961-9677
Yea I mean, use your shine spike or just do a classic ledge guard. Wave dash or jump down to grab edge. You can do a side/up b to change up your edge grab timing (Phantom Stall and Infinite Firebird). Just work on your timing mostly.
 

Nuclear-Cheese

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 10, 2013
Messages
3
Grab ledge then when he Up-Bs either hit L or R to roll onto stage or hit left/right to stand up from ledge. He will then be edgehogged.

You can also just stand at the edge of the stage the grab the ledge the exact moment he tries to but it's a little more risky.
 

krazyzyko

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 12, 2005
Messages
2,126
Location
El Carajo, Puerto Rico
To get to the edge: SHRL, WD, Moonwalk, Side B sweetspot and shine turnaround > firefox are the most used.

With the edge's invincibility shine spike. Firefox ledgestall to refresh invincibility.

If it's to late to get to the edge you can Fsmash, Dsmash, drill or down tilt. Down tilt for Peach and do the Marth killer against Marth.
 
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Boomhound

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 11, 2014
Messages
121
Location
Cork, Ireland
Easiest solution is to Dsmash haha. If that's teched follow with a shine then. (vs Marth avoid his upB first then walk up Dsmash)
Also you can wave-dash to the ledge and shine while you're invincible. (Works vs Marth)
The first method I learned however was to do a rising bair from the ledge if their position allows a hit. (Not good vs Marth)

Simply rolling from ledge or punishing his un-sweetspotted upB with a Fsmash will ruin Marth.
 

Impact009

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 5, 2006
Messages
207
Location
The Woodlands, Texas
Marth is one of the trickest characters to edgeguard if he still has his midair jump, and it's something that even Hax has trouble against. Unsweet-spotted recoveries have already been covered here, so I'll talk about sweet-spotted recoveries.

If you're on the ledge and roll onto the stage too early, then Marth can just stall with his second jump and sweet spot the ledge after the edgehog period is over. In this case, do what krazyzyko said: grab the ledge right before his Dolphin Slash can hit you, and use that invincibility to shinespike him. You're not going to be able to edgeguard sweetspotted Dolphin Slash from the stage by conventional means, because his disjoint hitbox will reach through your DSmash's lower invincibility and still hit you.

If he stalls with his midair jump, then just tap your control stick to get onto the stage normally without rolling and get ready to light shield. If he Dolphin Slashes you to try and hit you away, then you can punish him out of shield. If he goes for a sweetspot, then tilt your lightshield to the ledge and edgehog him.

Ideally, however, you want to grab the ledge as late as you can against Marth while it's still safe so that you don't get stage spiked. Use those invincibility frames to drop down and shine or do a rising Bair from under him if he's slightly too far away. Use judgement, and don't overexert to the point that he can hit you out of your invincibility frames. Additionally, you can stall on the ledge with Firefox (tap away and quickly up+B), but you only have one frame to do it perfectly. The slower you are, the more frames you'll be vulnerable on.
 

Boomhound

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 11, 2014
Messages
121
Location
Cork, Ireland
Can't believe I forgot the 'Marth killer' lol.
As Impact009 mentioned use light-shield at the ledge and hold towards the ledge as you get hit to edge-hog an un-sweetspotted upB.
To set this up easier simply roll to the tip of the ledge and hold either L or R while rolling to enter light-shield.
 

Impact009

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 5, 2006
Messages
207
Location
The Woodlands, Texas
Marth Killer will work against sweet-spotted Dolphin Slashes as a fastfaller and even as certain floaties if they fastfall quickly enough. It's just really situational, though.
 
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