How to Play "Safe" with Peach's Shield Pressure

[DiNoahsaur]

Hey everyone,

Hopefully this thread will compile the Peach community's knowledge on how to maximize Peach's "safe" attack options.

I've been having some trouble figuring out the right way to fully capitalize on Peach's amazing shield pressure. I think a lot of it comes down to my confusion regarding the way each of her attacks affect my opponents positions when shielding.

Now, I know "safe" is a very loaded term--and "safety" isn't a 100% guaranteed result on even her side-b. What I am looking to explore is how to manipulate Peach's momentum and direction, when attacking an opponent's shield, to create the most optimal spacing between her and the opponent.

Some questions I hope this thread can answer are:
--When are opponent's knocked back when shielding vs. remaining in place?
--How does retreating momentum vs advancing moment affect this?
--Which attacks produce significant space between you and the opponent.... when? Why?

I feel discussing general shield physics might be helpful to start off the conversation....

 

[Awesomecakes]

Shield pushback, and what to go for on shield is pretty matchup dependant imo. The two factors i'm looking for is the characters' OOS game, and their shield pushback (which is character dependant).

Though most characters don't really have much variants in shield pushback, it can make a difference. The two characters on the opposite ends of the spectum are luigi and Ryu. Ryu I feel like has the least shield pushback in the entire game (i think), making spacing around his shield harder. Luigi on the other hand slides on every hit. With luigi, Fair on shield is perfectly safe. The pushback means he can't shorthop Fair if you're above him, and can't run up/grab if you're in front (though fireball still might hit or at least setup for a mixup). Ryu doesn't give a **** about shield pressure cause you'd have a hard time pushing him back so the safer on shield options area bad idea (like Bair)

Characters with quick options out of shield have a better time punishing Peach's shield options. But a knowledge of what their quick options are will give you an idea of what you should be looking out for when you do attack a shield and what you should go for. For instance, ROB has a quick down smash that covers all around him, so Nair on shield - even from behind- is generally unsafe if they're gonna go for that down smash. Speaking of, if you can cross-up on shield its generally worth it to go for, since most characters' quick options OOS are jabs/grabs which only come out in front. Being behind them when going for Nair, Bair or like falling/shorthop Dair on shield is very beneficial since it'll make everything they do slower and more likely to pick a defensive option. But again you need to watch out for what options a character has to choose which move to use. For instance, Ryu again has a great up tilt that is fast, has a great hitbox and comboes into stuff making Dair pressure a bad idea. Be aware of certain options when picking your moves on shield.

Another option for semi-safe shield pressure are like Auto-cancel fair. Its good cause it covers a jump option and you can space it so that you Fair with the very tip of it, and fade back to land lagless so they can't punish. With the Shield nerf, Fair is better on shield, and it does 15% which means it has better shieldstun that any of peach's other moves besides like stitchface. Though again, be aware of characters with good dash attacks, like fox, metaknight, yoshi, zss which come out really fast or have great range/can combo into stuff.

 

[DiNoahsaur]

By "Auto-cancel fair" do you mean, Float Canceled Fair? Or something else?

 

[Unclesatan]

By "Auto-cancel fair" do you mean, Float Canceled Fair? Or something else?

when an aerial "autocancels" it means when you hit the ground the game pretends you never used the aerial and acts as if you landed without even doing an aerial. every aerial has autocancel windows, some being more useful than others. peaches fair autocancels between frames 1-9 and after frame 41, meaning that once you use fair you have to wait for 41 frames (approx 2/3 of a second) before you hit the ground, or else your move won't autocancel.

float-cancelled fairs are different.

http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Peach

here is peach's frame data. you can view each aerial's autocancel frames amongst various other things here

 

[DiNoahsaur]

Thanks for the explanation!

So, to see if I am understanding you.... for timing and spacing reasons, you suggest retreating while performing a falling Fair executed from typical “short hop floating ‘Dair’ height” (in other words, the height typically used to execute floating Dairs on the opponent’s shield)?


Why retreat in this instance? - > So that when peach lands, it is much more likely that she will create enough space between her and the opponent that her then (likely) auto-cancelled Fair allows her to react ‘safely’?

 

[Unclesatan]

Thanks for the explanation!

So, to see if I am understanding you.... for timing and spacing reasons, you suggest retreating while performing a falling Fair executed from typical “short hop floating ‘Dair’ height” (in other words, the height typically used to execute floating Dairs on the opponent’s shield)?


Why retreat in this instance? - > So that when peach lands, it is much more likely that she will create enough space between her and the opponent that her then (likely) auto-cancelled Fair allows her to react ‘safely’?

You fade away because the fair causes immense shield stun and you're able to autocancel it before the opponent leaves shield stun, so you would be correct sir

 

[Awesomecakes]

fading away puts you farther away from your opponent when you land. Though I guess I should have been more specific about auto-cancel fair, most don't typically do it falling from a float, this will give you landing lag. What I meant was when you short-hop and fair as you're rising, the timing is pretty much to do it as soon as you jump. Executed correctly you'll land a little bit before you'd regularly be able to act out of Fair, but without the landing lag of the move.

With it, you can jump in, hit them with the tip of the Fair, and fade back to where you were standing. It's more of a spacing tool, used when your opponent is at a distance rather than "shield pressure" but it is a safe way of hitting shield in case you don't connect. Strategically you can use it if your opponent is landing with an aerial, punish a tilt or a smash attack from a long range, or if they are on the ground and you think they'll jump. You may also be able to shield poke with this, if the opponent's shield is low.

Though what I said regarding to luigi in my original post was Fair in float on shield. The "pressure" here is that luigi will be tempted to jump up and hit you, but since you're in float you can move away from their attack and punish what they do. If you think they will attack, you can hit them with the Fair and if they don't your fair will hit the shield instead and you'll be safe anyway. Luigi has the hardest time punishing that kind of Fair on shield, but other characters like Ryu may be able to chase you easier.